Gearchange video

[R_U_LOCAL]

advanceddriver said:

R_U_LOCAL said:

Can I politely suggest you read some more of my articles before commenting further?

Just search under my username and read two posts that I've started in this thread.

If you do that, and you don't learn at least one useful thing, then I'll take your criticism on board and I'll stop posting.

But you have to be honest in your reply.

I've read the previous "Zen art of gear changing"........for those with less time than me I will sumarise

If you match the engine revs to appropriate road speed you too could be a police driving god!

You can read?

Go you! Your carers must be so proud.

[advanceddriver]

Haha you really are a policeman aren't you!

[R_U_LOCAL]

advanceddriver said:

Haha you really are a policeman aren't you!

Haha you really only joined the site to post your inane drivel in this thread didn't you?

[Vaux]

R_U_LOCAL said:

Vaux said:

My RoSPA Observer/Tutor always preferred not changing gear with an oncoming vehicle near - something to do with having two hands steering.

It's honestly not something that I've ever come across before. On todays roads, it doesn't really leave much scope for changing gear, does it? I understand the theory, but practically speaking, I find that wholly unecessary. It's certainly not something that I've come across being taught at any Police driving schools. *Awaits correction by VH*

Of course it might not be practical - holding second gear at 50/60 waiting for a line of vehicles to pass! But it's a concept that is valid from a safety point of view per RoSPA.

R_U_LOCAL said:

Vaux said:

At 1:53 you go for the gear lever but don't do anything with it - very picky WB! (But I've been pulled up for this too, by AD purists!)

Yes, you're right, I did. But in reality, all the gearchanges towards the end of the video were unecessary - it was a little excersise that I get students to do. Change gear randomly whilst maintaining a given road speed. I was merely demonstrating a smooth third to third gearchange.

But there's a difference in going for a gearchange and not doing it and changing gear for fun/practice - I'm having to do a lot of that as I've changed to a diesel and the revs seem to drop off very quickly during "blipping" - to the point where I "have" to employ sustained revs.

But, it's easy to criticize! Well done for putting it out there

[coombsie66]

LOL, this is hillarious, not to mention THE biggest waste of time and videotape.

You arnt even showing ANY techniques in the video!!! If it was a video on double de-clutching to smooth out gearshifts and save your synchro's or one illustrating heel and toe-ing then it may be a worthwile use of you tube space, but jees, what prompted you to post this drivvle.

Oh my god, i found a way to move the stick with a nob on the end without the graunching noises! And my gearbox has lasted more than 1000 miles! WOW!

Get in a car with worn out synchro's or even a truck with a box with no synchros and then see how your gearchanging 'technique' works....crunch.

Or are you quite capable of a perfect heel and toe downshift with a double de-clutch thrown in, and you are just 'dumbing this down' for us people not worthy of such god-like driving skills. lol

LOL, i cant believe someone actually posted this and expected to get positive comments, LOL

[CommanderJameson]

coombsie66 said:

LOL, this is hillarious, not to mention THE biggest waste of time and videotape.

You arnt even showing ANY techniques in the video!!! If it was a video on double de-clutching to smooth out gearshifts and save your synchro's or one illustrating heel and toe-ing then it may be a worthwile use of you tube space, but jees, what prompted you to post this drivvle.

Oh my god, i found a way to move the stick with a nob on the end without the graunching noises! And my gearbox has lasted more than 1000 miles! WOW!

Get in a car with worn out synchro's or even a truck with a box with no synchros and then see how your gearchanging 'technique' works....crunch.

Or are you quite capable of a perfect heel and toe downshift with a double de-clutch thrown in, and you are just 'dumbing this down' for us people not worthy of such god-like driving skills. lol

LOL, i cant believe someone actually posted this and expected to get positive comments, LOL

Bell.
End.

ETA: Irony overload. (see bolded text)

Edited by CommanderJameson on Friday 31st August 11:54

[Santa Claws]

coombsie66 said:

LOL, this is hillarious, not to mention THE biggest waste of time and videotape.

You arnt even showing ANY techniques in the video!!! If it was a video on double de-clutching to smooth out gearshifts and save your synchro's or one illustrating heel and toe-ing then it may be a worthwile use of you tube space, but jees, what prompted you to post this drivvle.

