Silver Shadow Info

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Discussion

2woody

919 posts

212 months

Friday 17th December 2010
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I can't really add much to what Bluebottle says, apart from perhaps a bit about my experiences and what some of the technical advances mean.....

The Silver Shadow and the later BZ cars are so similar under the skin that they're worth considering as a single model, so you really need to consider the chronoligical list below and choose your point at which to "jump on".

start - Silver shadow I

6.3 litre, SU carbs, steering box for that proper vintage-car feel.

6.75 litre - not a real advantage in power, but a lot easier to get parts for.

Silver Shadow II

At launch : steering rack - much improves the driving feel of the vehicle

1980 - GMF brakes - much more powerful than the brake-fluid cars

Silver Spirit

launched with new heater/aircon controls - much more reliable that the "clockwork" earlier cars

1987 Fuel injection - the very reliable Bosch mechanical system

1987 ABS - speaks for itself really. Now we're all accustomed to ABS, it's surprising how aware you are when you don't have it.

1990-ish - a new steering rack (Adwest ?), which further improves the road manners

1990 4-speed transmission - really improves the economy

1994 electronic fuel injection

I would second the advice that the Turbo R is a much, much more "rounded" car - it has ABS, an extra couple of hundred horsepower and vastly superior road manners. Costs aren't that much different, too. I have an '83 Mulsanne turbo, bought "sight-unseen" off ebay for £4000. Mind you, it was bought with the intention of adding some of the features of the later cars, such as the suspension. I initially used it every day for 18 months, covering about 40,000 miles in that time, with almost total reliability. Whilst I accept that it could just as easily been unreliable, they definitiely get more reliable the more you use them. I have now completely rebuilt the suspension and hydraulics, and am currently building a twin-turbo LPG engine for it, which is coming together very slowly in my workshop - I don't know if you are handy with tools, there's nothing really frightening about the cars to work on.

I do also have a '78 Shadow II, this too is capable of being used every day once outfitted with decent anti-roll bars. The only real things that let it down are the carburettors and the heating controls.

get in touch if you'd like further information - I'm happy to oblige.

vpr

3,729 posts

240 months

Friday 17th December 2010
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Talking of Heater controls...any obvious reason why my blower is not working?

2woody

919 posts

212 months

Saturday 18th December 2010
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the heater on Shadow II is controlled in part by electrics and in part by a sort of Meccano-looking box of gears under each side of the dash.

the RR manual is very good in this respect, if a little extensive. you can download a copy from the Rolls Royce Club of Australia website. Failing that, pm me your details and I'll send you a disc with it on.

whereabouts are you ? in the unlikely event that you're in the North East, I don't mind having a look at it for you.

vpr

3,729 posts

240 months

Sunday 19th December 2010
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Thanks woody.....I'm in the Sarf East.

I've ordered a std manual so I'll take a look when it arrives. I can however hear the direction flaps moving but I have no blower.

Stumbler

6 posts

160 months

Wednesday 23rd February 2011
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Hi,

My apologies in advance for jumping in on this thread. I have just become the proud owner of a Bentley Corniche '76. Last weekend I took it out. All went very well and pretty much as I expected. However, despite following the instructions in the manual I couldn't get it to blast out any hot air. It trickled a bit of hot air, but this barely warmed the car. Is there any way I can definitively deduce if something is broken, and if so, what it might be? All suggestions most welcome.

Also, is there any advantage to be had from converting the carbs to fuel injection? Can it even be done?
This model doesn't have rack and pinion steering. I don't mind the steering as it is, but just wondering if it can be retrofitted with rack and pinion?
Finally, the handling seems pretty good, but having driven a Roycer with a handling kit, I know they can be much better. What would be my options for getting this upgrade? I've heard of the Harvey Bailey kit, but also been told you don't need that particular one.

Any thoughts on any of these topics would be most welcome.

Many thanks.

Stumbler

PS. Just to add to the earlier discussion. I can confirm from my very short experience so far, that driving the Corniche through clear London traffic gave me 7.44mpg over 34 miles, whereas on the motorway I got 14.5mpg on an 90 mile run. I suspect that anyone using these cars regularly in town is going to need to own an oil well. (I do! Though I haven't yet managed to connect it up to my car!)

