Indicate left after overtaking, or lane change on a motorway

[Muddle238]

Sometimes indicating to return to L1 when you have closely following vehicles behind causes them to gun it past, often while you're still in the process of changing lanes. My OH had it years and years ago, a squadron of HGVs in L1 and L2 overtaking each other. She was in L3, doing the best she could with her little car to get past promptly, white van tailgating her. When she eventually got past the line of trucks in L2, she indicated back to L1 and as she was straddling the lane markings, an HGV in L1 decides to pull out. She tries to abort the lane change and return to L3, however the white van is already trying to pull past, effectively squeezing her into the lorry. Now while she would have been better off sticking in L3 until past the pair of lorries in L1, I can see why she felt pressured by the aggressive nature of the van driver to "get out of his way", especially as a new driver at the time and new to motorway driving.

As such, if I have drivers following closely behind, I will promptly pass traffic but I won't indicate back in, as the amber flashing light on a car seems to mean the same thing as a green traffic light to some drivers, who will start closing the already small gap even further through impatience. If you don't indicate, and just move back, you effectively catch the following drivers by surprise and give yourself more space to move back without them registering that in a few seconds they'll have a clear lane ahead.

[V10leptoquark]

In the context of the OP question, indicating means that you convey your intention to change lane.
Indicate right to change lane from lane 1 to 2 - once in lane 2 cancel indication - then overtake.
Indicate left to change lane from lane 2 to 1 - once in lane 1 cancel indication - to return to default 'configuration' for continued motorway travel.

I think we should all be doing this instead of becoming a bit 'lazy'.

Being a bit lazy in one area of driving leads on to being lazy in other areas of driving - if one develops a mind set that being lazy is ok, this extends or becomes acceptable to everything that you do behind the wheel.

[shakotan]

Jon39 said:

This might now be taught during the driving test, but I only indicate left when the move needs to be communicated to following drivers. Am I correct?

An example where to me, it would appear to be unnecessary.
Light traffic on a motorway. You indicate a move from lane 1 to lane 2, in order to overtake a large HGV. After the overtake has been completed, and there is generous space in front of the lorry, I return to lane 1 without indicating. The only vehicle of concern is the HGV which I have just overtaken, and that can hardly be expected to quickly accelerate to close the gap between us.
Some drivers do indicate left after such a manoeuvre, and I wonder why they do it.

Any comments?

I indicate left if moving from L3 to L2 (or L4 to L3 etc), but not from L2 to L1 UNLESS there is someone behind/gaining in my departure lane, therefore I indicate in order to let them know I'm moving out of the their path and they can consider their progress accordingly.

Edited by shakotan on Thursday 18th July 11:24

[toon10]

It's just common courtesy to indicate left after an overtake to let the car you've passed know that you're about to pull back into their lane. It keeps them alert. It was how I was taught and with the modern indicators auto stopping after 3 flashes, it takes no real effort. I find it a bit ignorant when someones passed me than just pulls in, although not enough to lose any sleep over it.

People not doing it is just another example of modern driving standards slipping compared to the 90's when I first passed my test. I'll add it to the list including not indicating on roundabouts when you're waiting but don't need to as they are turning off before reaching you, pulling out of slip roads assuming you'll brake / accelerate to let them in rather than waiting for you to be courteous and letting them in first, etc.

[Dr Jekyll]

toon10 said:

It's just common courtesy to indicate left after an overtake to let the car you've passed know that you're about to pull back into their lane. It keeps them alert. .

If you want to keep someone alert, try sounding the horn, or waving, or winding the windows down and playing 'Ride of the Valkyries' at full volume.
Indicators are to help or warn, your move back lane 1 is clearly predictable and shouldn't affect them in the slightest in any case.

[toon10]

Dr Jekyll said:

If you want to keep someone alert, try sounding the horn, or waving, or winding the windows down and playing 'Ride of the Valkyries' at full volume.
Indicators are to help or warn, your move back lane 1 is clearly predictable and shouldn't affect them in the slightest in any case.

I'm not sure why I'd go around driving and sounding my horn but thanks for the useful advice. Moving back into lane 1 isn't predictable, many cars pull out, overtake and sit in lane 2 for miles.

