Advanced / Police Driver Training
Discussion
jamesallport said:
For about 20 years from 1993 I was very involved in (civilian) advanced driving. I had the huge privilege of being coached by some great drivers, police and not, in some lovely cars on road and track. Sometimes we drove quickly, sometimes not.
Driving well is just as important to me now as it was then. But reading this thread is a salutary reminder of why I don't now spend much time in the "advanced driving" world. The key thing all the best drivers I sat next to had in common was mindset. Specifically, they were very humble. I'm absolutely delighted that, on the occasions I went for a gear a fraction too early, no-one hit me with a ruler. Your mileage may vary.
But please don't let me get in the way of a really good flame war about who went faster on their advanced course. As you were.
Hello James, not heard from you for a while. I hope you are well.Driving well is just as important to me now as it was then. But reading this thread is a salutary reminder of why I don't now spend much time in the "advanced driving" world. The key thing all the best drivers I sat next to had in common was mindset. Specifically, they were very humble. I'm absolutely delighted that, on the occasions I went for a gear a fraction too early, no-one hit me with a ruler. Your mileage may vary.
But please don't let me get in the way of a really good flame war about who went faster on their advanced course. As you were.
You may remember meeting my infamous friend TripleS on the very first ADUK driving day.
There were only four of us that day; yourself, Nick Fearn, StressedDave and the hooligan from up North - who really didn't know what advanced driving was all about, and still doesn't!
M Barrett said:
VH definitely a Politician zzzzzzzz
Wow, I wouldn't normally post on here and having had my debates with VH over the years, we have often disagreed. I think you should grab your pipe and slippers and go back to the "that's the way we've always done it" brigade. You truly are a dinosaur!I joined 25 years ago and aways had shiny shoes and a smart tunic, spent 40 minutes in parade, stood for the gaffa and then spent an hour playing table tennis to determine on a daily basis the station champ. On nights we'd have a blast around the local racing track in the Maestro as we had the key for it in case there were intruders.
Now parade might last 5-10 minutes but by the end the majority of officers have already gone to a job, often turning out 20 minutes before parade. Am I bothered that they don't stand when I walk in, Nope. Standards now are under far more scrutiny then they ever were when you guys got away with the Dover run on nights.
1980 there were 2.5 million crimes compared to over 5 million today. We have the same number of officers now as we did in 1982 only we're twice as busy. So standards of dress may have dropped in your eyes but its more practical than back in the day when you seldom got out the Jag, even to smoke your pipe! But you did always wash the car before handing it over to the next crew.
I reckon since they got rid of those height restrictions, its all gone down hill. How could a 5ft 8" officer possibly drive as well as a 6ft 2" one?
VH is spot on!
Edited by playtent on Saturday 16th December 12:06
jamesallport said:
Driving well is just as important to me now as it was then. But reading this thread is a salutary reminder of why I don't now spend much time in the "advanced driving" world. The key thing all the best drivers I sat next to had in common was mindset. Specifically, they were very humble.
I was filled with delight reading that, as I whole heartedly agree, and to me there is only one, possibly two people on this thread who make themselves look utterly ridiculous and uncredible.p1esk said:
Hello James, not heard from you for a while. I hope you are well.
You may remember meeting my infamous friend TripleS on the very first ADUK driving day.
There were only four of us that day; yourself, Nick Fearn, StressedDave and the hooligan from up North - who really didn't know what advanced driving was all about, and still doesn't!
I used to be P_D on there... ;-)You may remember meeting my infamous friend TripleS on the very first ADUK driving day.
There were only four of us that day; yourself, Nick Fearn, StressedDave and the hooligan from up North - who really didn't know what advanced driving was all about, and still doesn't!
playtent said:
Wow, I wouldn't normally post on here and having had my debates with VH over the years, we have often disagreed. I think you should grab your pipe and slippers and go back to the "that's the way we've always done it" brigade. You truly are a dinosaur!
I joined 25 years ago and aways had shiny shoes and a smart tunic, spent 40 minutes in parade, stood for the gaffa and then spent an hour playing table tennis to determine on a daily basis the station champ. On nights we'd have a blast around the local racing track in the Maestro as we had the key for it in case there were intruders.
Now parade might last 5-10 minutes but by the end the majority of officers have already gone to a job, often turning out 20 minutes before parade. Am I bothered that they don't stand when I walk in, Nope. Standards now are under far more scrutiny then they ever were when you guys got away with the Dover run on nights.
1980 there were 2.5 million crimes compared to over 5 million today. We have the same number of officers now as we did in 1982 only we're twice as busy. So standards of dress may have dropped in your eyes but its more practical than back in the day when you seldom got out the Jag, even to smoke your pipe! But you did always wash the car before handing it over to the next crew.
