questions on reliability
Discussion
unrepentant said:
It's got nothing to do with cash. And for all you know I could be up to my eyes in debt to afford my car. Frankly its none of your business.
So why do so many of your posts include "if you can't afford one don't buy one? (can he really be this thick?)
unrepentant said:
You've made it obvious ad nauseum that you dont like the S6..........
Wrong, I happen to feel it has a reliability problem(I could be wrong). You opinion is worth very little to me, if you get jerked around endlessly you would defend it by saying it is your choice - how clever is that.
On the other hand I can't get enough of posts like Lady T they are a far more positive contribution than yours.
Ribol said:
It's got nothing to do with cash. And for all you know I could be up to my eyes in debt to afford my car. Frankly its none of your business.
So why do so many of your posts include "if you can't afford one don't buy one? (can he really be this thick?)
Stick an example up then.
Go on - see if you find one because I dont remember ever posting one.
What I have said many times to people like you - if you dont want one dont buy one but stop whinging on about it.
unrepentant said:
What I have said many times to people like you
What makes you think I or anyone else really cares about what you think? (who does this chap think he is - is he for real?
) Yes, I could waste my time and trawl through the dross you have posted to find examples but you know what, you are simply not worth my time. Have a good day.
Ribol said:
What I have said many times to people like you
What makes you think I or anyone else really cares about what you think? (who does this chap think he is - is he for real?
Yes, I could waste my time and trawl through the dross you have posted to find examples but you know what, you are simply not worth my time. Have a good day.
: onanist :
unrepentant said:
unrepentant said:
What I have said many times to people like you
What makes you think I or anyone else really cares about what you think? (who does this chap think he is - is he for real?
Yes, I could waste my time and trawl through the dross you have posted to find examples but you know what, you are simply not worth my time. Have a good day.
: onanist :
unrepentant he's not worth the effort mate. Speed 6's rule-I love em!
obviuosly neither of these two poster have had to have a rebuild yet...
Oh - I must apologise for that coomment after all only current owners may dare to comment on S6's...
Seriously Unrepentant has never felt able to tell me how many miles his previous tuscan had on it, when he sold it... As he keeps going on about how reliable they are.. but if he only put less than say 12-15k miles on it whils he owned it(the next owner was probably going to get the rebuild)
It would be interesting to know, or in fact how many miles the next owner has put on it and whether or not it has had a rebuild...
Any way to put my money where my mouth is...
First person to prove that their S6 engined car has done 50k miles , with only routine servicing. I WILL GO OUT AND BUY ONE.
B
edited for typo's
>> Edited by bjwoods on Saturday 6th August 12:40
Oh - I must apologise for that coomment after all only current owners may dare to comment on S6's...
Seriously Unrepentant has never felt able to tell me how many miles his previous tuscan had on it, when he sold it... As he keeps going on about how reliable they are.. but if he only put less than say 12-15k miles on it whils he owned it(the next owner was probably going to get the rebuild)
It would be interesting to know, or in fact how many miles the next owner has put on it and whether or not it has had a rebuild...
Any way to put my money where my mouth is...
First person to prove that their S6 engined car has done 50k miles , with only routine servicing. I WILL GO OUT AND BUY ONE.
B
edited for typo's
>> Edited by bjwoods on Saturday 6th August 12:40
I think it would be very interesting to see the percentage of well maintained well treated cars that reach 10k, 20k, 30k etc without a rebuild. Some cars clearly do achieve very high mileages, some clearly failed relatively early, but it's hard to get a clear view on what is typical. Given that as a baseline, it would also be interesting to see if this durability has improved in recent years. I guess that might be hard to do because of course recent cars are less likely to have covered a high mileage,
it's interesting looking thorugh the Autotrader ads...
There are loads of 2000, 2001 tusc mk1 cars for sale with mileages less than 20k, quite a lot with less than 10k miles on it, and a number of these have HAD rebuilds. The average mileage seem to be less than 20k.
I know one of thes at least on 18k, is knackered and the owner is desperatly trying to get out of....
Hopefully, the autocraft/a J melling route is the way out of it.
If so a canny buyer, could pick up a mk 1 for apittance, spent 5-6k wir=th redesigned/original aj melling design heads. and end up with a rock solid engine and a bargain supercar...