A quick google brings up the following

"Once you’ve overtaken and built up a safe distance from the car in the left-hand lane, check your mirrors and left-hand blind spot, and when it is safe, indicate before moving back into the lane. You should always indicate when changing lanes, unless there is no traffic within sight – there’s little point signalling to nobody." - Source https://www.driving.co.uk/car-clinic/advice/advice...

Just because you don't do it doesn't mean you are not supposed to or that it's not impolite not to. I'm happy to be corrected if the highway code now suggests that you don't need to indicate to change lanes these days but that was the guidance when I took my test.

[Torquey]

Its a matter of moving your index finger 2 inches. I don't know why you wouldn't unless you are trying to get the most out of your indicator bulbs.

I do indicate left in case my average awareness has failed on that occasion and someone has managed to get close without me noticing. It may just give them half a chance to avoid me. I'm sure that's never been a problem for those with ultra superior awareness though.

[henrycrun]

Every day, M/way motorists crash without indicating - L1 to L2, simultaneously with those moving from L3 to L2.

I'd make it mandatory, it's gotta be worth a punt in to reduce KSI on UK motorways. (And hold-ups, but that's a minor concern).

Edited by henrycrun on Thursday 18th July 12:21

[SpeckledJim]

Torquey said:

Its a matter of moving your index finger 2 inches. I don't know why you wouldn't unless you are trying to get the most out of your indicator bulbs.

I do indicate left in case my average awareness has failed on that occasion and someone has managed to get close without me noticing. It may just give them half a chance to avoid me. I'm sure that's never been a problem for those with ultra superior awareness though.

But if you've usefully recognised that sometimes your observations are not up to scratch, then why opt for a flashing light as a pretty flimsy safety net, instead of just making sure your observations ARE up to scratch?

[Frankthered]

Muddle238 said:

Sometimes indicating to return to L1 when you have closely following vehicles behind causes them to gun it past, often while you're still in the process of changing lanes. My OH had it years and years ago, a squadron of HGVs in L1 and L2 overtaking each other. She was in L3, doing the best she could with her little car to get past promptly, white van tailgating her. When she eventually got past the line of trucks in L2, she indicated back to L1 and as she was straddling the lane markings, an HGV in L1 decides to pull out. She tries to abort the lane change and return to L3, however the white van is already trying to pull past, effectively squeezing her into the lorry. Now while she would have been better off sticking in L3 until past the pair of lorries in L1, I can see why she felt pressured by the aggressive nature of the van driver to "get out of his way", especially as a new driver at the time and new to motorway driving.

As such, if I have drivers following closely behind, I will promptly pass traffic but I won't indicate back in, as the amber flashing light on a car seems to mean the same thing as a green traffic light to some drivers, who will start closing the already small gap even further through impatience. If you don't indicate, and just move back, you effectively catch the following drivers by surprise and give yourself more space to move back without them registering that in a few seconds they'll have a clear lane ahead.

My experience of situations like this is that if I don't indicate then there is a big chance that the muppet behind will move left and try to pass me on the left, getting very upset when I then move left myself without signaling. Therefore, I tend to signal when moving left on motorways and dual carriageways to give maximum clarity to those around me. If the vehicle I have just passed is literally the only one in sight, then I might not bother, but TBH, I can't remember the last time that happened!!

I do agree with the OP that it shouldn't really be necessary, we should all move left when the pass is complete (but many don't) and people shouldn't be overtaking on the left (but many do).

[Ed/L152]

SpeckledJim said:

But if you've usefully recognised that sometimes your observations are not up to scratch, then why opt for a flashing light as a pretty flimsy safety net, instead of just making sure your observations ARE up to scratch?

There's always potential for observation failure and the habit of always signalling an intention will mitigate against this risk.

[Torquey]

SpeckledJim said:

Torquey said:

Its a matter of moving your index finger 2 inches. I don't know why you wouldn't unless you are trying to get the most out of your indicator bulbs.

I do indicate left in case my average awareness has failed on that occasion and someone has managed to get close without me noticing. It may just give them half a chance to avoid me. I'm sure that's never been a problem for those with ultra superior awareness though.

But if you've usefully recognised that sometimes your observations are not up to scratch, then why opt for a flashing light as a pretty flimsy safety net, instead of just making sure your observations ARE up to scratch?

I haven't recognised they are not up to scratch. So far they are 100% up to scratch but that could be skewed by the flimsy safety net. I guess we'll never know.

