4 wheel drive & the real world
Discussion
I've owned loads of FWD cars, I presently drive a 4WD Hilux company car.
I own a 4WD performance car (my true love of all things car) and 3 rear wheel drive cars.
4WD is not needed in the real world unless you live outside the UK in a country which experiences severe weather, or work/live/hobby in difficult to get to places.
As for whats the best/fastest it's all irrelevant!
Even in my 'crap in the snow Mercedes', the only thing that stops me from moving is the person ten cars ahead stuck who cannot drive, and that person could be in a Discovery or other 4x4 or anything.
I own a 4WD performance car (my true love of all things car) and 3 rear wheel drive cars.
4WD is not needed in the real world unless you live outside the UK in a country which experiences severe weather, or work/live/hobby in difficult to get to places.
As for whats the best/fastest it's all irrelevant!
Even in my 'crap in the snow Mercedes', the only thing that stops me from moving is the person ten cars ahead stuck who cannot drive, and that person could be in a Discovery or other 4x4 or anything.
sleep envy said:
XXL to deal with your insecurity.
They'd be too tight. sleep envy said:
Why would you want to be going faster than you think is suitable on public road in poor conditions?
Why are you asking me that? Have I mentioned going too fast for the conditions? I'm talking "everyday folk who are bored of their performance car wheelspinning in the wet when pulling out of a junction or during a nippy overtake". As mentioned above.sleep envy said:
Neither can I say I've ever had the need to buy a car to use on public roads with a different transmission dependent on the season.
Good for you. It's not just about you though, is it?Boobonman said:
Would a RWD car accelerate faster and be able to deploy its power better than a FWD one in poor conditions?
Could the driver of the Focus ST accuse the driver of the 330i of trying to go faster than is suitable?
Could the driver of the 330i ask the driver of the S4 the same?
Of course a 4x4 car will lay its power down better, I think you are being deliberately obtuse.
And you're deliberately missing the point, why would someone want to be going faster in poor conditions on the road?Could the driver of the Focus ST accuse the driver of the 330i of trying to go faster than is suitable?
Could the driver of the 330i ask the driver of the S4 the same?
Of course a 4x4 car will lay its power down better, I think you are being deliberately obtuse.
goldblum said:
Why are you asking me that? Have I mentioned going too fast for the conditions? I'm talking "everyday folk who are bored of their performance car wheelspinning in the wet when pulling out of a junction or during a nippy overtake". As mentioned above.
Because that's the point 300bhp/t was making...nickfrog said:
This is good too RWD and winter tyres VS 4WD and summer tyres on snow http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STaximkaQxo
So much for the superiority of 4wd on snow although obviously 4wd+winters would be the perfect belt and braces snow/ice/cold solution. Farcical in most of the UK IMO.
I've seen that one before, the RE070 is a fairly extreme performance tyre, not what you would usually put on something like a Forester. A test using a more normal tyre would be much more interesting. I notice they don't mention how much tread is on the various tyres either.So much for the superiority of 4wd on snow although obviously 4wd+winters would be the perfect belt and braces snow/ice/cold solution. Farcical in most of the UK IMO.
Its impressive that it moved at all uphill on snow with a summer compound and tread pattern like that!
Edited by GravelBen on Friday 31st January 09:00
uk_vette said:
.
.
When any one mentions "four wheel drive" this should only be considered with the phrase, Land Cruiser, Land Rover, Patrol, and the like.
four wheel drive cars are pathetic, sorry to say,
get rid of it, and buy a proper four wheel drive.
vette
About as wrong as it's possible to be..
When any one mentions "four wheel drive" this should only be considered with the phrase, Land Cruiser, Land Rover, Patrol, and the like.
four wheel drive cars are pathetic, sorry to say,
get rid of it, and buy a proper four wheel drive.
vette
sleep envy said:
goldblum said:
Why are you asking me that? Have I mentioned going too fast for the conditions? I'm talking "everyday folk who are bored of their performance car wheelspinning in the wet when pulling out of a junction or during a nippy overtake". As mentioned above.
Because that's the point 300bhp/t was making...You are wrong anyway.
so, could it be argued that for the general, non driving gods, 4WD is actually more dangerous in the snow because people can go faster than a 2WD car but cant hope to scrub off the speed?
This means that there will be 4WD cars going faster than they would in a 2WD in situations where the braking isn't anywhere as superior as they would be thinking?
This means that there will be 4WD cars going faster than they would in a 2WD in situations where the braking isn't anywhere as superior as they would be thinking?
Pixelpeep said:
so, could it be argued that for the general, non driving gods, 4WD is actually more dangerous in the snow because people can go faster than a 2WD car but cant hope to scrub off the speed?
This means that there will be 4WD cars going faster than they would in a 2WD in situations where the braking isn't anywhere as superior as they would be thinking?
Yes.This means that there will be 4WD cars going faster than they would in a 2WD in situations where the braking isn't anywhere as superior as they would be thinking?
doogz said:
Alternatively, 4WD is safer, as they'll stop at the same rate as a 2WD car travelling at the same speed, but will retain more control over the attitude and direction of the car and will be better equipped to steer around whatever obstacle may present itself.