I reckon since they got rid of those height restrictions, its all gone down hill. How could a 5ft 8" officer possibly drive as well as a 6ft 2" one?
VH is spot on!
I wouldn't wase your time with him to be honest, I suspect it is possible he may even be a troll such is the drivel that he has posted. I joined 25 years ago and aways had shiny shoes and a smart tunic, spent 40 minutes in parade, stood for the gaffa and then spent an hour playing table tennis to determine on a daily basis the station champ. On nights we'd have a blast around the local racing track in the Maestro as we had the key for it in case there were intruders.
Now parade might last 5-10 minutes but by the end the majority of officers have already gone to a job, often turning out 20 minutes before parade. Am I bothered that they don't stand when I walk in, Nope. Standards now are under far more scrutiny then they ever were when you guys got away with the Dover run on nights.
1980 there were 2.5 million crimes compared to over 5 million today. We have the same number of officers now as we did in 1982 only we're twice as busy. So standards of dress may have dropped in your eyes but its more practical than back in the day when you seldom got out the Jag, even to smoke your pipe! But you did always wash the car before handing it over to the next crew.
I reckon since they got rid of those height restrictions, its all gone down hill. How could a 5ft 8" officer possibly drive as well as a 6ft 2" one?
VH is spot on!
Edited by playtent on Saturday 16th December 12:06
ADUK Advance driving day, absolutely says it all!! What ridiculously ignorant pathetic posts which show that you are probably about as good at Policing as you are at driving. You’ve said it yourself, yeah there are twice as many crimes now as in the 80’s and the reason is because the detection rate is so poor that committing crime these days is a fairly safe bet with little to no chance of getting caught! I have a friend who did his thirty in the Met and now has a very successful legal company with a team of Solicitors visiting Police stations throughout Southern England. He regularly relays most entertaining stories to me well actually very sad stories where very very regularly people have been arrested with NO evidence and on him pointing this out in the custody suite the suspect is released with NFA. On some of these occasions compensation has been awarded and the idiot uniform carrier concerned has kept his job! Frightening!
You are clearly bitter and insecure too to suggest that I am a troll because you don’t like my opinions. Yes I agree I have wound you up but you have probably been an easy wind up throughout your service, every relief or team as they call them now has someone that is good play value and clearly I have got one on the hook good and proper! Calm down, chill out and just admit that I’m right!
You are clearly bitter and insecure too to suggest that I am a troll because you don’t like my opinions. Yes I agree I have wound you up but you have probably been an easy wind up throughout your service, every relief or team as they call them now has someone that is good play value and clearly I have got one on the hook good and proper! Calm down, chill out and just admit that I’m right!
Edited by M Barrett on Sunday 17th December 18:29
Oh one more thing that maybe playtent would comment on. He seems to forgive the Police for looking like sacks of Sh.. nowadays as they are so busy, ha ha. How about our armed services, Royal Marines, RAF, Paras etc who really do have a more difficult job today a fact that I don’t think anyone can disput with more cut backs but their dress and appearance is as it always was, impeccable!
Dizeee said:
I wouldn't waste your time with him to be honest, I suspect it is possible he may even be a troll such is the drivel that he has posted.
I'm sure your right. Incidentally I was chatting with a retired colleague yesterday on a get together who retired in 2008. I'd mentioned this thread and we had an interesting chat about his advanced course in 1982. His was driving a Morris Ital which had a couple of paving slabs in the boot to give better traction. A 2ltr with 90bhp and a top speed of 101mph. He then drove a Rover Vitesse with an astonishing 130bhp. In his later years as a dog hander he drove a Skoda Octavia VRS estate which he couldn't believe how quick they were. He did all he could to avoid the now compulsory refresher courses that arrived in the late 2000's as he'd never done any further training since his original course in 82! He never had to do one prior to retirement. Now there every 5 years! Standards and all that dropping!playtent said:
I'm sure your right. Incidentally I was chatting with a retired colleague yesterday on a get together who retired in 2008. I'd mentioned this thread and we had an interesting chat about his advanced course in 1982. His was driving a Morris Ital which had a couple of paving slabs in the boot to give better traction. A 2ltr with 90bhp and a top speed of 101mph. He then drove a Rover Vitesse with an astonishing 130bhp. In his later years as a dog hander he drove a Skoda Octavia VRS estate which he couldn't believe how quick they were. He did all he could to avoid the now compulsory refresher courses that arrived in the late 2000's as he'd never done any further training since his original course in 82! He never had to do one prior to retirement. Now there every 5 years! Standards and all that dropping!
