Starter Motor Issue?

[sicasey]

Help please

I'm the latest owner (day 2) of a 2002 S2 111S and I'm having an intermittent issue with starting.

Pretty much every other time I go to start the car, I get a 'click' and there's no attempt by the starter motor to turn the engine.

After a number of tries (typically 4-6) the starter motor engages and it's business as usual.

The previous owner did mention that he'd recently changed the battery and that it had been kept on trickle charge.

My gut feeling is that it's got to be a starter motor issue and not battery (solenoid not engaging possibly)?

I'm no mechanic and completely lack the tools however, would the general consensus point towards a starter motor issue, given that the battery is fairly new?

Any guidance would be greatly received.

[thebraketester]

Could be a relay issue?

[sicasey]

How could I go about getting this tested please?

[BertBert]

If you have no tools then you'll need a garage or car electrician to work on it.
I have no experience in this in the Elise, but in the caterham with the k series engine then it's commonly the solenoid as it is close to the exhaust and eventually the heat gets to it.
Having the starter solenoid refurbished by a starter expert would probably solve it. But with no tools, you'll have to get someone to do it for you.

[sicasey]

I'm assuming that the solenoid is part of the overall starter motor unit?

[Jim H]

Yeah, solenoid is part of the starter motor. Mine does the same thing, bloody annoying. S2 K similar vintage. I put it down to infrequent use.

It’s been one of those jobs i keep putting off.

[stevieturbo]

Could be battery, could be any battery cables/ground cables, could be the starter itself....only way to know is to look and test.

[sicasey]

Thanks all, I appreciate the input.

[Jim H]

Si, in my 20 years plus ownership my Elise has eaten batteries. I’ll be well into double figures now. Initially I just used to leave it for weeks / months sometimes without out use. The alarm and immobiliser would drain it in no time. Modern batteries don’t like going to low and it’s hard to resurrect them.

Also, the Elise battery is both small in size and capacity so it doesn’t take a lot to drain them. I fitted a battery cut off switch to the positive terminal and this helped. Having said that you’ve now cut off power to the alarm imo. There are workarounds though with better switches. Mine is always in a locked garage so it’s never bothered me.

If you are reasonably certain the battery is good, I’d be thinking more starter motor. Like I’ve said, mine does it and I’m sure it’s a duff solenoid that doesn’t get used often.

I think I looked at starter motors on the Elise parts site and they were not that expensive. But that was a couple of years ago when everything was less expensive. I got the shock of my life yesterday when I got a timing belt kit for my Corrado £110! These were no more than £60 a few years ago.

[sicasey]

Jim H said:

Si, in my 20 years plus ownership my Elise has eaten batteries. I’ll be well into double figures now. Initially I just used to leave it for weeks / months sometimes without out use. The alarm and immobiliser would drain it in no time. Modern batteries don’t like going to low and it’s hard to resurrect them.

Also, the Elise battery is both small in size and capacity so it doesn’t take a lot to drain them. I fitted a battery cut off switch to the positive terminal and this helped. Having said that you’ve now cut off power to the alarm imo. There are workarounds though with better switches. Mine is always in a locked garage so it’s never bothered me.

If you are reasonably certain the battery is good, I’d be thinking more starter motor. Like I’ve said, mine does it and I’m sure it’s a duff solenoid that doesn’t get used often.

I think I looked at starter motors on the Elise parts site and they were not that expensive. But that was a couple of years ago when everything was less expensive. I got the shock of my life yesterday when I got a timing belt kit for my Corrado £110! These were no more than £60 a few years ago.

Cheers Jim, that's really helpful. The car has gone little further than 1K a year, over the last 8 years, and so I'm leaning towards the starter motor solenoid being at fault here, especially given that I'm led to believe that the battery is quite new.

A trickle charger is now on order and the Elise is booked in for a starter motor replacement on Friday, hopefully this solves the issue

£79.95 for the unit and £175.00 +VAT for fitting.

[Jim H]

sicasey said:

Jim H said:

Si, in my 20 years plus ownership my Elise has eaten batteries. I’ll be well into double figures now. Initially I just used to leave it for weeks / months sometimes without out use. The alarm and immobiliser would drain it in no time. Modern batteries don’t like going to low and it’s hard to resurrect them.

Also, the Elise battery is both small in size and capacity so it doesn’t take a lot to drain them. I fitted a battery cut off switch to the positive terminal and this helped. Having said that you’ve now cut off power to the alarm imo. There are workarounds though with better switches. Mine is always in a locked garage so it’s never bothered me.

If you are reasonably certain the battery is good, I’d be thinking more starter motor. Like I’ve said, mine does it and I’m sure it’s a duff solenoid that doesn’t get used often.

