Irrational Driving behaviours

[R56Cooper]

People who indicate a split-second before they leave a dual carriageway.

What's the point in making the effort to give a signal but leaving it so late that the signal is totally useless.

Also those who signal when they pull in from an overtake on a single carriageway road. Doesn't particularly cause any risk, but surely it's obvious they're coming back over, it's not like they're just going to sit on the wrong side of the road for the rest of the journey.

[Solocle]

R56Cooper said:

People who indicate a split-second before they leave a dual carriageway.

What's the point in making the effort to give a signal but leaving it so late that the signal is totally useless.

Also those who signal when they pull in from an overtake on a single carriageway road. Doesn't particularly cause any risk, but surely it's obvious they're coming back over, it's not like they're just going to sit on the wrong side of the road for the rest of the journey.

If there's an oncoming vehicle then it might reassure them that you're expediently completing the manoeuvre, at a distance where they might not be able to adequately resolve the clearance you have from the overtaken vehicle.

[R56Cooper]

Solocle said:

R56Cooper said:

People who indicate a split-second before they leave a dual carriageway.

What's the point in making the effort to give a signal but leaving it so late that the signal is totally useless.

Also those who signal when they pull in from an overtake on a single carriageway road. Doesn't particularly cause any risk, but surely it's obvious they're coming back over, it's not like they're just going to sit on the wrong side of the road for the rest of the journey.

If there's an oncoming vehicle then it might reassure them that you're expediently completing the manoeuvre, at a distance where they might not be able to adequately resolve the clearance you have from the overtaken vehicle.

Fair point in that scenario.

[swisstoni]

R56Cooper said:

Solocle said:

R56Cooper said:

People who indicate a split-second before they leave a dual carriageway.

What's the point in making the effort to give a signal but leaving it so late that the signal is totally useless.

Also those who signal when they pull in from an overtake on a single carriageway road. Doesn't particularly cause any risk, but surely it's obvious they're coming back over, it's not like they're just going to sit on the wrong side of the road for the rest of the journey.

If there's an oncoming vehicle then it might reassure them that you're expediently completing the manoeuvre, at a distance where they might not be able to adequately resolve the clearance you have from the overtaken vehicle.

Fair point in that scenario.

I don’t think people giving perhaps too much information about what they are doing is much of a problem.

[Ron240]

Solocle said:

R56Cooper said:

Also those who signal when they pull in from an overtake on a single carriageway road. Doesn't particularly cause any risk, but surely it's obvious they're coming back over, it's not like they're just going to sit on the wrong side of the road for the rest of the journey.

If there's an oncoming vehicle then it might reassure them that you're expediently completing the manoeuvre, at a distance where they might not be able to adequately resolve the clearance you have from the overtaken vehicle.

Nope I'm not buying that explanation even for a second!
This is the advanced driving section and it is taught in advanced driving that there is no need to indicate left to rejoin the lane you were in after an overtake because it is simply not necessary.
Suggesting that the indication is given for the benefit of oncoming vehicles in the same lane is a real stretch of the imagination.

It is much more likely that the driver is indicating out of habit and this is what they have always done, but they are certainly not doing so out of consideration for oncoming vehicles.
Drivers who indicate of of unconscious habit is a bad thing IMO because they are not putting thought into when and where an indication is required, and in particular who it may benefit.
A perfect example of this is police car chase videos where a vehicle is being pursued at high speed through built up areas, and the driver being chased indicates which way they are about to turn at a junction.
I have seen this happen during hundreds (thousands) of videos, so it is obviously being done out of unconscious habit.

[Solocle]

Ron240 said:

Nope I'm not buying that explanation even for a second!
This is the advanced driving section and it is taught in advanced driving that there is no need to indicate left to rejoin the lane you were in after an overtake because it is simply not necessary.
Suggesting that the indication is given for the benefit of oncoming vehicles in the same lane is a real stretch of the imagination.

This is the advanced driving section - which means not following simple rules, but actually thinking.

"No need to indicate left" is as much dogma as mirror-signal-maneouvre.

Given that MSM is taught in the driving test, then the absence of a signal may mislead the oncoming driver to think that you're not clear, and start to take evasive action. Even if such action is an overreaction, it's entirely forseeable.

Hence, indicating to reassure them is probably best. Now, if they're 1 mile away, it's obviously unnecessary. But there's a window where you can complete the overtake safely, but potentially freak out the oncoming driver if you don't indicate. If you're going to freak them out full stop, then that's not a safe overtake, as they're going to act unpredictably.

[Ron240]

Solocle said:

"No need to indicate left" is as much dogma as mirror-signal-maneouvre.

I think you are looking at this in the wrong way.
Its not a case of teaching that there is no need to indicate, but teaching one to know when there is a need to indicate based on who it could benefit.
All we seem to be disagreeing on here is who the indication is going to benefit.

[Pica-Pica]

Ron240 said:

Solocle said:

"No need to indicate left" is as much dogma as mirror-signal-maneouvre.

I think you are looking at this in the wrong way.
Its not a case of teaching that there is no need to indicate, but teaching one to know when there is a need to indicate based on who it could benefit.
All we seem to be disagreeing on here is who the indication is going to benefit.

There is the additional consideration of who it may confuse, and whether additional ‘clutter’ (the signal) is unhelpful.

[lel]

People that stop about 3 car lengths from traffic lights then slowly creep forwards until it changes, just stop at the fking line and hold still.

[Ron240]

Pica-Pica said:

There is the additional consideration of who it may confuse, and whether additional ‘clutter’ (the signal) is unhelpful.

