Over-shoulder checks on motorways

[RT106]

G_T said:

the time it takes between mirror checks being 10-15 seconds on average

Edited by G_T on Wednesday 5th August 16:16

You what?! Somebody on here used to go on about mirror checks every 8 seconds which I thought was ridiculously infrequent. I tried that one day and scared myself silly, I have no idea how anyone could wait that long, let alone 15!

[RobM77]

RT106 said:

G_T said:

the time it takes between mirror checks being 10-15 seconds on average

Edited by G_T on Wednesday 5th August 16:16

You what?! Somebody on here used to go on about mirror checks every 8 seconds which I thought was ridiculously infrequent. I tried that one day and scared myself silly, I have no idea how anyone could wait that long, let alone 15!

Surely it depends entirely on the situation you're in. On a busy motorway yes, you're looking all over the place, but on more empty roads with different sorts of hazards up front you need to check the mirrors less often. I'd say it varies so much one couldn't put a number on it.

On a related note, in the car I race the mirrors are right bang in my line of sight, so when I'm cornering one eye looks at the mirror and the other at the track ahead. I think it's a great idea, and reminds me of when I used to do clay pigeon shooting where my right eye aimed the gun and the left eye looked at the target. I've never driven a car with true "wing" mirrors, but I presume it's a similar effect?

[CommanderJameson]

RT106 said:

G_T said:

the time it takes between mirror checks being 10-15 seconds on average

Edited by G_T on Wednesday 5th August 16:16

You what?! Somebody on here used to go on about mirror checks every 8 seconds which I thought was ridiculously infrequent. I tried that one day and scared myself silly, I have no idea how anyone could wait that long, let alone 15!

I've never timed it, but I bet I'm at the mirrors every 4 or 5 seconds.

[G_T]

The IAM states the average time between checks is between 10-12 seconds IIRC. Of course this varies. It is an average. But it detracts nothing from the statement.

No offence but I find it unlikely that you can check all your mirrors (and make all appropriate observations) consistently under 6 seconds whilst driving your car safely for anything other than a short period of time.

You'll probably find you average about the same as any other half-decent driver.

[Starfighter]

Of cause, you could always try slip-streaming a heavy. You'd get better fuel consumption and give your self all the time in the world to use the mirrors as you would be able to see all out of the front!

[havoc]

CommanderJameson said:

RT106 said:

G_T said:

the time it takes between mirror checks being 10-15 seconds on average

Edited by G_T on Wednesday 5th August 16:16

You what?! Somebody on here used to go on about mirror checks every 8 seconds which I thought was ridiculously infrequent. I tried that one day and scared myself silly, I have no idea how anyone could wait that long, let alone 15!

I've never timed it, but I bet I'm at the mirrors every 4 or 5 seconds.

Depends where.

On an M-way, then definitely <10secs.

On an A/B-road and making progress, probably >10secs, simply because there's less chance of something becoming a hazard to me (or vice versa) in a short space of time. If I need to manoeuvre then mirrors and lifesaver always...

[RT106]

G_T said:

No offence but I find it unlikely that you can check all your mirrors (and make all appropriate observations) consistently under 6 seconds whilst driving your car safely for anything other than a short period of time.

What's an appropriate observation? I reckon I scan my mirrors once every two or three seconds on the motorway and maybe once every five on other roads. The human eye is an astonishing thing and even a quick scan of the mirrors can collate an amazing amount of information about the position and relative speed of other vehicles, certainly good enough to form and keep udpdated an almost perfect map of what's going on around. I believe that it's inappropriate and unsafe to drive a car without maintaining such regular observations.

[G_T]

RT106 said:

G_T said:

No offence but I find it unlikely that you can check all your mirrors (and make all appropriate observations) consistently under 6 seconds whilst driving your car safely for anything other than a short period of time.

What's an appropriate observation? I reckon I scan my mirrors once every two or three seconds on the motorway and maybe once every five on other roads. The human eye is an astonishing thing and even a quick scan of the mirrors can collate an amazing amount of information about the position and relative speed of other vehicles, certainly good enough to form and keep udpdated an almost perfect map of what's going on around. I believe that it's inappropriate and unsafe to drive a car without maintaining such regular observations.

I meant "appropriate" as in you've done the right checks and you've made a mental note of everything relevent. There's a difference between looking at something and seeing it afterall.

I have not once adovated not maintaining regular observations.

I'm not an expert but I have watched police driving instructors with the IAM and they really don't seem to be checking there mirrors every 6 seconds irrespective of circumstance. Granted they do sometimes but it's done with an obvious degree of descretion.

