Is overtaking a lost art?
Discussion
coldel said:
Overtaking is not an art I would say, unless you are on a track. Just check a few sensible things and overtake.
Good overtaking requires good technique which can be taught but rarely is, excellent observation and anticipation, and good judgement of speed and distance.Few get much practise.
Not many people overtake well.
waremark said:
coldel said:
Overtaking is not an art I would say, unless you are on a track. Just check a few sensible things and overtake.
Good overtaking requires good technique which can be taught but rarely is, excellent observation and anticipation, and good judgement of speed and distance.Few get much practise.
Not many people overtake well.
I know only a handful of what I would describe as good, interested, capable (not implying special, super or God-like) drivers and all can overtake well.
Most people don't approach driving in a very smooth, integrated way.
Interestingly, a highly qualifed Police driver isn't necessarily a smooth, relaxed, driver.
As a general rule I don't think that many people actually enjoy or are very interested in driving. I always say to my missus that usually if you see a crap car then you will get a crap driver too(not that there is anything wrong with having a crap car by the way).
I just think that if you don't show much interest/put much thought into buying the actual car, then why would you be that interested/put that much thought into actually driving it well either. That is the way I've always seen it anyway.
I just think that if you don't show much interest/put much thought into buying the actual car, then why would you be that interested/put that much thought into actually driving it well either. That is the way I've always seen it anyway.
cerb4.5lee said:
As a general rule I don't think that many people actually enjoy or are very interested in driving. I always say to my missus that usually if you see a crap car then you will get a crap driver too(not that there is anything wrong with having a crap car by the way).
I just think that if you don't show much interest/put much thought into buying the actual car, then why would you be that interested/put that much thought into actually driving it well either. That is the way I've always seen it anyway.
I'm a long-term interested driver, who has tried to constantly improve and driven all kinds of things in all kinds of places on various continents. I would regard myself as a decent road driver.I just think that if you don't show much interest/put much thought into buying the actual car, then why would you be that interested/put that much thought into actually driving it well either. That is the way I've always seen it anyway.
I often drive (and enjoy) a 16 year old Fiesta 1.4, a freebie from my Mum. You may just see a crap car.
MC Bodge said:
I often drive (and enjoy) a 16 year old Fiesta 1.4, a freebie from my Mum. You may just see a crap car.
A Fiesta, crap? Great car, a bit old.You may get great drivers in crap cars, you certainly get crap drivers in great cars!
Lots of car enthusiasts think they are great drivers, but actually have no interest in the driving. People spend a fortune on their cars, but devote no time or money to improving their driving skills.
Cars and driving are separate hobbies - and I have both of those hobbies.
cerb4.5lee said:
As a general rule I don't think that many people actually enjoy or are very interested in driving. I always say to my missus that usually if you see a crap car then you will get a crap driver too(not that there is anything wrong with having a crap car by the way).
I just think that if you don't show much interest/put much thought into buying the actual car, then why would you be that interested/put that much thought into actually driving it well either. That is the way I've always seen it anyway.
I think there's a bit more to it than that, myself.I just think that if you don't show much interest/put much thought into buying the actual car, then why would you be that interested/put that much thought into actually driving it well either. That is the way I've always seen it anyway.
If by "crap" we're talking, as enthusiasts, about cars that are crap to drive - uninvolving, hopelessly slow, poor driving position, numb controls or some combination of the aforementioned...
Sure, these sorts of whitegoods vehicles are probably overrepresented as the transportation of choice of crap drivers - Qashqai's come immediately to mind as a good example, awful to drive and quite likely to be driven badly.
But then you get other cars which are actually pretty decent but still wind up in the hands of plenty of crap drivers... Cars that are perhaps status symbols in the minds of their owners, and/or fashion accessories... Mini's come to mind, despite being easy and fun to drive, I seem to see an awful lot of them driven badly - equally the ubiquitous BMW's and Audi's with disabled indicators and limited comprehension of what represent safe/reasonable overtakes, etc.
Whilst no rule of this kind is ever without exception, I do think there's something in it... Albeit there will always be exceptions in both directions.
Brassblaster said:
Whilst no rule of this kind is ever without exception, I do think there's something in it... Albeit there will always be exceptions in both directions.
Definitely. 