Yes I completely agree...and this should all be taken into consideration when one makes a conscious decision to indicate or not.

[Ron240]

lel said:

People that stop about 3 car lengths from traffic lights then slowly creep forwards until it changes, just stop at the fking line and hold still.

Yes I would find that annoying.
The ideal way to do it if you can is to time your approach so that stopping is not necessary.

While on the subject of stopping at traffic lights...there is 2 sets very close together in my town that are timed so that when one is at red the other is at green. I am at the first set with a private taxi behind me when the lights change to green but I can see the next set changing to red so I only accelerate to a relatively slow speed and hold it knowing that the next set will likely change to green when I get there, but the taxi behind me apparently wants to keep on accelerating because I see the front of it dip under braking behind me and the driver is tapping his hand on the steering wheel.
He would have no place to go except stopping behind the 2 cars currently waiting at the red light...but by the time we get there which was only around 10 or 15 seconds seconds the lights have changed and we are able to keep on moving without stopping.

[waremark]

lel said:

People that stop about 3 car lengths from traffic lights then slowly creep forwards until it changes, just stop at the fking line and hold still.

Disagree, better to have the best chance of keeping moving.

[waremark]

Ron240 said:

Solocle said:

R56Cooper said:

Also those who signal when they pull in from an overtake on a single carriageway road. Doesn't particularly cause any risk, but surely it's obvious they're coming back over, it's not like they're just going to sit on the wrong side of the road for the rest of the journey.

If there's an oncoming vehicle then it might reassure them that you're expediently completing the manoeuvre, at a distance where they might not be able to adequately resolve the clearance you have from the overtaken vehicle.

Nope I'm not buying that explanation even for a second!
This is the advanced driving section and it is taught in advanced driving that there is no need to indicate left to rejoin the lane you were in after an overtake because it is simply not necessary.
Suggesting that the indication is given for the benefit of oncoming vehicles in the same lane is a real stretch of the imagination.

It is much more likely that the driver is indicating out of habit and this is what they have always done, but they are certainly not doing so out of consideration for oncoming vehicles.
Drivers who indicate of of unconscious habit is a bad thing IMO because they are not putting thought into when and where an indication is required, and in particular who it may benefit.
A perfect example of this is police car chase videos where a vehicle is being pursued at high speed through built up areas, and the driver being chased indicates which way they are about to turn at a junction.
I have seen this happen during hundreds (thousands) of videos, so it is obviously being done out of unconscious habit.

When I indicate left after an overtake as initially advised by one of the best advanced driving coaches I have known it may be to reassure an oncomer.

[Zarco]

waremark said:

lel said:

People that stop about 3 car lengths from traffic lights then slowly creep forwards until it changes, just stop at the fking line and hold still.

Disagree, better to have the best chance of keeping moving.

But they already stopped 3 car lengths back

My pet hate is those that insist on stopping in the bicycle box or past the line.

[Ron240]

R56Cooper said:

People who indicate a split-second before they leave a dual carriageway.

I really hate those steering wheel operated indicators that some cars are fitted with.
It is a completely useless feature so I don't understand why manufacturers continue to offer it.

[Ron240]

waremark said:

When I indicate left after an overtake as initially advised by one of the best advanced driving coaches I have known it may be to reassure an oncomer.

I am curious...do you always indicate left after an overtake when in an oncoming lane or will you make an individual decision based on the circumstances? If the latter then can you list all the factors that influence your decision please?
How many advanced driving coaches do you know?

[8IKERDAVE]

Another is when following someone and they come to a complete stop to let someone out of a side road causing everyone to stop.

This happened to me yesterday and the car behind almost slammed into the back of me. I can ensure I'm at a safe distance but not much I can do about the car behind. Extra irritation if there's a clear gap a few cars back they could have pulled into without causing mayhem!

[FatboyKim]

8IKERDAVE said:

Another is when following someone and they come to a complete stop to let someone out of a side road causing everyone to stop.

This happened to me yesterday and the car behind almost slammed into the back of me. I can ensure I'm at a safe distance but not much I can do about the car behind. Extra irritation if there's a clear gap a few cars back they could have pulled into without causing mayhem!

Very irritating, and the reason I never do it. By continually doing this, it will evolve the braindead drivers to stop in order to allow another drivers out of side roads with just a flash of their high beams.

[waremark]

Ron240 said:

am curious...do you always indicate left after an overtake when in an oncoming lane or will you make an individual decision based on the circumstances? If the latter then can you list all the factors that influence your decision please?
How many advanced driving coaches do you know?

I rarely signal left after an overtake. As with all signalling I am guided by whether I think it may be useful to someone. Another example of signalling left after an overtake would be if I intend to slot into a gap between two vehicles - in which case I will plan to run alongside the gap while signalling. Another might be if a vehicle behind me wants to overtake me after I have overtaken the one in front.

I know or have known too many advanced driving coaches to remember. I can count 7 with whom I have driven over 4 decades who have at some time been High Performance Course coaches and there have been probably rather more others. Why do you ask?

[gdaybruce]

I'm more inclined than I used to be to give a left signal when pulling back in after a motorway overtake. This is because in my part of the world it's now very common for cars to undertake and if someone who has completed an undertake of the same car that I've overtaken then decides to join the lane I'm planning to move into, a signal showing my intention can only be helpful.

In busy traffic it's all too easy not to spot the undertaker who is two lanes in from you. Mirrors generally don't give you that much breadth and even an over the shoulder check might not spot a car coming up fast and who is behind your C pillar when you look.