S/C'd FFF

[Far Eastender]

Gentlemen, please don't loose sight of one objective:

To create a Speed 6 engines that outperforms the AJP V8. I am so sick of taking HP stick from those guys (and gals)!

[yzf1070]

crimbo said:

... you have got an extreme forced induction prototype/development engine that will cost the price of a second hand T350.

And some...

crimbo said:

I have no problem with the 600BHP it’s the low down torques that I think will make it an animal.

Ahh but thats the beauty of the centrifugal supercharger it is pretty much linear to the engines original power and torque curve, unlike a positive displacement charger (aka Roots). However you are correct the power is still brutal when it does come in and anything less than very good road conditions (I have been hearing all about the pots holes of late )in 3rd or less gear make the car a handful to drive. Sticky tyres aka Pirelli Corsa's will help a lot but not last long on the road.

[JonRB]

yzf1070 said:

Ahh but thats the beauty of the centrifugal supercharger it is pretty much linear to the engines original power and torque curve, unlike a positive displacement charger (aka Roots).

I think you have that completely arse about face. A positive displacement supercharger gives a linear gain and a centrifugal supercharger gives an exponential gain.

A centrifugal supercharger is pretty much a mechanically-driven turbo-charger (or, more accurately, a turbo-charger is an exhaust-driven centrifugal supercharger) so gives the same characteristics of not much low down and all the gains at higher revs.

So in that respect you're correct - the centrifugal supercharger on Pascal's car will give very little extra low-down torque. Which in some ways is a shame because that's what I feel my Sagaris is missing over my previous Chimaera 500.

Edited by JonRB on Thursday 11th March 20:57

[yzf1070]

JonRB said:

yzf1070 said:

Ahh but thats the beauty of the centrifugal supercharger it is pretty much linear to the engines original power and torque curve, unlike a positive displacement charger (aka Roots).

I think you have that completely arse about face. A positive displacement supercharger gives a linear gain and a centrifugal supercharger gives an exponential gain.

A centrifugal supercharger is pretty much a mechanically-driven turbo-charger (or, more accurately, a turbo-charger is an exhaust-driven centrifugal supercharger) so gives the same characteristics of not much low down and all the gains at higher revs.

So in that respect you're correct - the centrifugal supercharger on Pascal's car will give very little extra low-down torque. Which in some ways is a shame because that's what I feel my Sagaris is missing over my previous Chimaera 500.

Edited by JonRB on Thursday 11th March 20:57

For sooth old chap rather a forward comment when you obviously knew what I was getting at... Further more may I advise you.... my arse is at my rear and my face is very much at my front..... perhaps I termed a wrong choice of phrase so let me put it another way. A positive displacer gives torque/power right from off the tick over.... a centrifugal doesn't give torque/power until it is spinning up and generally follows the NA's engines original power curve, but delivers mightly more.... I know coz I have one

[JonRB]

yzf1070 said:

For sooth old chap rather a forward comment when you obviously knew what I was getting at.

No offence intended. I'm sorry if any was taken.

[yzf1070]

JonRB said:

yzf1070 said:

For sooth old chap rather a forward comment when you obviously knew what I was getting at.

No offence intended. I'm sorry if any was taken.

No worries dude it's only a bit of crack

[T40ORA]

yzf1070 said:

No worries dude it's only a bit of crack

I wish you'd spelled that the Gaelic way. Now I have a horrible vision of a Dagenham Cleavage..

[yzf1070]

T40ORA said:

yzf1070 said:

No worries dude it's only a bit of crack

I wish you'd spelled that the Gaelic way. Now I have a horrible vision of a Dagenham Cleavage..

hmmmm hadn't quite considered it like that.... cunjures up some evil images that does

[PascalBuyens]

Oi !!! Stop "mooning" on my engine's thread !!! LOL

[PascalBuyens]

JonRB said:

yzf1070 said:

Ahh but thats the beauty of the centrifugal supercharger it is pretty much linear to the engines original power and torque curve, unlike a positive displacement charger (aka Roots).

I think you have that completely arse about face. A positive displacement supercharger gives a linear gain and a centrifugal supercharger gives an exponential gain.

A centrifugal supercharger is pretty much a mechanically-driven turbo-charger (or, more accurately, a turbo-charger is an exhaust-driven centrifugal supercharger) so gives the same characteristics of not much low down and all the gains at higher revs.

So in that respect you're correct - the centrifugal supercharger on Pascal's car will give very little extra low-down torque. Which in some ways is a shame because that's what I feel my Sagaris is missing over my previous Chimaera 500.

