Irrational Driving behaviours

[Ron240]

waremark said:

Why do you ask?

First of all thanks for your reply.
The reason I asked is because what you said about him being one of the best advanced driving coaches you have known becomes more significant as the total number of known coaches rise.

[Ron240]

gdaybruce said:

I'm more inclined than I used to be to give a left signal when pulling back in after a motorway overtake. This is because in my part of the world it's now very common for cars to undertake and if someone who has completed an undertake of the same car that I've overtaken then decides to join the lane I'm planning to move into, a signal showing my intention can only be helpful.

Good intentions yes, however It all depends on everybody being alert and aware of their surroundings.
I am sure we have all seen examples of 2 cars both indicating and attempting to move into the same lane from different directions at the same time. Or what about the very common one of a vehicle putting on its right indicator and starting to move out at precisely the same moment as it is about to be overtaken by another vehicle.
Dont get me wrong I am not disagreeing with you, because one should always indicate to change lanes when other vehicles are in close proximity.

Edited by Ron240 on Friday 9th September 15:26

[waremark]

Ron240 said:

irst of all thanks for your reply.
The reason I asked is because what you said about him being one of the best advanced driving coaches you have known becomes more significant as the total number of known coaches rise.

The man who gave me that tip is Mike Franey. Sadly he has retired

[Drew106]

Here's an interesting one,

Say person A is pulling up to a T-junction turning right. Person B behind is turning left so pulls up along side. This now blocks the view of the traffic coming from the left for person A, so they have to wait, while the other person drives on because as their side is clear.

This always bothers me.

If I'm behind someone turning right at a T-junction were I'm turning left. I'll not pull my car up along side them straight away, to give them a chance to check the road and make progress if possible.

If person B's side (going left) is clear and person A is unable to proceed, then of course it's OK for person B to proceed past person A.

Not sure if I've been able to articulate that sufficiently, but I tried.

It's just a small courteous act that I rarely see others do.

[R56Cooper]

Drew106 said:

Here's an interesting one,

Say person A is pulling up to a T-junction turning right. Person B behind is turning left so pulls up along side. This now blocks the view of the traffic coming from the left for person A, so they have to wait, while the other person drives on because as their side is clear.

This always bothers me.

If I'm behind someone turning right at a T-junction were I'm turning left. I'll not pull my car up along side them straight away, to give them a chance to check the road and make progress if possible.

If person B's side (going left) is clear and person A is unable to proceed, then of course it's OK for person B to proceed past person A.

Not sure if I've been able to articulate that sufficiently, but I tried.

It's just a small courteous act that I rarely see others do.

I'm with you on that one, winds me up when someone comes hoofing up next to you and blocks your view. Just hang back a second!

[Ron240]

R56Cooper said:

Drew106 said:

Here's an interesting one,

Say person A is pulling up to a T-junction turning right. Person B behind is turning left so pulls up along side. This now blocks the view of the traffic coming from the left for person A, so they have to wait, while the other person drives on because as their side is clear.

This always bothers me.

If I'm behind someone turning right at a T-junction were I'm turning left. I'll not pull my car up along side them straight away, to give them a chance to check the road and make progress if possible.

If person B's side (going left) is clear and person A is unable to proceed, then of course it's OK for person B to proceed past person A.

Not sure if I've been able to articulate that sufficiently, but I tried.

It's just a small courteous act that I rarely see others do.

I'm with you on that one, winds me up when someone comes hoofing up next to you and blocks your view. Just hang back a second!

This is one of those 'ideal world' scenarios.
As much as I understand your viewpoint...in every day reality it is completely unrealistic to expect anybody to follow it.
Drivers are generally only concerned with themselves and where they want to go.

[911hope]

Ron240 said:

es I would find that annoying.
The ideal way to do it if you can is to time your approach so that stopping is not necessary.

While on the subject of stopping at traffic lights...there is 2 sets very close together in my town that are timed so that when one is at red the other is at green. I am at the first set with a private taxi behind me when the lights change to green but I can see the next set changing to red so I only accelerate to a relatively slow speed and hold it knowing that the next set will likely change to green when I get there, but the taxi behind me apparently wants to keep on accelerating because I see the front of it dip under braking behind me and the driver is tapping his hand on the steering wheel.
He would have no place to go except stopping behind the 2 cars currently waiting at the red light...but by the time we get there which was only around 10 or 15 seconds seconds the lights have changed and we are able to keep on moving without stopping.