Re. Turbos. I have driven my friend's early Bentley 8 (non-turbo) and his Brooklands (light pressure turbo). Both he and I prefer driving the former. When you depress your foot on the gas in the 8 the response is immediate and proportional to your desire to proceed gently or like a cheetah. However, the Brooklands will not take-off no matter how hard you boot it. It takes a second or two to wind up, which it does very well, but somehow the lack of immediate response is unsatisfying. My mate swears he could drive his old non turbo 8 faster through tight roads than the Brooklands (if that was what was required!) He should know, he's owned them both for many years.

The interior of the Brooklands is definitely nicer with the walnut, but you can find later 8s with all the quality trimmings including active ride, so that needn't be a negative. I think the non-turbo Brooklands would be a great car, I might even buy one as a first car.

Also, I don't think I am being unfair if I added that one is probably more likely to suffer less depreciation, and perhaps even appreciation with a Shadow 2 or a Bentley T2 compared to the later '80s shaped cars. That is why I opted for the Corniche. It's rarity value should make it fairly safe. Just my thoughts.

I had a 911 but drove it faster and faster until I crashed it, hence the purchase of some thing more 'sensible'! I certainly miss the pull of that 911 engine but now very much enjoying weekend and evening wafting.

Edited by Stumbler on Wednesday 23 February 14:13

2woody

919 posts

212 months

Thursday 24th February 2011
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it's possible to swap to steering rack and indeed fuel injection, both of which are a great advance, and it might just be possible with standard parts. BUT neither of these is going to be easy to do.

tonys

1,080 posts

225 months

Thursday 24th February 2011
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I'm not sure I would bother with converting to fuel injection, what are you hoping to obtain from what would probably be a more involved job than perhaps initially thought.
With regard to the Harvey Bailey kit, it does make a noticeable difference, although it is still not exactly a 'sports' type of handling. It was done on my Shadow11 about 20 years ago, so long ago that I can't really remember what it was like before, just that it was better after it was done. I suspect that the RR kit will be fairly similar, if not the same.
With regard to the heater, there could be a number of reasons why it isn't very effective, blocked matrix, air-lock in the system, mechanism not working to its full extent. Presumably the car is running at the correct temperature, ie not a defective thermostat?

Stumbler

6 posts

160 months

Friday 25th February 2011
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Well, I haven't had the car long, and the weather's been so dull that I haven't had the lorry out much, but so far as I can tell it is running correctly. According to the instruments anyway. Funnily enough, I took it today for a bit of shopping and noticed it seemed very hot standing in front of it when I got home. I was quite shocked how much heat was coming out of the radiator. Of course, I'm not sure if that is normal or not.

I had the heater off and on trying to get to grips with it. The fan seems to operate slowly in 'Low' and rather more noisily in 'High'. so that appears to be functioning. It certainly belts out the cold air quickly enough when I move the dials to blue, but heat seems to be rather more reluctant to come out, especially in light of the heat available at the radiator.

If I had to sum the problem up, it would be that I can't seem to find a setting that simply gushes out hot air when you want to get the car warm. It dribbles in.

any thoughts as how I might proceed with more investigations would be most welcome.

Oh, there was another thing I noticed today. the engine sometimes feels to be on the verge of stalling when I am sitting in traffic. I can feel the engine just starting to stumble and put a vibration through the car, and can see the ammeter twitching. Any thoughts on this definitely welcome. It's a carburettor 76.

Regards

Stumbler.

PS. My questions re fuel injection and steering were just posed to make sure I wasn't missing an easy upgrade, (I'm definitely not in search of 'headaches for the sake of it'!) Re. Handling, (other than steering) so far I can't really complain, the car goes around corners with relative aplomb. The dealer I bought it off said he thought it might have some sort of handling upgrade already, because it was tighter than he recalled others being.

Edited by Stumbler on Friday 25th February 18:33


Edited by Stumbler on Friday 25th February 21:15

vpr

3,729 posts

240 months

Friday 25th February 2011
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My heater wasn't blowing out hot. Turned out the engine wasn't warming up due to a faulty thermostat. I changed it and not its spot on


tonys

1,080 posts

225 months

Friday 25th February 2011
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You might find something useful on here.
http://au.rrforums.net/cgi-bin/forum/discus.pl

I don't have any specific info. on the Series 1 heating system as it is different to the one fitted to mine. Have you had chance to check whether the thermostat seems to be operating correctly, ie top hose getting hot when thermostat opens? Presumably coolant levels are ok?