Did mine in 1982 in an SD1 3.5 Rover and 2.8 Ford Granada. Had regular check tests and refreshers up until 2005 - so not the case in all forces.As I said total waffling rubbish again, whoever you were speaking to regarding the 1982 Advanced car course was obviously never on an Advanced course. The Morris Ital was never ever a car used on the Advanced course, in fact it was used as a GP car on division and it was total rubbish, in the wet even with its feeble horse power it was a nightmare to keep on the road. Second inaccuracy, the Rover Vitesse actually had 187 BHP, rear wheel drive with no driver aids fitted to modern cars. I drove these and on a chase or lengthy emercall you could easily boil the brake fluid and end up with NO brakes, a thing that doesn't happen at all these days! Third inaccuracy, the Skoda Octavia VRS they use now is the diesel version producing 181 BHP, 6 BHP less than the car used 35 years ago. The Octavia is equipped all be quite primitive all the modern driver aids, ABS, ESP and the like. I'm surprised your friend finds it so quick as it is a pretty rubbish car and certainly isn't quick. My wife drives an Audi RS3 which has a touch under 400 BHP with all the driver aids and it is almost fool proof to drive in the wet or dry despite being a genuinely fast hatchback. In the 80's you would be check tested whenever it was believed that your standard has slipped ie following a (to count) Polacc, an eye test or any period of longer than 6 months of not driving operationally and this was strictly adhered to. Nowadays the reason for the refresher courses in purely because the driving standards are so poor and the Polacc rate is so high.
M Barrett said:
As I said total waffling rubbish again, whoever you were speaking to regarding the 1982 Advanced car course was obviously never on an Advanced course. The Morris Ital was never ever a car used on the Advanced course, in fact it was used as a GP car on division and it was total rubbish, in the wet even with its feeble horse power it was a nightmare to keep on the road. Second inaccuracy, the Rover Vitesse actually had 187 BHP, rear wheel drive with no driver aids fitted to modern cars. I drove these and on a chase or lengthy emercall you could easily boil the brake fluid and end up with NO brakes, a thing that doesn't happen at all these days! Third inaccuracy, the Skoda Octavia VRS they use now is the diesel version producing 181 BHP, 6 BHP less than the car used 35 years ago. The Octavia is equipped all be quite primitive all the modern driver aids, ABS, ESP and the like. I'm surprised your friend finds it so quick as it is a pretty rubbish car and certainly isn't quick. My wife drives an Audi RS3 which has a touch under 400 BHP with all the driver aids and it is almost fool proof to drive in the wet or dry despite being a genuinely fast hatchback. In the 80's you would be check tested whenever it was believed that your standard has slipped ie following a (to count) Polacc, an eye test or any period of longer than 6 months of not driving operationally and this was strictly adhered to. Nowadays the reason for the refresher courses in purely because the driving standards are so poor and the Polacc rate is so high.
Hi, M Barrett, This is an advanced driving forum. I'd be happy to read anything sensible that you have to tell us about advanced driving but, please give us a break from all this silly nonsense. No one is interested, no one is listening and it all comes across as being a bit childish.
The Met isn''t the only Police service in the Uk other than to members of the Met! There not all county forces either. GMP, WMP and the like.
The Skoda was a petrol not diesel and he did use an Ital on his advanced course. I stand corrected on the BHP of the almighty Rover with no brakes. I imagine you used your professionalism and stopped immediately the moment the brakes started to fade!
VH was a driving instructor in the Met for many years so you'd think he'd have some idea what he was taking about, but obviously not as much as you!
Your right about the road safety aspect though as the IPCC figures show;
Civilian fatalities following police related road traffic incidents - England & Wales
Financial Year
? Pursuit Emergency response 'Other incidents' ? Total fatalities ?
?2004/05 ? 23 ? 6 ? 15 ? 44
?2005/06 ? 32 ? 4 ? 12 ? 48
?2006/07 ? 19 ?3 ? 14 ? 36
?2007/08 ? 17 ? 2 ? 5 ? 24
?2008/09 ? 22 ? 6 ? 12 ? 40
?2009/10 ? 19 3 7 29
?2010/11 ? 13 ? 4 ? 9 ? 26
?2011/12 ?12 ? 2 ? 5 ? 19
2012 /13 27 2 2 31
2013 /14 10 0 2 12
Oh actually your not. Emergency response is an interesting figure.
https://cdn.statcdn.com/Statistic/315000/319304-bl...
Bored of you now old man, stick to the gardening forums where you can tell Alan Titchmarsh how he doesn't know what he's on about either because you grew a potted plant back in 1978.