Oh my god, i found a way to move the stick with a nob on the end without the graunching noises! And my gearbox has lasted more than 1000 miles! WOW!

Get in a car with worn out synchro's or even a truck with a box with no synchros and then see how your gearchanging 'technique' works....crunch.

Or are you quite capable of a perfect heel and toe downshift with a double de-clutch thrown in, and you are just 'dumbing this down' for us people not worthy of such god-like driving skills. lol

LOL, i cant believe someone actually posted this and expected to get positive comments, LOL

If you are so good, where is your amazing video showing your amazing skills?

Retard. off back to McDonnalds car park with your inbread boy racer friends.

[advanceddriver]

R_U_LOCAL said:

advanceddriver said:

Haha you really are a policeman aren't you!

Haha you really only joined the site to post your inane drivel in this thread didn't you?

Oh the irony! You have read your posts I presume?

[rsv gone!]

advanceddriver said:

R_U_LOCAL said:

advanceddriver said:

Haha you really are a policeman aren't you!

Haha you really only joined the site to post your inane drivel in this thread didn't you?

Oh the irony! You have read your posts I presume?

I'd be interested to know your driving background.

Advanced training is fundamentally about the right frame of mind. After that, it is practice and perfection of the driving tasks we can all do adequately enough to get through the test.

If you aren't self critical then you won't see the point.

[Gwaredd]

Having watched the video, I've no doubt that that technique may well be the smoothest way to change gear, but if you view it with your eyes shut (highly recommended) it sounds awful. On a par with Mrs. Smith driving to the shops in her Talbot Horizon, slipping her clutch as she pulls away from standstill in 3rd I'd say.

Still, whatever floats your boat & if you enjoy driving like that, game on. I however, like to change gear with no mechanical sympathy whatsoever, but it affords me shift speeds that a DSG 'box can only dream of.

[WilliBetz]

R_U_LOCAL said:

WilliBetz said:

R_U_LOCAL said:

I'm always interested in other people's opinions. So tell me - how could I improve my gearchanges?

A few thoughts:

- Change your seating position, to give yourself more room to work (I know - I'm too long in the leg and arm for some MX5 as well)

I'm short in the leg and long in the body. The seating position in the Mazda is always a compromise.

I don't know if you share the car. If not, why not replace the seat for a lower, fixed, one? Failing that, you may want to consider taking video in a car that you fit more comfortably?

R_U_LOCAL said:

WilliBetz said:

- DDC

As I've mentioned previously, if your timing is correct, DDC is totally unnecessary in modern manual cars. You wouldn't want me to do something I've already argued is unnecessary, would you?

It may not be necessary, but it's a lot less ugly. Especially when changing from 4th to 2nd at speed.

R_U_LOCAL said:

WilliBetz said:

- Avoid BGOL on downchanges (when turning right off the main road?)

There's no overlap.

If you were braking when you declutched/removed the car from gear, would you call that an overlap?

R_U_LOCAL said:

WilliBetz said:

- Try to time gearchanges to coincide with gaps in opposing traffic

Why? In all my years of advanced driving, no-one has ever suggested this before.

Most others seem to find it risible as well. I certainly recall (police) advanced instructors discussing it as a good habit, even though not doing it may never cause a problem. In that regard, it's a bit like not changing gear while crossing the crown of the road, or stopping with the steering pointing straight ahead when waiting to turn right.

You may consider it too pedantic. Fair enough.

But, if you consider that many of our roads were designed for carts and horses (and are now maintained with them in mind), you may prefer to habitually be in gear with both hands on the wheel when a stranger is driving toward you at a closing speed in excess of 100mph, aiming to pass you with a lateral separation measured in centimetres. Or not. Your choice.

R_U_LOCAL said:

WilliBetz said:

- Avoid non-changes (1:53 in).

You've got me.

Unapologetically pedantic - it's an instructional video, intended to show good form.

R_U_LOCAL said:

WilliBetz said:

- Consider the benefits of using less revs in first. It's not progressive when, as you rightly demonstrate, you are tapering on and off the throttle to ensure smoothness.

I don't understand this sentence. How is it not progressive? Many people seem to think that 1st gear should be used only for moving off from stationary, followed by an immediate change up to 2nd.

I'm not one of them.