There are poor drivers in all types/kinds of cars for sure. I'm never a fan of stereotypes when it comes to cars, but there is certainly some truth in it though I reckon.
cerb4.5lee said:
Brassblaster said:
Whilst no rule of this kind is ever without exception, I do think there's something in it... Albeit there will always be exceptions in both directions.
Definitely. There are poor drivers in all types/kinds of cars for sure. I'm never a fan of stereotypes when it comes to cars, but there is certainly some truth in it though I reckon.
The crap tyres fitted to many powerful cars is quite interesting, though. Our old Fiesta has decent tyres fitted.
waremark said:
coldel said:
Overtaking is not an art I would say, unless you are on a track. Just check a few sensible things and overtake.
Good overtaking requires good technique which can be taught but rarely is, excellent observation and anticipation, and good judgement of speed and distance.Few get much practise.
Not many people overtake well.
What you could argue is that the style of overtake now has changed, overtaking in cars with on average about 150bhp 20 years ago vs many performance cars with 350hp+ on tap is a whole different ball game.
ATM said:
I occasionally overtake but I do feel like other road users don't like it. Not sure why. I also worry about webcam heroes submitting footage to the boys in blue. So i do feel naughty or as if i am pushing my luck when I do it.
I recently bought a Van. I was driving it recently and someone over took me. I was actually quite pleased. It definitely gave me a sense that its not just me overtaking. Other people are clearly doing it too.
I have a few faster cars. And I occasionally drive with my friends in the car. Some of them are just outright scared by any feeling of g force whether it be forward, backward or sideways. Now I am not saying I balloon round like an idiot. We are talking built up areas and other traffic on the roads here. I might go onto a round about a bit faster than they are use to and this will mean turning at speeds they are not used to and feeling some lateral g force. Some of them just immediately panic. Its go to the point where I refuse to drive with one of these friends because he is just so nervous. And this makes me anxious when I drive with him. I never know if I am doing what he wants or what he expects and I am on pins. So he has to drive us. He doesn't drive slowly but he does tend to go round bends slower than me, enters round abouts at pedestrian speeds and is much gentler on the brakes unnecessarily so. He has a BMW and we joke that when I am in his car he needs to pout it in sport mode. Not that this makes much difference obviously.I recently bought a Van. I was driving it recently and someone over took me. I was actually quite pleased. It definitely gave me a sense that its not just me overtaking. Other people are clearly doing it too.
coldel said:
That doesnt make it an 'art' though. Its something that can be taught relatively quickly and can be done without training if you observe a few simple safety precautions. Its not an art for that takes dedicated practice and serious investment of time.
What you could argue is that the style of overtake now has changed, overtaking in cars with on average about 150bhp 20 years ago vs many performance cars with 350hp+ on tap is a whole different ball game.
I agree that overtaking is not an "art". It does not require special skills..just some common sense and god judgement to minimise risk.What you could argue is that the style of overtake now has changed, overtaking in cars with on average about 150bhp 20 years ago vs many performance cars with 350hp+ on tap is a whole different ball game.
I'd argue that average rod speeds are actually lower these days, with congestion and lower limits. So the issue is mostly about finding safe opportunities. If you have a more powerful car, it allows the manoeuvre to be completed more quickly, so more safe.
Brassblaster said:
Quite simple, and should be obvious to any petrolhead...
A huge performance deficit on the part of the overtaking car - and an attitude of "yea if you think you've got the power" on the part of the car attempting to be overtaken.
Having (a good few years back) gotten stuck behind a Bentley continental that dithered through a modestly twisty section of road at a good 15-20mph slower than I'd have driven it at that time of the evening... Went to overtake it on the straight despite being in a smallish hatch with <100hp.
No amount of realistic run-up matters with that kind of power delta - if the ATGNI (all the gear, no idea) driver in the Bentley doesn't want to let you past, it's simply not happening... And of course, it didn't.... And of course the modestly twisty section not much further along the road I was (again) held up by driving that can only be described as pathetic.
Most of the time it's simply clearly cars speeding up and making it harder for you to get back over...
And for the sake of the thread, that's more than relevant enough.
Sadly, it's far more common than it should be, too - straight up dangerous driving.
How common would you say it is in terms of % of your overtake attempts?A huge performance deficit on the part of the overtaking car - and an attitude of "yea if you think you've got the power" on the part of the car attempting to be overtaken.