The Harvey Bailey kit originally had HBE (IIRC) stickers on the anti-roll bar (although might have come off after a period of time) and, IIRC, has Bilstein dampers. A quick look underneath might confirm whether the car has an uprated system.

The standard set-up does allow the car to roll quite a bit, IMHO, so if the dealer thought it felt tighter than usual and, depending whether you've driven other Shadows etc., you feel it isn't 'too bad', then it is quite possible is has some form of uprated kit. In my experience, most people driving a Shadow for the first time find that they roll a lot but, obviously, it depends on what they have been used to; 'some say' that they were set up for the American market. I seem to recall that the Corniches might have had different anti-roll bars, but without getting out the books, I'm not sure.
Anyhow, congratulations on getting a Corniche, lovely cars.smile
With regard to the stalling, was the car in gear or neutral? It might just be that the tickover is slightly too low, or it might be that the automatic choke is not cutting out properly. How far had the car been driven when the symptom appeared, what was temp gauge reading, ie should the car have reached normal oprating temperature and the choke cut out? Has the car had a decent run recently, if not, it might help clear the system out. Depending on the service history, you might want to start with the basics, ie plugs/timing etc. etc. Good luck.

Edited by tonys on Friday 25th February 22:31

Stumbler

6 posts

160 months

Saturday 26th February 2011
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I've just bought an infra red temp reader on eBay so that I can test the pipe temperature. I'll do some more research and testing as I use it and see if I can't start to narrow down if there is a problem or not.

Regarding the rough running. the car was in 'drive', however, it was fairly early on in my journey and so it's possible that the engine wasn't warm enough, and also that it wasn't doing it at the end of the journey. Something I will have to remember to check.

The car had a fairly good service before I got it. the service sheet says 'New Spark plugs, Clean engine flame traps and correctly set up carbs', so I guess it should be okay.

There is another quirk, that I hope is just that and not anything more ominous. I drive very slowly and always tickle the brake early to slow the car down in anticipation of stopping rather than steaming up to congestion and banging on the brakes. A couple of times as I've just touched the brake pedal I've noticed that I seem to have taken the car out of drive but the brakes haven't yet come on. The car suddenly goes into a momentary freewheel until I depress the brake a bit further. I can only describe it by saying that it's as if there's a trip switch on the brake which takes power from the wheels as you are braking, and by very slightly depressing the pedal I seem to be activating it, before I have any brakes applied. I hope that makes sense. Anyway, it's a bit disconcerting to suddenly find yourself speeding up as you are about to brake.

It's rather subtle and I hadn't thought much about it until just now when I read that the whole hydraulic system can fail if the whole system of hoses etc hasn't been replaced in the service interval. I have no idea if mine has. (once again, there is a note to check over the brake system in the recent service sheet, but that doesn't necessarily mean much)

So my question is, is this normal, or do I have the makings of a serious problem. I am more than slightly concerned to discover that the braking system on these cars can fail completely when the car is being driven, and without any warning too! Yikes!

Any thoughts on this are definitely most welcome

many thanks in advance

stumbler

andyh68

1,361 posts

175 months

Saturday 26th February 2011
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Stumbler,

Congratulations on your purchase - one of my favourite cars!

You mention that it is a 1976 example: From mid '76 there was a series 1 run out model known as the "1A". The 1A retained the chrome bumpers of the earlier cars but was fitted with the interior of the post '77 "rubber bumper" cars, including the bi-level air-conditioning system. The 1A was also fitted with the Shadow II rack & pinion steering set-up. I believe there were around 140 made, of which only a handful would have been Bentleys, and even fewer the fixedhead version.

May be worth checking if your car is one of these.

Andy




Stumbler

6 posts

160 months

Saturday 26th February 2011
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Well thank you very much for your comments. This is getting interesting. I have been told that I have a 1A, and that's what it was advertised as, though I had no idea what that meant, and I can't see that designation written anywhere on my car. My chassis number is 21998, but having just had a scan of some chassis number sites I am none the wiser. I have the bi-level air-con/heating system, which was a feature of the 1A, and chrome bumpers but I don't have the old style round mirrors.