I think I looked at starter motors on the Elise parts site and they were not that expensive. But that was a couple of years ago when everything was less expensive. I got the shock of my life yesterday when I got a timing belt kit for my Corrado £110! These were no more than £60 a few years ago.

Cheers Jim, that's really helpful. The car has gone little further than 1K a year, over the last 8 years, and so I'm leaning towards the starter motor solenoid being at fault here, especially given that I'm led to believe that the battery is quite new.

A trickle charger is now on order and the Elise is booked in for a starter motor replacement on Friday, hopefully this solves the issue

£79.95 for the unit and £175.00 +VAT for fitting.

Si, that’s the real issue, my Elise very rarely does 1000 K miles a year. It’s a mechanical thing, they don’t like being stood.

Trickle charger is the way to go absolutely.

And, I really don’t think the price you are being quoted is unreasonable at all. Most garage labour rates are £75 p/h + nowadays.

[sicasey]

Jim H said:

Si, that’s the real issue, my Elise very rarely does 1000 K miles a year. It’s a mechanical thing, they don’t like being stood.

Trickle charger is the way to go absolutely.

And, I really don’t think the price you are being quoted is unreasonable at all. Most garage labour rates are £75 p/h + nowadays.

Thanks again Jim, agreed

[BertBert]

Jim H said:

Si, that’s the real issue, my Elise very rarely does 1000 K miles a year. It’s a mechanical thing, they don’t like being stood.

Trickle charger is the way to go absolutely.

And, I really don’t think the price you are being quoted is unreasonable at all. Most garage labour rates are £75 p/h + nowadays.

hah, and the rest! I think most main dealers are at least 100 plus VAT!

[BertBert]

Jim H said:

Modern batteries don’t like going to low and it’s hard to resurrect them.

Just going off topic whilst we wait for the OP to get their car fixed. Are you sure it's modern batteries? They haven't coped with deep discharge since they were invented! Same today and also with Lithium (unless they have a funky BMS).

[Jim H]

BertBert said:

Jim H said:

Modern batteries don’t like going to low and it’s hard to resurrect them.

Just going off topic whilst we wait for the OP to get their car fixed. Are you sure it's modern batteries? They haven't coped with deep discharge since they were invented! Same today and also with Lithium (unless they have a funky BMS).

Oh I dunno Bert, maybe I’m looking back with rose coloured spectacles? I seem to remember in my youth bumping off old sheds (dead battery) ragging them in 3rd for 20 minutes or so and they were brought back to life!

It just seems to me any battery I’ve bought over the last decade has lost the will to live if it’s even remotely been drained.

Having said that, the current battery in my Corrado was fitted to the car when I bought it in 2013 - and it’s still going strong. It’s spent the best part of the last 12 months doing nothing-disconnected. I’ve never known a battery last 12 years ever…

[sicasey]

A new starter motor has thankfully solved the issue which is a relief, given the potential for what could have been a more complex fault

Next up is trying to figure out how to get better brake feel as its current setup is scary to say the least.

[Jim H]

sicasey said:

A new starter motor has thankfully solved the issue which is a relief, given the potential for what could have been a more complex fault

Next up is trying to figure out how to get better brake feel as its current setup is scary to say the least.

Morning Si,

Glad you got the starter issue sorted.

I’m not familiar with spec on a 111S, is your car an non servo, non ABS model?

[sicasey]

Jim H said:

Morning Si,

Glad you got the starter issue sorted.

I’m not familiar with spec on a 111S, is your car an non servo, non ABS model?

Hey Jim - non servo with very little bite!

[John D.]

sicasey said:

Jim H said:

Morning Si,

Glad you got the starter issue sorted.

I’m not familiar with spec on a 111S, is your car an non servo, non ABS model?

Hey Jim - non servo with very little bite!

You probably just need to get used to pushing the peddle harder coming from servo assisted brakes.

[Jim H]

John D. said:

sicasey said:

Jim H said:

Morning Si,

Glad you got the starter issue sorted.

I’m not familiar with spec on a 111S, is your car an non servo, non ABS model?

Hey Jim - non servo with very little bite!

You probably just need to get used to pushing the peddle harder coming from servo assisted brakes.

Yeah, my thoughts entirely, IIRC Lotus went down this route with the Elise as they felt the non-servo assist would appeal more to the purist driver. There would be some marginal weight saving also.

I don’t find the braking to bad in my car in dry conditions, however in the wet it can be a little skittish. I must admit I rarely drive mine in the wet and this is how it has caught me out a few times.

Si, perhaps you could look at a disk / pad upgrade. However I doubt you’d see a massive improvement.

I’m afraid you’ll never compensate for the lack of servo (extra big foot) pressing down on the pedal.