Not if they are on the brakes and off the power.And the big, safe-feeling 4WDs (LRs and Jeeps etc etc) weigh considerably more than 'normal' cars, and momentum is not your friend in ice and snow.
Pixelpeep said:
so, could it be argued that for the general, non driving gods, 4WD is actually more dangerous in the snow because people can go faster than a 2WD car but cant hope to scrub off the speed?
This means that there will be 4WD cars going faster than they would in a 2WD in situations where the braking isn't anywhere as superior as they would be thinking?
Why would they think their braking is in any way superior? A 4WD on summers in snow gets going a little easier than winters but doesn't instil any more confidence. Most will realise that the first time they slow brake. This means that there will be 4WD cars going faster than they would in a 2WD in situations where the braking isn't anywhere as superior as they would be thinking?
Orangecurry said:
doogz said:
Alternatively, 4WD is safer, as they'll stop at the same rate as a 2WD car travelling at the same speed, but will retain more control over the attitude and direction of the car and will be better equipped to steer around whatever obstacle may present itself.
Not if they are on the brakes and off the power.And the big, safe-feeling 4WDs (LRs and Jeeps etc etc) weigh considerably more than 'normal' cars, and momentum is not your friend in ice and snow.
more weight on smaller tyre footprint helps, and assuming we are not talking BMW X5 style tyres, most big 4x4's are on proportionally smaller tyres (for their weight).
Orangecurry said:
doogz said:
Alternatively, 4WD is safer, as they'll stop at the same rate as a 2WD car travelling at the same speed, but will retain more control over the attitude and direction of the car and will be better equipped to steer around whatever obstacle may present itself.
Not if they are on the brakes and off the power.And the big, safe-feeling 4WDs (LRs and Jeeps etc etc) weigh considerably more than 'normal' cars, and momentum is not your friend in ice and snow.
doogz said:
Alternatively, 4WD is safer, as they'll stop at the same rate as a 2WD car travelling at the same speed, but will retain more control over the attitude and direction of the car and will be better equipped to steer around whatever obstacle may present itself.
Off the throttle I don't know if a 4wd keeps "distributing" engine braking through 4 wheels so as to optimise available traction but the brakes would absorb most of that available longitudinal adhesion anyway, up to the ABS trigger point so I don't how much more control you would have.nickfrog said:
doogz said:
Alternatively, 4WD is safer, as they'll stop at the same rate as a 2WD car travelling at the same speed, but will retain more control over the attitude and direction of the car and will be better equipped to steer around whatever obstacle may present itself.
Off the throttle I don't know if a 4wd keeps "distributing" engine braking through 4 wheels so as to optimise available traction but the brakes would absorb most of that available longitudinal adhesion anyway, up to the ABS trigger point so I don't how much more control you would have.one of the benefits of proper ones with centre diffs that are lockable is that by locking the centre diff, you have effectively linked the front and rear brakes, so makes locking individual wheels harder (and in the dry, transfers a fair bit of the fronts brake capacity to the rears)
Scuffers said:
as said, 4WD does not negate the need for decent tyres, no matter if that's winters for snow/ice or decent 'normal' tyres for wet roads...
(to this end, my S4 currently has a set of winters on it, little to do with being able to move, more about being able to stop!)
Can I also add 'and driving ability'? I lived in rural Perthshire for 5 years, about 10 miles for the nearest treated road. First winter I was there I stuck a FWD car in a drainage ditch...soon learned how to drive in snow and ice, and also bought an SJ413 as a second car (don't laugh, I know they are hairdresserie but they also have proper transfer 4wd boxes!) Anyway, TWICE during my time there I rescued people who had stuffed 'proper' 4x4s (a Freelander and a Disco) because they assumed they could do anything in snow. (to this end, my S4 currently has a set of winters on it, little to do with being able to move, more about being able to stop!)
Scuffers said:
nickfrog said:
doogz said:
Alternatively, 4WD is safer, as they'll stop at the same rate as a 2WD car travelling at the same speed, but will retain more control over the attitude and direction of the car and will be better equipped to steer around whatever obstacle may present itself.
Off the throttle I don't know if a 4wd keeps "distributing" engine braking through 4 wheels so as to optimise available traction but the brakes would absorb most of that available longitudinal adhesion anyway, up to the ABS trigger point so I don't how much more control you would have.one of the benefits of proper ones with centre diffs that are lockable is that by locking the centre diff, you have effectively linked the front and rear brakes, so makes locking individual wheels harder (and in the dry, transfers a fair bit of the fronts brake capacity to the rears)
Scuffers said:
yes and no...
more weight on smaller tyre footprint helps, and assuming we are not talking BMW X5 style tyres, most big 4x4's are on proportionally smaller tyres (for their weight).
yes and no... more weight on smaller tyre footprint helps, and assuming we are not talking BMW X5 style tyres, most big 4x4's are on proportionally smaller tyres (for their weight).
No - Most big 4x4s I see are on stupidly large and wide wheel/tyresets.
Yes - more weight on smaller tyre footprint helps - depending on the surface (again).
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