Having (a good few years back) gotten stuck behind a Bentley continental that dithered through a modestly twisty section of road at a good 15-20mph slower than I'd have driven it at that time of the evening... Went to overtake it on the straight despite being in a smallish hatch with <100hp.
No amount of realistic run-up matters with that kind of power delta - if the ATGNI (all the gear, no idea) driver in the Bentley doesn't want to let you past, it's simply not happening... And of course, it didn't.... And of course the modestly twisty section not much further along the road I was (again) held up by driving that can only be described as pathetic.
Most of the time it's simply clearly cars speeding up and making it harder for you to get back over...
And for the sake of the thread, that's more than relevant enough.
Sadly, it's far more common than it should be, too - straight up dangerous driving.
LukeBrown66 said:
My theory is that there is a group of drivers that either like having a clear view in front of them with no traffic, or simply like holding up cars, I think that one can be explained away as not knowing the speed limit or not having the confidence to drive at that limit, you have to remember speed limits are not just there for safety, they have been approved by all sorts of people for that speed limit at that location, dependent on accidents, issues etc. A NSA sign is not a target, but there is no reason why most modern cars for decades can drive at that speed in most areas of a NSA road, the road has been approved as safe to drive on that speed. However that does not mean most drivers believe this is possible. A grey area clearly and also not one you can prove.
But this accelerating while being passed is a thing, it happens a lot, and is a sort of speed limit vigilante type deal. A lot of people do it, and hate being passed, as they either think they are or want to be the HOLY protector of speed limits, you know what I mean, no matter where you pass them, it is likely if you pass them safely, you might have been closer to them than they liked at various times, hence this attitude. Some people are just like that.
if someone is clearly wanting to overtake me, I will let them past when I can, not speed up if they overtake, then flash and wave fingers at them as if they have done something horribly wrong.
Nation speed limit does NOT mean that it is approved as safe to drive at 60 mph. It simply means a lower limit has not been set.But this accelerating while being passed is a thing, it happens a lot, and is a sort of speed limit vigilante type deal. A lot of people do it, and hate being passed, as they either think they are or want to be the HOLY protector of speed limits, you know what I mean, no matter where you pass them, it is likely if you pass them safely, you might have been closer to them than they liked at various times, hence this attitude. Some people are just like that.
if someone is clearly wanting to overtake me, I will let them past when I can, not speed up if they overtake, then flash and wave fingers at them as if they have done something horribly wrong.
There are many thousands of miles of rural road, where NSL applies. Many of these cannot be driven at 60mph.
Often it would be physically impossible ( no matter what the car ), and very dangerous if it were possible.
theplayingmantis said:
911hope said:
How is it possible for someone to speed up and hamper an overtake, if the cars are already parallel. You, executing the planned and well executed overtake should have been accelerating for a second or two already and should have about 10 m/s speed differential, so should be parallel for less than a second.
Unless they have lightning reactions and a significantly faster car, it isn't possible.
Do you actually drive?Unless they have lightning reactions and a significantly faster car, it isn't possible.
Actually please don't answer. I'm not going to engage with you again as you are here for one purpose evidenced in multiple threads, and shame on me for playing your game. Pigeon chess. Have fun with it.
I have a t
t that tries to block me overtaking EVERY morning I see without fail...
He tries his best to speed up and sometimes if he sees me early enough even swerves across the road to try and stop me.
He nearly caught me out 1 morning as he changed his car.. and now has something "fast" but still has no chance.
I just hope it's something personal against me and he isn't doing to other road users...
I always give him a cheery wave on my way by too... nice to be nice and all that.
t that tries to block me overtaking EVERY morning I see without fail...He tries his best to speed up and sometimes if he sees me early enough even swerves across the road to try and stop me.
He nearly caught me out 1 morning as he changed his car.. and now has something "fast" but still has no chance.
I just hope it's something personal against me and he isn't doing to other road users...
I always give him a cheery wave on my way by too... nice to be nice and all that.
Most people don't even change down when going around a tractor, so their exposed time in the other lane is much longer than it should be. This is even worse when the 1 or 2 cars behind decide to follow that car instead of checking if anything is coming themselves. It's all so tragic.
P675 said:
Most people don't even change down when going around a tractor, so their exposed time in the other lane is much longer than it should be. This is even worse when the 1 or 2 cars behind decide to follow that car instead of checking if anything is coming themselves. It's all so tragic.
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