To riterate I'm not condoning not checking mirrors. I'm just saying that I think some of the posters are unrealistic in how often they check their mirrors. I also believe the relevence of the "shoulder check" is proven by the realistic gaps between mirror checks.

[RT106]

G_T said:

To riterate I'm not condoning not checking mirrors. I'm just saying that I think some of the posters are unrealistic in how often they check their mirrors. I also believe the relevence of the "shoulder check" is proven by the realistic gaps between mirror checks.

Sorry if I sounded arsey because that wasn't my intention. However, I don't believe that there's anything unrealistic about the frequency of mirror-checks I mentioned above (and I don't for a second think that my eyes work better than anyone elses). I apply the logic that the longer I leave between mirror-checks the longer I have to spend checking. I prefer to scan quickly but frequently. The benefit is that the 'map' is frequently updated and I'm confident that I know where other vehicles are around me. That doesn't mean I don't shoulder-check too, but it does mean I'm better placed to make very quick decisions when the need arises.

[G_T]

RT106 said:

G_T said:

To riterate I'm not condoning not checking mirrors. I'm just saying that I think some of the posters are unrealistic in how often they check their mirrors. I also believe the relevence of the "shoulder check" is proven by the realistic gaps between mirror checks.

Sorry if I sounded arsey because that wasn't my intention. However, I don't believe that there's anything unrealistic about the frequency of mirror-checks I mentioned above (and I don't for a second think that my eyes work better than anyone elses). I apply the logic that the longer I leave between mirror-checks the longer I have to spend checking. I prefer to scan quickly but frequently. The benefit is that the 'map' is frequently updated and I'm confident that I know where other vehicles are around me. That doesn't mean I don't shoulder-check too, but it does mean I'm better placed to make very quick decisions when the need arises.

Well I think we'll have to get the stopwatch out!

[putridp]

Shoulder checks are redundant if you're checking your mirrors enough.... but redundancy is good! That's why you always know what coming up in your mirrors by checking all 3 at least every 10 seconds, *and* make a redundant check before changing lane.

It's not unrealistic to check your mirrors every 6-8 seconds.

[dhutch]

jaf01uk said:

We do a little exercise with stoodents, get them to watch a vehicle moving past with a small speed difference on D/C or M/Way in their door mirror until it disappears then turn your head to see where it is, the bonnet is usually level with your shoulder and as such the shoulder check doesn't mean turning your head like an owl!
Gary

Its a good one that.
- On the 306, with modern curved mirrors, i actaully dont have a blind spot.
- However with the westfeild (low kitcar, with capri mirror) i can hide a large van.
- Ditto on the 806, which is newish, but without a curved out end to the mirror.


Daniel

[Dave-Jns]

im a learner and have been taught from the beginning to do over-shoulder checks. just a split second glance should be enough to spot any potential hazard and shouldn't cause any significant damage to your frontal awareness.

[loomx]

I have blind spot mirror, still do over should checks. I prefer not to trust them and just check.

Anyone who does check IMO is driving without due care.

How can you argue that you cant look to the side because you dont know whats infront of you! yet your willing to pull right without looking to see whats to the right!

That has to be one of the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

Using periferal vision, takes that same time that it does to check mirrors... or do you not do that either?!

[loomx]

One other thing to think about is, if you changing lanes on a sweeping right hander, then you can see alot more in your right hand mirror and might not need to look over your shoulder, left hand sweeping bends, you can see alot less, and might need to turn your head further than normal.

As always when driving, drive acording to the road and conditions.

[Jojito]

[quote=BOR]That blindspot diagram is typically pessimistic. You would pick up that car in your peripheral vision, particularly as you flick your eyes towards the side-mirror.

And, to be provocative, how would a car or bike be able to enter your "blindspot" unseen ?

All depends on the car you’re driving. If a slow car with max of 55mph eg old landrover, the motorway inside lanes change significantly by the time you get to join so the picture which is sneaking up behind you as you join, will change. If you’re accelerating down the slip road in a fast car, you keep the picture in front of you, and looking over the shoulder is poor practice in my view.
Mirrors suffice for racing, and suffice for joining a motorway in the circumstances above.

[Cliftonite]

Wow! 13-year thread revival!

[kevinon]

tom g said:

Anyone else lean forward to extend wing mirror view, as an alternative to over shoulder checks, or is that just me?

That's me too. When my top is up.

And one of the joys of roof-down driving is that my vision all-round is great.
Add to this, I never have music on (it's a zen thing - do one thing well), so hearing gives lots of additional info.

I'm a 90% roof down driver.

[Ron240]

kevinon said:

That's me too

But you only do it 10% of the time...so not much at all really!