It isn't progressive when compared to a technique that uses more throttle for longer in a higher gear. The reason is simply that you are spending so long tapering onto and off the throttle (for smoothness) that you aren't really taking advantage of wide open throttle performace. It's even more evident in a powerful car.

R_U_LOCAL said:

WilliBetz said:

FWIW, I'm a big fan of your writing. But I don't think this video does justice to your obvious ability, nor demonstrates the points that you are trying to convey particularly well.

WilliBetz

I'm very new to all of this. I'd never written anything along these lines before I started submitting to PH, and sometimes I find it difficult to fully express a concept in writing. At the moment, I'm just toying with videos as a method of getting ideas across.

I genuinely appreciate the time and effort that you've taken, and enjoy your posts. If you can produce video of similar quality to your prose, I'd think you have a marketable product.

WilliBetz

Edited by WilliBetz on Friday 31st August 09:52

[GreenV8S]

coombsie66 said:

Get in a car with worn out synchro's or even a truck with a box with no synchros and then see how your gearchanging 'technique' works....crunch.

Clearly you missed the technique being demonstrated. Those circumstances are exactly when this technique would be most valuable.

[advanceddriver]

WilliBetz said:

I don't know if you share the car. If not, why not replace the seat for a lower, fixed, one?

Could be your next video....

[dudearoo]

Seeing as some people found the other video not to their liking I thought I would up the tempo a little with this rivetting vid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1VEY7ndKCs

[uberscruff]

^^

So when do the school holidays end?

[Yung Man]

My first impression on watching this video was that he was just slipping the clutch which I suppose thats all it is really, IMO the problem with driving like this is when the weather turns nasty and there is black ice about you could end up perhaps wearing heavier footware and mistaking lose of traction with trying to do a smooth gear change.
It is possible with practice to do near perfect(nothing is perfect) changes by matching throttle, gear stick and clutch without running the risk of one day getting it wrong in black ice.
On a lighter note the mans not wearing any socks, this may seem a good idea on a warm day but eventually your shoes will stink, due to the fact that if you wear socks every day they get washed, your shoes don't (don't blame me, he started it), Many years ago someone I worked with had smelly feet so I took him to one side and said "Ron (not his real name), your feet stink mate, can I give you some advice?, put a clean pair of socks on every day theres a good lad".
Two weeks later he was still minging so I said "Ron what did I say to you the other week." He said " I tried what you said but by Friday I couldn't get my boots on".

The old ones are the best.


Must dash as I have to nip to my Grandmothers to show her how to suck eggs. (ummmmm wonder if there's a vid on youtube)

Edited by Yung Man on Friday 31st August 14:25

[R_U_LOCAL]

WilliBetz said:

I don't know if you share the car. If not, why not replace the seat for a lower, fixed, one? Failing that, you may want to consider taking video in a car that you fit more comfortably?

Ok, I've two cars, both of which are used by Mrs Local and myself. If I fitted a seat which was suitable for me, then she wouldn't be able to see over the wheel. I find the Mazda reasonably comfortable to sit in. As for another car - I've two cars, one of which is a semi-auto. Want to lend me yours for the day?

WilliBetz said:

It may not be necessary, but it's a lot less ugly. Especially when changing from 4th to 2nd at speed.

I'm not going to change this thread into another argument about whether DDC is necessary or not. I believe it isn't necessary in modern cars, and I'll be sticking with that.

WilliBetz said:

If you were braking when you declutched/removed the car from gear, would you call that an overlap?

Yes I would. However, the brakes were fully released in this case before I de-clutched.

WilliBetz said:

Most others seem to find it risible as well. I certainly recall (police) advanced instructors discussing it as a good habit, even though not doing it may never cause a problem. In that regard, it's a bit like not changing gear while crossing the crown of the road, or stopping with the steering pointing straight ahead when waiting to turn right.

You may consider it too pedantic. Fair enough.

But, if you consider that many of our roads were designed for carts and horses (and are now maintained with them in mind), you may prefer to habitually be in gear with both hands on the wheel when a stranger is driving toward you at a closing speed in excess of 100mph, aiming to pass you with a lateral separation measured in centimetres. Or not. Your choice.

It's too pedantic.

What next? Don't change gear when there's a change in road surface? Don't change gear when there's a danger of low flying aircraft?