Edited by JonRB on Thursday 11th March 20:57

Well, if it doesn't live up to the expectations, I might just be crazy enough to add a Roots type supercharger LOL

[JonRB]

PascalBuyens said:

Well, if it doesn't live up to the expectations, I might just be crazy enough to add a Roots type supercharger LOL

To be honest, Pascal, I'm not sure where you'd fit it. Centrifugal superchargers have huge advantages in packaging (they're very compact).

We had a massive thread on this semi-recently which was very interesting (although sadly turned into a slanging match in the end between people who had entrenched views on which type was "better").

Both types have their advantages and disadvantages

Edit: The Wikipedia article on supercharging isn't too bad actually.

Edited by JonRB on Sunday 14th March 18:25

[yzf1070]

JonRB said:

PascalBuyens said:

Well, if it doesn't live up to the expectations, I might just be crazy enough to add a Roots type supercharger LOL

To be honest, Pascal, I'm not sure where you'd fit it. Centrifugal superchargers have huge advantages in packaging (they're very compact).

We had a massive thread on this semi-recently which was very interesting (although sadly turned into a slanging match in the end between people who had entrenched views on which type was "better").

Both types have their advantages and disadvantages

Edit: The Wikipedia article on supercharging isn't too bad actually.

Edited by JonRB on Sunday 14th March 18:25

Indeed, quite an excellent article... Jon have you considered changing the diff and fitting a lighter flywheel to give a bit better low down pick up? I have always been used to bikes so I tend to use the gears more aggressively, but never really found that the Tuscan was that lacking low down. I guess compared to an AJP or RV8 it is, but that would be expected.

Pascal sorry no intention to knab the thread..... good luck, n hope to see your cars results soon (I assure you the centri charger is more than enough.....)

[PascalBuyens]

yzf1070 said:

Pascal sorry no intention to knab the thread..... good luck, n hope to see your cars results soon (I assure you the centri charger is more than enough.....)

Graham, you aren't knabbing the thread at all


Yes, I hope I can show you the car when you're over in the UK...

[JonRB]

yzf1070 said:

but never really found that the Tuscan was that lacking low down. I guess compared to an AJP or RV8 it is, but that would be expected.

Quite. But you need to remember that I had a Chimaera 500 for 6½ years before the Sagaris, so I'm used to having instant low-down torque and bags of it too. Having to be in the right gear with high revs before I get a decent punch is somewhat alien to me.

Having said that it is inherently safer, I suppose, as the Sagaris is ironically more docile that the Chimaera in difficult conditions on small throttle openings where you don't so much want to press on as get home safely.

Edited by JonRB on Monday 15th March 09:36

[Tvr Power]

PascalBuyens said:

JonRB said:

yzf1070 said:

Ahh but thats the beauty of the centrifugal supercharger it is pretty much linear to the engines original power and torque curve, unlike a positive displacement charger (aka Roots).

I think you have that completely arse about face. A positive displacement supercharger gives a linear gain and a centrifugal supercharger gives an exponential gain.

A centrifugal supercharger is pretty much a mechanically-driven turbo-charger (or, more accurately, a turbo-charger is an exhaust-driven centrifugal supercharger) so gives the same characteristics of not much low down and all the gains at higher revs.

So in that respect you're correct - the centrifugal supercharger on Pascal's car will give very little extra low-down torque. Which in some ways is a shame because that's what I feel my Sagaris is missing over my previous Chimaera 500.

Edited by JonRB on Thursday 11th March 20:57

Well, if it doesn't live up to the expectations, I might just be crazy enough to add a Roots type supercharger LOL

be crazy you know you wont be happy having less power than mine

Dom

[tail slide]

Far Eastender said:

Gentlemen, please don't loose sight of one objective:

To create a Speed 6 engines that outperforms the AJP V8. I am so sick of taking HP stick from those guys (and gals)!

You can do that without the SC, just uprate to 4.3 with TVR Power cams to unlock the huge potential of the 4v head you've got, compared to the AJP 2 valve.

Datalogged on track against tuned 4.2 & 4.5 Cerbies

Edited by tail slide on Monday 29th March 18:25

[Tvr Power]

PascalBuyens said:

yzf1070 said:

Pascal sorry no intention to knab the thread..... good luck, n hope to see your cars results soon (I assure you the centri charger is more than enough.....)

Graham, you aren't knabbing the thread at all


Yes, I hope I can show you the car when you're over in the UK...

Blimmey you must have used some fuel by now, SURLEY you must have figures

Edited by Tvr Power on Monday 29th March 18:06

[PascalBuyens]

Nope, I sold it. Had enough of it.

[Podie]

Blimey!

[d18mca]

Pascal.
I hope you are kidding .
Davy