Meanwhile, several cars behind someone doesn't make it through the first lights, because the first car wants a creep zone.

Edited by 911hope on Friday 16th September 17:22

[911hope]

Ron240 said:

ope I'm not buying that explanation even for a second!
This is the advanced driving section and it is taught in advanced driving that there is no need to indicate left to rejoin the lane you were in after an overtake because it is simply not necessary.
Suggesting that the indication is given for the benefit of oncoming vehicles in the same lane is a real stretch of the imagination.

It is much more likely that the driver is indicating out of habit and this is what they have always done, but they are certainly not doing so out of consideration for oncoming vehicles.
Drivers who indicate of of unconscious habit is a bad thing IMO because they are not putting thought into when and where an indication is required, and in particular who it may benefit.
A perfect example of this is police car chase videos where a vehicle is being pursued at high speed through built up areas, and the driver being chased indicates which way they are about to turn at a junction.
I have seen this happen during hundreds (thousands) of videos, so it is obviously being done out of unconscious habit.

An unconscious habit is not a bad thing, if the habit is a good one. It is unrealistic to expect all people to consider every aspect 100% of the time. Some automatic sequences of operation are a good thing.
Like looking in mirrors every few seconds.

Anyway criticising indication seems silly when failing to indicate is a widespread problem.

[Ron240]

911hope said:

Ron240 said:

The ideal way to do it if you can is to time your approach so that stopping is not necessary.

While on the subject of stopping at traffic lights...there is 2 sets very close together in my town that are timed so that when one is at red the other is at green. I am at the first set with a private taxi behind me when the lights change to green but I can see the next set changing to red so I only accelerate to a relatively slow speed and hold it knowing that the next set will likely change to green when I get there, but the taxi behind me apparently wants to keep on accelerating because I see the front of it dip under braking behind me and the driver is tapping his hand on the steering wheel.
He would have no place to go except stopping behind the 2 cars currently waiting at the red light...but by the time we get there which was only around 10 or 15 seconds seconds the lights have changed and we are able to keep on moving without stopping.

Meanwhile, several cars behind someone doesn't make it through the first lights, because the first car wants a creep zone.

So your driving style is obviously to zoom up to a red traffic light knowing you will need to stop, then brake hard and just sit and wait.
If this is a the case then why are you bothering to read the Advanced Driving section?
I see drivers like you every day on the roads.

A good driver reads the road ahead and anticipates.

[Ron240]

911hope said:

An unconscious habit is not a bad thing, if the habit is a good one.

Signalling out of unconscious habit is not a good thing because the driver is not going through the thought process as to why they are doing it.
It could also mean that proper observation is not being used.
An example is the type of driver that indicates to change lanes for an overtake then moves without checking to see if it is safe to do so. Most of the time the indication will be done out of habit so it is clearly not a good habit.
If only drivers could be taught to use proper observation out of unconscious habit...now that really would be a good thing.

[911hope]

Ron240 said:

ignalling out of unconscious habit is not a good thing because the driver is not going through the thought process as to why they are doing it.
It could also mean that proper observation is not being used.
An example is the type of driver that indicates to change lanes for an overtake then moves without checking to see if it is safe to do so. Most of the time the indication will be done out of habit so it is clearly not a good habit.
If only drivers could be taught to use proper observation out of unconscious habit...now that really would be a good thing.

If anyone thinks they have no habits, they are deluded.

Certainly people should make conscious decisions, but equally we can guarantee that no-one is infallible. Those habits should be good and include checking safety etc.

The habit of checking around you all the time on a motorway is what makes you know when you can do an emergency lane change, for example.

These good habits free the mental capacity to do the extra work in unusual situations.

If anyone thinks everything they do is from first principles, they should think again.

[Ron240]

911hope said:

These good habits free the mental capacity to do the extra work in unusual situations

Such as accelerating up to a red traffic light.

[911hope]

Ron240 said:

o your driving style is obviously to zoom up to a red traffic light knowing you will need to stop, then brake hard and just sit and wait.
If this is a the case then why are you bothering to read the Advanced Driving section?
I see drivers like you every day on the roads.

A good driver reads the road ahead and anticipates.

That's quite an assumption and accusation you have made there. On what basis?

Do you know anything about the person you are accusing to base this on?

Thinking that someone dawdling along, just so they can keep moving is not a good thing. (without a care for the for the effect on others around them), does not allow you to conclude the opposite behaviour.

[911hope]

Ron240 said:

911hope said:

These good habits free the mental capacity to do the extra work in unusual situations

Such as accelerating up to a red traffic light.