There are occasions where it's preferable to avoid changing gear. During an overtake, for instance, I'd expect a driver to select a flexible gear which will take them past the overtaken vehicle before needing a higher one. However, if you're driving systematically, and planning correctly, you'll often find yourself in a position where you have to take a gear whilst passing oncoming vehicles.

Take a right turn from a major road into a minor road, for instance. A good driver will signal right, position towards the centre-line and start to brake. If there's on-coming traffic, the driver will look for a suitable gap. At the point the gap appears, the driver should be in the correct gear, ready to accelerate. That means that the gear has to be taken whilst the on-coming traffic is still passing - if the driver waits, there will be a lot of last-minute fumbling for a gear, which isn't ideal.

So yes, I consider it too pedantic, and a good example of how, when we descend into arguments over such pointless minutiae, the average driver can easily be put off the concept of "advanced driving".

WilliBetz said:

R_U_LOCAL said:

WilliBetz said:

- Avoid non-changes (1:53 in).

You've got me.

Unapologetically pedantic - it's an instructional video, intended to show good form.

Like I said - you got me. Here, have a biscuit...

WilliBetz said:

R_U_LOCAL said:

WilliBetz said:

- Consider the benefits of using less revs in first. It's not progressive when, as you rightly demonstrate, you are tapering on and off the throttle to ensure smoothness.

I don't understand this sentence. How is it not progressive? Many people seem to think that 1st gear should be used only for moving off from stationary, followed by an immediate change up to 2nd.

I'm not one of them.

It isn't progressive when compared to a technique that uses more throttle for longer in a higher gear. The reason is simply that you are spending so long tapering onto and off the throttle (for smoothness) that you aren't really taking advantage of wide open throttle performace. It's even more evident in a powerful car.

It's not always necessary to take advantage of wide-open throttle performance though, is it? Do you set off from every junction with the accelerator nailed to the floor? Of course you don't. And if you consider that the tapering throttle was exactly what I was trying to demonstrate, then you'll see why I did it.

WilliBetz said:

R_U_LOCAL said:

WilliBetz said:

FWIW, I'm a big fan of your writing. But I don't think this video does justice to your obvious ability, nor demonstrates the points that you are trying to convey particularly well.

WilliBetz

I'm very new to all of this. I'd never written anything along these lines before I started submitting to PH, and sometimes I find it difficult to fully express a concept in writing. At the moment, I'm just toying with videos as a method of getting ideas across.

I genuinely appreciate the time and effort that you've taken, and enjoy your posts. If you can produce video of similar quality to your prose, I'd think you have a marketable product.

WilliBetz

Let's just be straight about this - I'm not trying to market anything, and I've never made a penny out of my articles. I've made it quite clear that they're available for posting elsewhere or for printing out for instructional use to anybody, free of charge.

I wouldn't rule out trying to get some stuff published in the future, but for now, this stuff is free and I do it all in my spare time.

I accept that there are some serious limitations in producing video with a shonky old home video camera, and I'm looking at ways to improve the quality.

[A - W]

Keep it up Reg, I for one appreciate any help with my driving and thank you for your time and effort.

Those that want help will take in your information and put it to good use, those that don't will deal with it in their own way.

[WilliBetz]

On timing of the change, I accept that it isn't always possible to time a gearchange to coincide with a gap in opposing traffic. My comment was made in the context of open road motoring, which appeared relevant to your video. Timing is a consideration, sometimes irrelevant and often secondary to other considerations.

On BGOL, in the video I see your foot on the brake when you declutch. You assert that you weren't braking, and it's hard to tell from the video. Perhaps a clear separation of the phases might convey a stronger message? I understand some advanced driving organisations are quite fussy on this sort of thing, despite the dumbing down of Roadcraft.

On use of first gear, I prefer WOT and less revs for mechanical sympathy. Similarly, I prefer to pull away without using quite so many revs.

All these points are minor, but I believe that the devil is in the detail when it comes to driving at the highest level.

That said, it's your party Reg, and I'm not here to try to spoil it. I'm interested in what you have to show, and keen to understand any differences between our techniques.

Edited by WilliBetz on Friday 31st August 17:12

[GreenV8S]

Yung Man said:

My first impression on watching this video was that he was just slipping the clutch which I suppose thats all it is really

Is there another video somewhere that I'm missing? There was nothing like that on the video when I watched it.