Putting chassis number theory aside for the moment, what should I look for under the bonnet that would positively identify which system I have? I'll take a photo and perhaps someone can tell me?

I would be surprised and thrilled to discover I have rack and pinion, though I'm not hopeful as I can't say that my steering is particularly direct. As James May said, 'the steering wheel is far too polite to issue orders, it merely offers directional suggestions!'

I've now added some photos but from little I know, this doesn't look like a rack and pinion to me. It looks like a mess, which means I suspect it must be recirculating ball?

Many thanks

smile

Stumbler


Edited by Stumbler on Saturday 26th February 14:38


Edited by Stumbler on Saturday 26th February 15:28


Edited by Stumbler on Saturday 26th February 16:13

andyh68

1,361 posts

175 months

Saturday 26th February 2011
quotequote all

This site doesn't specifically mention the 1A, but it suggests #21998 is the first of the non-US spec cars to receive the new interior. Scroll down to 1975 where it is mentioned:

http://www.rrsilvershadow.com/EMod/Chnr3.htm

Andy


Stumbler

6 posts

160 months

Saturday 26th February 2011
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Here's another photo, surely this can't be rack and pinion?

thanks Andy, unfortunately, the info doesn't specify if any Corniches got the steering upgrade early. Still it's nice to know my car was the very first Corniche to get the upgraded interior!

Regards

Stumbler

andyh68

1,361 posts

175 months

Sunday 27th February 2011
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Stumbler,

Not sure if its much help, but there is a Corniche 1A for sale here: http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/SALES/1121407.htm

You could also try the RREC: http://www.rrec.org.uk/ - they should be able to provide the build records for your car.

Cheers,

Andy



tonys

1,080 posts

225 months

Tuesday 1st March 2011
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Stumbler
I’ve looked in a couple of my books and you might be interested in some of the following. Graham Robson’s Collector’s Guide on the Shadow, Corniche and Carmargue, lists various technical specs., including the following:
Corniche repackaging with new air-con and facia (ie as Shadow 11) from chassis 21998 (as stated in the earlier posting)
March 1977 (from chassis 30003 – a RR Corniche convertible, RR Corniche saloon from 30011, Bentley Corniche convertible from 31219, Bentley Corniche saloon from 31226): chassis and running gear modified as for introduction of Silver Shadow11, including rack and pinion steering.

Chris Harvey’s book (1984) on the Corniche also states the suspension geometry and steering update was introduced with the introduction of the Corniche11 in Feb 1977. It goes without saying that a look underneath will quickly confirm, one way or the other, whether you have rack and pinion steering, but it would seem that you have certainly ‘stumbled’biggrin on the first car with the revised air-con system.
If you have a rack, which I doubt, it will be obvious from underneath, as you'll see it between the front wheels, complete with its rubber boots at each end.

As far as I am aware these were the production figures up to 1984:
RR Corniche saloon Series1: 780
Bentley Corniche saloon S1: 53
RR Corniche convertible S1: 1,233
Bentley Corniche convertibleS1: 45

RR Corniche saloon Series11: 310
Bentley Corniche saloon S11: 16
RR Corniche convertible S11: 1,595
Bentley Corniche convertible S11: 29

The Bentley was renamed Continental in mid-1984. Neither of those books refer to a series 1A model, nor does another I've looked at. It was probably just one of those terms brought into general use once the series 11 had been introduced.

2woody

919 posts

212 months

Monday 7th March 2011
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tonys said:
complete with its rubber boots at each end.
actually, the rubber boots are in the middle of this particular design, but I'll not split hairs - sterling research, well done.

Balmoral Green

41,127 posts

250 months

Monday 7th March 2011
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Oil leaks are pretty good for keeping the rust off the big bits of iron, but it doesn't do the rubbery bits much good. Ten of one and half a dozen of the other smile

tonys

1,080 posts

225 months

Monday 7th March 2011
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2woody said:
actually, the rubber boots are in the middle of this particular design, but I'll not split hairs - sterling research, well done.
I'll refresh my memory next time i'm looking underneath ithehe Point taken, just going to sit in the corner of the room for a few hours frown