[Jon39]

Muddle238 said:

As such, if I have drivers following closely behind, I will promptly pass traffic but I won't indicate back in, as the amber flashing light on a car seems to mean the same thing as a green traffic light to some drivers, who will start closing the already small gap even further through impatience. If you don't indicate, and just move back, you effectively catch the following drivers by surprise and give yourself more space to move back without them registering that in a few seconds they'll have a clear lane ahead.

Here is a technique which I sometimes use, when in exactly the situation you describe. Overtaking a line of traffic, outside lane of motorway, a vehicle behind appearing to want to overtake me at the earliest opportunity.

Reduce speed slightly, but still going faster than the line of traffic being overtaken. If applicable that should create a greater gap ahead of my car. Just before the point of completing my overtake, whilst still going in a straight line, accelerate hard and create a much bigger gap to the vehicle following. Then complete the manoeuvre by reducing speed and returning to the inside lane.

The following vehicle has been unable to undertake because of the line of traffic, and it ensures I can keep well away from the following vehicle at the moment it passes me. Obviously a car with an 'adequate' reserve of power is needed to do this safely.

[Lily the Pink]

To all you automatons who always indicate regardless of need, I assume you're amongst those morons who sit in a right-hand lane which is only going right and yet you still have your indicator going, thus adding to the visual "noise" on the roads ?

[InitialDave]

Lily the Pink said:

To all you automatons who always indicate regardless of need, I assume you're amongst those morons who sit in a right-hand lane which is only going right and yet you still have your indicator going, thus adding to the visual "noise" on the roads ?

You seen to misunderstand the reasons why people choose to always indicate. You don't have to agree with them, but you should at least comprehend them, rather than these mischaracterisations of "automatons" and "laziness" that seem to abound when this subject is raised.

I find more reassurance in a driving philosophy that recognises your own limitations and fallability than I do with what comes across as an attitude of "well your observations should be good enough to be able to not indicate when it's unnecessary, and if you're indicating unnecessarily then clearly they're not".

Sure, they probably should be, but we're all only human.

I take the always indicate philosophy to be more "observe properly then do it anyway" rather than "do it because you don't observe properly".

[SpeckledJim]

Ed/L152 said:

SpeckledJim said:

But if you've usefully recognised that sometimes your observations are not up to scratch, then why opt for a flashing light as a pretty flimsy safety net, instead of just making sure your observations ARE up to scratch?

There's always potential for observation failure and the habit of always signalling an intention will mitigate against this risk.

And, by giving you the illusion of a safety net, encourage lazy obs.

Good obs don't need a safety net. Only lazy obs do.

[SpeckledJim]

Torquey said:

SpeckledJim said:

Torquey said:

Its a matter of moving your index finger 2 inches. I don't know why you wouldn't unless you are trying to get the most out of your indicator bulbs.

I do indicate left in case my average awareness has failed on that occasion and someone has managed to get close without me noticing. It may just give them half a chance to avoid me. I'm sure that's never been a problem for those with ultra superior awareness though.

But if you've usefully recognised that sometimes your observations are not up to scratch, then why opt for a flashing light as a pretty flimsy safety net, instead of just making sure your observations ARE up to scratch?

I haven't recognised they are not up to scratch. So far they are 100% up to scratch but that could be skewed by the flimsy safety net. I guess we'll never know.

Sorry, I've misunderstood this part then.

[Dixy]

Indication should be used where there is a choice, I intend to turn left, I intend to move out to overtake etc. Staying in an overtaking position is not a choice it is a sign of incompetence. Indicating you are moving back to the left is as incorrect as indicating you are going to pass a parked car.

[Foss62]

Ed/L152 said:

SpeckledJim said:

But if you've usefully recognised that sometimes your observations are not up to scratch, then why opt for a flashing light as a pretty flimsy safety net, instead of just making sure your observations ARE up to scratch?

There's always potential for observation failure and the habit of always signalling an intention will mitigate against this risk.

Except that indicating inappropriately can also be dangerous, so automatic signalling is not risk free. This is an ‘Advanced Driving’ section and, broadly speaking, the organisations that promote ‘Advanced Driving’ expect actions to be considered and part of a driving plan that includes good observation.

[BOR]

I rarely even indicate right to overtake, let alone left to pull back in.

You can see how fast I'm closing on the next car in my lane, what exactly do you think is going to happen next ?