As i said 'hopefully'
Just I don't know who is prepared to take the gamble and be the first.
B
There are loads of 2000, 2001 tusc mk1 cars for sale with mileages less than 20k, quite a lot with less than 10k miles on it, and a number of these have HAD rebuilds. The average mileage seem to be less than 20k.
I know one of thes at least on 18k, is knackered and the owner is desperatly trying to get out of....
Hopefully, the autocraft/a J melling route is the way out of it.
If so a canny buyer, could pick up a mk 1 for apittance, spent 5-6k wir=th redesigned/original aj melling design heads. and end up with a rock solid engine and a bargain supercar...
As i said 'hopefully'
Just I don't know who is prepared to take the gamble and be the first.
B
bjwoods said:
Hopefully, the autocraft/a J melling route is the way out of it.
If so a canny buyer, could pick up a mk 1 for apittance, spent 5-6k wir=th redesigned/original aj melling design heads. and end up with a rock solid engine and a bargain supercar...
Is this the miracle solution that they are so confident about that they are offering a full 12 month warranty on the 5-6ks worth of work? Or am I thinking of another one?
Well if unrepentant will sell me his for £15k I might be preapred to take a punt on it, or wait until after thewarranty expires and se what the trade value is then.
Still not telling how many miles your ultra reliable tuscan had on it before you sold it then.
B
Edited to add can't resist rising to the bait
sorry everyone.
>> Edited by bjwoods on Saturday 6th August 14:49
Still not telling how many miles your ultra reliable tuscan had on it before you sold it then.
B
Edited to add can't resist rising to the bait
sorry everyone. >> Edited by bjwoods on Saturday 6th August 14:49
bjwoods said:
Well if unrepentant will sell me his for £15k I might be preapred to take a punt on it, or wait until after thewarranty expires and se what the trade value is then.
Still not telling how many miles your ultra reliable tuscan had on it before you sold it then.
B
Edited to add can't resist rising to the bait
>> Edited by bjwoods on Saturday 6th August 14:49
Sold my old one for £30k Woodsy, even with that mileage!. Hardly any depreciation on a Tuscan you see.
>> Edited by unrepentant on Saturday 6th August 15:06
So that's over £10k depreciation...
Must have been a low mileage one I guess at £30k.
Back too topic, Redgriff500 has any of this information been useful. Probaly time to call a halt now, as I don't think it will get any more productive.
I do hope Lady Topaz, et al have no problems in the future, as I'm no longer flushed with cash (2 under twos see to that) I'll just wait to we get posts saying my cars have reached 20-30k with no engine probs, then I'll be satisifed, not that my personal circumstance matter to anyone else...
B
Must have been a low mileage one I guess at £30k.
Back too topic, Redgriff500 has any of this information been useful. Probaly time to call a halt now, as I don't think it will get any more productive.
I do hope Lady Topaz, et al have no problems in the future, as I'm no longer flushed with cash (2 under twos see to that) I'll just wait to we get posts saying my cars have reached 20-30k with no engine probs, then I'll be satisifed, not that my personal circumstance matter to anyone else...
B
There is an awful lot of speculative talk on here.
Fact.......
My 1st car was sold with 17,000 miles, no rebuild or engine problems. Repeat 2002 4ltr for I wont say exactly how much, but well in excess of £32,000.
The vehicle's new owner is known to me and has increased the mileage well into the 20,000's. No problems.
Current car coming up for 6'000mls,
niggles but no engine problems.
No, I dont track it.
Yes, I do drive it hard and every day.
It seems many only want to hear from those who have had trouble, a lot of their own making, and choose to ignore those of us that havent had problems.
If I do get engine trouble I will announce it and deal with it. It certainly wont put me off another SP6.
Any car that is sold for a ridiculous low price is either a dog or the owner is mad.
I have seen a couple of insurance loan Tuscans and they were a complete mess, sadly totally abused.
A well looked after Tuscan is a joy to own, not the liability some seem to think.
The phrase either buy one or dont really is true, because nothing anyone says good or bad will alter the facts or I guess the doubters opinions.
Fact.......
My 1st car was sold with 17,000 miles, no rebuild or engine problems. Repeat 2002 4ltr for I wont say exactly how much, but well in excess of £32,000.
