Value of "golden" salvage Engine
Discussion
Don1 said:
I'll freely admit of the known FFF numbers, mine is the definite high spot. But I did do everything to it at the same time - exhaust, cats, airbox etc etc etc.
Personally I'd say if you are chasing bhp, LS or turbos would be better. But to increase the quality and power of a S6 engine, it's hard to beat.
That 4.2 with the FFF head will tell a story. If the FFF head helps power it should put punch a 4.3 sby a decent amount of HP.Personally I'd say if you are chasing bhp, LS or turbos would be better. But to increase the quality and power of a S6 engine, it's hard to beat.
If your being thorough with a S6, what are the options to free it up as much as possible.
I have on my list
- air box
- either custom or good stainless exhaust
- de cat and ceramic coat manifolds/exhaust
Is there any gain from ducting air from anywhere in particular to feed the air box?
borat52 said:
That 4.2 with the FFF head will tell a story. If the FFF head helps power it should put punch a 4.3 sby a decent amount of HP.
If your being thorough with a S6, what are the options to free it up as much as possible.
I have on my list
- air box
- either custom or good stainless exhaust
- de cat and ceramic coat manifolds/exhaust
Is there any gain from ducting air from anywhere in particular to feed the air box?
Thing is, they do already generally. Mine gives more bhp than a 4.5, and about as much torque (less torque than the max 4.5's though, and there aren't many figures for the 5 litre specials).If your being thorough with a S6, what are the options to free it up as much as possible.
I have on my list
- air box
- either custom or good stainless exhaust
- de cat and ceramic coat manifolds/exhaust
Is there any gain from ducting air from anywhere in particular to feed the air box?
Personally I would get a good airbox (I have the ACT carbon/trumpets), but the kits Brendan is selling looks very good. Do the trumpets speed up the airflow into the engine? Unknown.
Exhaust - definitely.
De cat - yes.
Ceramic/wrap - I would have this done now.
Other bits:
Lightened flywheel
RG Simplex timing chain upgrade
Syvecs
Judging by a certain S6 on the continent that is over 450bhp, the S6 loves being gasflowed and breathing.
My understanding from all i've read over the years is that:
- original airbox is very good, ACT airbox can get you 5-10 bhp
- fff head increases air flow, hence bhp/torque
- needs more advanced ECU to get the real extra bhp/torque - Syvecs, New MBE, others
- Brendan/Jools/CliveF optimised airbox, airbox intake, throttle body mods, high lift cams, complete exhaust and got 35-40+ bhp from a Sag engine (4.0S)
- Powers 4.5 needs the more advance ECU to get the real bhp increases
- De-cat and full re-map gets you some extra horses and reduces engine bay temps
- Ceramic coating manifolds is just a good thing to do even if no bhp - these engines get HOT !
How's it going Don ??? Still mega-happy with the FFF package ? No gremlins ?
Mike
- original airbox is very good, ACT airbox can get you 5-10 bhp
- fff head increases air flow, hence bhp/torque
- needs more advanced ECU to get the real extra bhp/torque - Syvecs, New MBE, others
- Brendan/Jools/CliveF optimised airbox, airbox intake, throttle body mods, high lift cams, complete exhaust and got 35-40+ bhp from a Sag engine (4.0S)
- Powers 4.5 needs the more advance ECU to get the real bhp increases
- De-cat and full re-map gets you some extra horses and reduces engine bay temps
- Ceramic coating manifolds is just a good thing to do even if no bhp - these engines get HOT !
How's it going Don ??? Still mega-happy with the FFF package ? No gremlins ?
Mike
Edited by RedSpike66 on Thursday 9th February 20:54
Massively happy, no issues to report (I did lose a radiator on the way back from LM, and ended up blowing the head gasket. Apart from that....)
I would like it to be a round figure... 500bhp sounds good.
The gearbox is starting to grumble with big sticky tyres and operating at 450ish but I keep going with that until it screams enough and get that upgraded.
But the engine is a peach.
I would like it to be a round figure... 500bhp sounds good.
The gearbox is starting to grumble with big sticky tyres and operating at 450ish but I keep going with that until it screams enough and get that upgraded.
But the engine is a peach.
I'd still love to know where Don's extra 10% bhp came from. Asfar as I know, the only difference between his and mine is the cat-back exhaust. I have the equal length manifolds, stainless de-cats from Clive, Syvecs, Simplex, lightened fly.
Other than the exhaust I can't think of any difference - even mapped on the same Dyno. So the lucky bugger definitely git the best of the bunch!
Other than the exhaust I can't think of any difference - even mapped on the same Dyno. So the lucky bugger definitely git the best of the bunch!
T40ORA said:
I'd still love to know where Don's extra 10% bhp came from. Asfar as I know, the only difference between his and mine is the cat-back exhaust. I have the equal length manifolds, stainless de-cats from Clive, Syvecs, Simplex, lightened fly.
Other than the exhaust I can't think of any difference - even mapped on the same Dyno. So the lucky bugger definitely git the best of the bunch!
This is what's called the TVR handicap - hand made engines, all very very different... Apparently there were three piston types - you could have the scooped out pistons that give lower compression. Your injectors might not be as 'on the money' as others (Mine certainly aren't !!)Other than the exhaust I can't think of any difference - even mapped on the same Dyno. So the lucky bugger definitely git the best of the bunch!
Don1 might jut be lucky in that his engine was making very good numbers before the FFF change and all the other bits, with everything working as per design, and the rest of us somewhere between sh*te and that.
T40ORA said:
I'd still love to know where Don's extra 10% bhp came from. Asfar as I know, the only difference between his and mine is the cat-back exhaust. I have the equal length manifolds, stainless de-cats from Clive, Syvecs, Simplex, lightened fly.
Other than the exhaust I can't think of any difference - even mapped on the same Dyno. So the lucky bugger definitely git the best of the bunch!
You've got a different crank and pistons Lee..Other than the exhaust I can't think of any difference - even mapped on the same Dyno. So the lucky bugger definitely git the best of the bunch!
borat52 said:
There's not really enough data out there, but I'm not entirely convinced that the FFF's make much more power without the SYVECS ECU. At a guess based on what data is out there the most effective thing you can do to a S6 is to get the cats out and put in a sequential ECU. FFF probably helps but I think it's much more marginal than the ECU.
I'm inclined to fully agree. Simply adding one of the new management systems to a good engine will deliver tremendous returns in performance. You'll get a much smoother engine that can be tuned to a far greater degree.
What the FFF head does in really basic terms is add more 'straight six' whereas the stroking for CC removes 'straight six'. Which way you go really should depend on what you personally gain pleasure from in the car.
There is the benefit of better oiling but striking the engine negates some of that need by just reducing the peak rpm. And on the flip side of adding a state of the art ECU allowing for maximum tuning I guess the oil feed issues of the standard head may become more so.
For me, I wanted a straight six in my English sports car will be driven on English roads so making it less sixy and more V8y by stroking was never going to be an option. Unlike the opportunity to take a normal 4.0 and make it rev quicker than a 3.6 and deliver the real power right where the engine screams and was designed to be alive.
What the FFF head basically gives you is the sweetness and brilliance of the 3.6 but with the power of a 4.3.
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