You seem to be making things up here!

What happened you your self proclaimed habit of proper observation. If you read what you are responding to, you will find that you didn't observe what you think you did.

[911hope]

Ron240 said:

911hope said:

Ron240 said:

The ideal way to do it if you can is to time your approach so that stopping is not necessary.

While on the subject of stopping at traffic lights...there is 2 sets very close together in my town that are timed so that when one is at red the other is at green. I am at the first set with a private taxi behind me when the lights change to green but I can see the next set changing to red so I only accelerate to a relatively slow speed and hold it knowing that the next set will likely change to green when I get there, but the taxi behind me apparently wants to keep on accelerating because I see the front of it dip under braking behind me and the driver is tapping his hand on the steering wheel.
He would have no place to go except stopping behind the 2 cars currently waiting at the red light...but by the time we get there which was only around 10 or 15 seconds seconds the lights have changed and we are able to keep on moving without stopping.

Meanwhile, several cars behind someone doesn't make it through the first lights, because the first car wants a creep zone.

So your driving style is obviously to zoom up to a red traffic light knowing you will need to stop, then brake hard and just sit and wait.
If this is a the case then why are you bothering to read the Advanced Driving section?
I see drivers like you every day on the roads.

A good driver reads the road ahead and anticipates.

While throwing unfounded accusations, you failed to address your impact on others behind, while dawdling between lights. That road space you selfishly keep ahead of you, is taken away from those behind. Some people my have been prevented from leaving the first lights, so you have the convenience of not stopping.

Edited by 911hope on Friday 16th September 21:17

[Ron240]

911hope said:

Ron240 said:

911hope said:

These good habits free the mental capacity to do the extra work in unusual situations

Such as accelerating up to a red traffic light.

You seem to be making things up here!

What happened you your self proclaimed habit of proper observation. If you read what you are responding to, you will find that you didn't observe what you think you did.

I looked at your post and I honestly thought it was somebody else replying to me and not the same person that I am currently having a running conversation with.
You are not following the thread of the conversation and are not taking things in the correct context.
You do not seem able to detect sarcasm either.

Time to take a break because your cage appears to be rattled.

[911hope]

Ron240 said:

looked at your post and I honestly thought it was somebody else replying to me and not the same person that I am currently having a running conversation with.
You are not following the thread of the conversation and are not taking things in the correct context.
You do not seem able to detect sarcasm either.

Time to take a break because your cage appears to be rattled.

I see...it is all my fault!

You meant to attack someone else, but mistakenly attacked me, several times. That's ok then.

You read a post, then send a harsh response, without justification. Having not noticed who wrote it or the actual content, you then blame the author.

You really must be keen to fight with this other poster. I will have a look to see what that person has done to deserve your attention.

In the meantime, may I suggest proper observation.
It is the "advanced driving" code.

[BlindedByTheLights]

Turning right on a roundabout using the left lane, even if there are two lanes going straight on. Seems to happen more and more.

[PhilAsia]

911hope said:

Ron240 said:

es I would find that annoying.
The ideal way to do it if you can is to time your approach so that stopping is not necessary.

While on the subject of stopping at traffic lights...there is 2 sets very close together in my town that are timed so that when one is at red the other is at green. I am at the first set with a private taxi behind me when the lights change to green but I can see the next set changing to red so I only accelerate to a relatively slow speed and hold it knowing that the next set will likely change to green when I get there, but the taxi behind me apparently wants to keep on accelerating because I see the front of it dip under braking behind me and the driver is tapping his hand on the steering wheel.
He would have no place to go except stopping behind the 2 cars currently waiting at the red light...but by the time we get there which was only around 10 or 15 seconds seconds the lights have changed and we are able to keep on moving without stopping.

Meanwhile, several cars behind someone doesn't make it through the first lights, because the first car wants a creep zone.

Edited by 911hope on Friday 16th September 17:22

You are jumping to conclusions. Ron did not say whether there was a multitude of vehicles behind, all chomping at the bit to get through the traffic lights, that he had not seen. Nor did he state that there was only one car behind, acknowledged by careful and considerate use of the mirrors, and therefore no reason to get a move on..

[FatboyKim]

Is nobody going to mention the fact that many junctions with traffic lights won't switch to green until a car is detected either over a road induction loop or proximity sensor close to the lights? Such sensors will pick up a car up to 65/70m from the unit, so it's a pointless exercise selfishly leaving an enormous gap.