The vehicle's new owner is known to me and has increased the mileage well into the 20,000's. No problems.
Current car coming up for 6'000mls,
niggles but no engine problems.
No, I dont track it.
Yes, I do drive it hard and every day.
It seems many only want to hear from those who have had trouble, a lot of their own making, and choose to ignore those of us that havent had problems.
If I do get engine trouble I will announce it and deal with it. It certainly wont put me off another SP6.
Any car that is sold for a ridiculous low price is either a dog or the owner is mad.
I have seen a couple of insurance loan Tuscans and they were a complete mess, sadly totally abused.
A well looked after Tuscan is a joy to own, not the liability some seem to think.
The phrase either buy one or dont really is true, because nothing anyone says good or bad will alter the facts or I guess the doubters opinions.
Sadly now, trade in prices for tuscans of a 00-03 vintage are really SCARILY low at the moment, because of the 'precieved risk'.
Up until a short time ago most people myself include were beiginning to believe that later cars ie 03 onwards would not be a problem...
Yet we have now seen a number of threads where o3, and o4 s6 engined cars are effected. So when considering a £40-50k purchase, potential depreciation, is a fairly major factor to be taken into account...
It really is a bit deja vu,,, last year we had a number of 'current' owners saying never had any problems, and shall we say vigorously defending the s6, (but had all done less than 20 k miles, some much less) then in dribs and drabs these same owners reporting, car back at blackpool.
So we are in exactly the same situation again, with one or 2 people shouting down any reasonable discussion, (not refering to you Lady Topaz, I have enjoyed your year in the life thread) which as far as I'm concerened needs to be countereed with a degree of caution, because people dreading these threads to take notice, and may buy without beeing aware of both sides.
I notice from an excellent thread started by Justin- his parting shot one - that unrepentant said he sold his previous 2003 car with 15k miles on the clock...
As we have heard of a number of well looked after, lovingly cared for cars going back to blackpool at the 15-20 k mile mark. in my opinion, it was simply to early to tell and did not justify the strong opinion. again imho
A number of owners have hit 20 k withut rebuild, but again some have reached less than 6k on 03, 04 cars..
This is probably down to how they are driven but if even the most lovingly looked after,late car 'probably ' won't reach 30k miles there remains a serious problem for TVR.
THIS is the ultimate problem not the issue itself, but how TVR have dealt with it and continue to deal with it.... Withdrawing good will on their cars, only 2- 4 years old many with less than 20 k miles on, leaving owners to PAY to get them fixed.... MOST manufactures, Would simply just sort it out, quickly and for free. Not TVR, momths in a queues disinformation, big bills.
Again that is just my opiion of the situation, I wish all CURRENT owners well , and i hope None of you (without exception ) need a rebuild, and loss of their car for a few months..
B
Up until a short time ago most people myself include were beiginning to believe that later cars ie 03 onwards would not be a problem...
Yet we have now seen a number of threads where o3, and o4 s6 engined cars are effected. So when considering a £40-50k purchase, potential depreciation, is a fairly major factor to be taken into account...
It really is a bit deja vu,,, last year we had a number of 'current' owners saying never had any problems, and shall we say vigorously defending the s6, (but had all done less than 20 k miles, some much less) then in dribs and drabs these same owners reporting, car back at blackpool.
So we are in exactly the same situation again, with one or 2 people shouting down any reasonable discussion, (not refering to you Lady Topaz, I have enjoyed your year in the life thread) which as far as I'm concerened needs to be countereed with a degree of caution, because people dreading these threads to take notice, and may buy without beeing aware of both sides.
I notice from an excellent thread started by Justin- his parting shot one - that unrepentant said he sold his previous 2003 car with 15k miles on the clock...
As we have heard of a number of well looked after, lovingly cared for cars going back to blackpool at the 15-20 k mile mark. in my opinion, it was simply to early to tell and did not justify the strong opinion. again imho
A number of owners have hit 20 k withut rebuild, but again some have reached less than 6k on 03, 04 cars..
This is probably down to how they are driven but if even the most lovingly looked after,late car 'probably ' won't reach 30k miles there remains a serious problem for TVR.