The Skoda was a petrol not diesel and he did use an Ital on his advanced course. I stand corrected on the BHP of the almighty Rover with no brakes. I imagine you used your professionalism and stopped immediately the moment the brakes started to fade!
VH was a driving instructor in the Met for many years so you'd think he'd have some idea what he was taking about, but obviously not as much as you!
Your right about the road safety aspect though as the IPCC figures show;
Civilian fatalities following police related road traffic incidents - England & Wales
Financial Year
? Pursuit Emergency response 'Other incidents' ? Total fatalities ?
?2004/05 ? 23 ? 6 ? 15 ? 44
?2005/06 ? 32 ? 4 ? 12 ? 48
?2006/07 ? 19 ?3 ? 14 ? 36
?2007/08 ? 17 ? 2 ? 5 ? 24
?2008/09 ? 22 ? 6 ? 12 ? 40
?2009/10 ? 19 3 7 29
?2010/11 ? 13 ? 4 ? 9 ? 26
?2011/12 ?12 ? 2 ? 5 ? 19
2012 /13 27 2 2 31
2013 /14 10 0 2 12
Oh actually your not. Emergency response is an interesting figure.
https://cdn.statcdn.com/Statistic/315000/319304-bl...
Bored of you now old man, stick to the gardening forums where you can tell Alan Titchmarsh how he doesn't know what he's on about either because you grew a potted plant back in 1978.
playtent said:
The Met isn''t the only Police service in the Uk other than to members of the Met! There not all county forces either. GMP, WMP and the like.
The Skoda was a petrol not diesel and he did use an Ital on his advanced course. I stand corrected on the BHP of the almighty Rover with no brakes. I imagine you used your professionalism and stopped immediately the moment the brakes started to fade!
VH was a driving instructor in the Met for many years so you'd think he'd have some idea what he was taking about, but obviously not as much as you!
Your right about the road safety aspect though as the IPCC figures show;
Civilian fatalities following police related road traffic incidents - England & Wales
Financial Year
? Pursuit Emergency response 'Other incidents' ? Total fatalities ?
?2004/05 ? 23 ? 6 ? 15 ? 44
?2005/06 ? 32 ? 4 ? 12 ? 48
?2006/07 ? 19 ?3 ? 14 ? 36
?2007/08 ? 17 ? 2 ? 5 ? 24
?2008/09 ? 22 ? 6 ? 12 ? 40
?2009/10 ? 19 3 7 29
?2010/11 ? 13 ? 4 ? 9 ? 26
?2011/12 ?12 ? 2 ? 5 ? 19
2012 /13 27 2 2 31
2013 /14 10 0 2 12
Oh actually your not. Emergency response is an interesting figure.
https://cdn.statcdn.com/Statistic/315000/319304-bl...
Bored of you now old man, stick to the gardening forums where you can tell Alan Titchmarsh how he doesn't know what he's on about either because you grew a potted plant back in 1978.
Hi Playtent,The Skoda was a petrol not diesel and he did use an Ital on his advanced course. I stand corrected on the BHP of the almighty Rover with no brakes. I imagine you used your professionalism and stopped immediately the moment the brakes started to fade!
VH was a driving instructor in the Met for many years so you'd think he'd have some idea what he was taking about, but obviously not as much as you!
Your right about the road safety aspect though as the IPCC figures show;
Civilian fatalities following police related road traffic incidents - England & Wales
Financial Year
? Pursuit Emergency response 'Other incidents' ? Total fatalities ?
?2004/05 ? 23 ? 6 ? 15 ? 44
?2005/06 ? 32 ? 4 ? 12 ? 48
?2006/07 ? 19 ?3 ? 14 ? 36
?2007/08 ? 17 ? 2 ? 5 ? 24
?2008/09 ? 22 ? 6 ? 12 ? 40
?2009/10 ? 19 3 7 29
?2010/11 ? 13 ? 4 ? 9 ? 26
?2011/12 ?12 ? 2 ? 5 ? 19
2012 /13 27 2 2 31
2013 /14 10 0 2 12
Oh actually your not. Emergency response is an interesting figure.
https://cdn.statcdn.com/Statistic/315000/319304-bl...
Bored of you now old man, stick to the gardening forums where you can tell Alan Titchmarsh how he doesn't know what he's on about either because you grew a potted plant back in 1978.
It's really not worth the effort. Let's bring a bit of proper, sensible and adult debate to this forum. Not this bonkers stupidity. Oops! Sorry, silly me, I've just realised this is PistonHeads. Why did I think it was ADHub. OK, carry on as you were...
Edited by johnao on Monday 18th December 18:33
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