THIS is the ultimate problem not the issue itself, but how TVR have dealt with it and continue to deal with it.... Withdrawing good will on their cars, only 2- 4 years old many with less than 20 k miles on, leaving owners to PAY to get them fixed.... MOST manufactures, Would simply just sort it out, quickly and for free. Not TVR, momths in a queues disinformation, big bills.
Again that is just my opiion of the situation, I wish all CURRENT owners well , and i hope None of you (without exception
) need a rebuild, and loss of their car for a few months.. B
You have hit the nail on the head really.
As I have said on dozens of occassions, things with TVR, be it the engine, general quality of some of the components, customer service, communication etc are below the standard of what is expected and should be taken for granted.
Having said that, I personally dont think things will change to any great degree soon. There has undoubtedly been gradual improvements in some areas, and I would include the SP6 in this as so many more vehicles have it, with diminishing problems. Only time will tell.
And this is where us supporters, however emotionally we want to put it are correct.
If you wait for the miracle of a 100% reliable TVR, you will never own one.
You have asked the right questions but without being rude, dont seem to like the answers.
Only the foolish, or very rich, would entertain a Tuscan without doing the research. I thought long and hard before my 1st one, having enjoyed the reliability of a Boxster, but having owned one for over two and a half years now there is no other car I would rather have.
I went into ownership eyes wide open, and knew the risks. As I said earlier, if my engine goes then I would deal with it. It was a risk me and others are prepared to take. For me this is a big problem as it is my daily drive, but I would find a way.
Have you actually test driven one??
Please do and I guarantee your fears about reliability will fade due to the sheer driving pleasure they provide. Your only concern will be how quickly you can get one.
Anyway the choice is yours at the end of the day. No-one is more indecisive than me, being a Gemini, but I have not a single regret.
Good luck
As I have said on dozens of occassions, things with TVR, be it the engine, general quality of some of the components, customer service, communication etc are below the standard of what is expected and should be taken for granted.
Having said that, I personally dont think things will change to any great degree soon. There has undoubtedly been gradual improvements in some areas, and I would include the SP6 in this as so many more vehicles have it, with diminishing problems. Only time will tell.
And this is where us supporters, however emotionally we want to put it are correct.
If you wait for the miracle of a 100% reliable TVR, you will never own one.
You have asked the right questions but without being rude, dont seem to like the answers.
Only the foolish, or very rich, would entertain a Tuscan without doing the research. I thought long and hard before my 1st one, having enjoyed the reliability of a Boxster, but having owned one for over two and a half years now there is no other car I would rather have.
I went into ownership eyes wide open, and knew the risks. As I said earlier, if my engine goes then I would deal with it. It was a risk me and others are prepared to take. For me this is a big problem as it is my daily drive, but I would find a way.
Have you actually test driven one??
Please do and I guarantee your fears about reliability will fade due to the sheer driving pleasure they provide. Your only concern will be how quickly you can get one.
Anyway the choice is yours at the end of the day. No-one is more indecisive than me, being a Gemini, but I have not a single regret.
Good luck
woodsy said:
Los and lots and ....................
My previous Tuscan was a Jan 03 car, sold March 05 with 15k. Although the car was 42k I paid 40 so 10k depreciation in 26 months. Pretty good compared to most cars I've bought and sold and I know my dealer sold it on for a bit more than that.
In fairness Woodo I have a lot of sympathy with your position. I kept my last E-Type for 9 years and had planned to keep my first Tuscan for a long time. I was seduced by the T2 and the deal
offered.
I went into my reasons for buying the first car before so no point in re-hashing except to say I do believe that if you want something then go for it because you may not be here tomorrow. Having said that my kids are in their teens so the pressures on me are slightly different than those that you have, which I understand.
As far as the engine is concerned, mine have both been great. (I've had loads of other niggles with both cars but I accept that and they are always sorted out) But - having bought my car(s) new and having complied with all instructions and had them serviced at a main dealer IF my engine were to go pop at 20 k say after 1, 2, 3 or even 4 years I would not expect it to cost me anything. And I would not hesitate to reach for messrs Sue, Grabbit and Runne if it was suggested to me that it should.
But thats hypothetical. The facts are that the car is stonking, the most fun I've ever had with my clothes on and I love it to bits. And the best part of it is the engine.
And that is my experience.
thing is first griff, bought £28k sold £22k
£1100 annual depreciation - owned 5.5 years
Current griff - Bought £38k, had offers (£21k dealer trade in) £22k privately last month
£2300 annual depreciation.- owned 7 years
And AUg 03 tusc/tam/t350 owners are looking at a MINIMUM of £5k a year depreciation.
I very nearly bought a 2001 Tusc new, but a business oportunity took up the cash at the time.... I do not regret this, as looking through autotrader now, 'that' car, in a similar condition to how I would maintain it, is getting much less as a trade in/privately tahn my current griff, and it would have cost more new, + aircon, 18 spiders, etc.
I have driven the mk 2's S and standard, and I prefered the S , standard seemed a bit slow, compared to the griff, low rev torque, and yes I do love it, mainly for the looks. I have put ohlins on my griff, and that has bought the handling up to asimilar standard (NOT SPEED), in a non-track day, me driving on public road opinion.
I'm not expecting 100% reliability, but TVR's behaviour, attitude, withdrawaly of out of warranty goodwill is killing the used values of cars out of warranty.
So I buy a new tusc, intend to keep a min of 4 - 5 years, at mu annual mileag goes bang at 25k miles a month out of warranty, TVR's current attitude would seem to be to customers, get lost, AND/OR heres a big bill...
So, I guess for me it does come down to TVR's attitude to it's customers... and NOT actually the risk of a rebuild itself, at my mileage I would expect to get 3-5 years of motoring, before maybe a problem, but it's depreciating badly.
Unless it changes, I guess my next £50k car will be a v8 aston second hand in 2-3 years time.
Shame really.
As I'm sure I'm not alone in this sentiment.
B
>> Edited by bjwoods on Saturday 6th August 17:20
£1100 annual depreciation - owned 5.5 years
Current griff - Bought £38k, had offers (£21k dealer trade in) £22k privately last month
£2300 annual depreciation.- owned 7 years
And AUg 03 tusc/tam/t350 owners are looking at a MINIMUM of £5k a year depreciation.
I very nearly bought a 2001 Tusc new, but a business oportunity took up the cash at the time.... I do not regret this, as looking through autotrader now, 'that' car, in a similar condition to how I would maintain it, is getting much less as a trade in/privately tahn my current griff, and it would have cost more new, + aircon, 18 spiders, etc.
I have driven the mk 2's S and standard, and I prefered the S , standard seemed a bit slow, compared to the griff, low rev torque, and yes I do love it, mainly for the looks. I have put ohlins on my griff, and that has bought the handling up to asimilar standard (NOT SPEED), in a non-track day, me driving on public road opinion.
I'm not expecting 100% reliability, but TVR's behaviour, attitude, withdrawaly of out of warranty goodwill is killing the used values of cars out of warranty.
So I buy a new tusc, intend to keep a min of 4 - 5 years, at mu annual mileag goes bang at 25k miles a month out of warranty, TVR's current attitude would seem to be to customers, get lost, AND/OR heres a big bill...
So, I guess for me it does come down to TVR's attitude to it's customers... and NOT actually the risk of a rebuild itself, at my mileage I would expect to get 3-5 years of motoring, before maybe a problem, but it's depreciating badly.
Unless it changes, I guess my next £50k car will be a v8 aston second hand in 2-3 years time.
Shame really.
As I'm sure I'm not alone in this sentiment.
B
>> Edited by bjwoods on Saturday 6th August 17:20
bjwoods said:
thing is first griff, bought £28k sold £22k
£1100 annual depreciation - owned 5.5 years
Current griff - Bought £38k, had offers (£21k dealer trade in) £22k privately last month
£2300 annual depreciation.- owned 7 years
And AUg 03 tusc/tam/t350 owners are looking at a MINIMUM of £5k a year depreciation.
Last post as I should go home.
You're comparing apples to pears Woodsy. Current models invariably depreciate much faster.
For example my last E-Type. Paid £25k. kept 9 years - sold for £18k. 7k in 9 years - bugger all. I had a new XJs in 1992. Cost £30,500. Sold it 2 years later for £12,000. (70k on it in fairness). Your Griff is a classic now. Prices have stabilised. Also the T2 will have pushed down values of the Tuscans in the short term.
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