Cooper or Cooper S?
Discussion
I know this may sound a stupid question to ask, but I need an honest comparison between the Cooper & Cooper S? Given my budget is around £6k it will be a R53.
I'd love a Cooper S but what I'm after is something reasonably economical on fuel (compared to my current car which is a Focus ST and my other a Landrover!). So you say go for a Cooper right?... But I'm starting to do a lot more motorway miles, so will the 5 speeed box of the Cooper be ok on the motorway? Is the Cooper powerful enough?
Help please ....
I'd love a Cooper S but what I'm after is something reasonably economical on fuel (compared to my current car which is a Focus ST and my other a Landrover!). So you say go for a Cooper right?... But I'm starting to do a lot more motorway miles, so will the 5 speeed box of the Cooper be ok on the motorway? Is the Cooper powerful enough?
Help please ....
Cooper S all the way. No midland box, more poke when you need it. I have an ST as well as the Cooper S and although the S is quikish for a R53 JCW, the ST is far more grunty. if you went down to the cooper, you may find something lacking a bit.As for fuel economy, the current wife uses ours as a shopping car and manages 30 mpg and on a decent run I hope it should manage 35 mpg at least.
Aah, the old ECO vs EGO chestnut...
Early R56 Coopers are touching 7K so may be within your price range with a bit of negotiating. 50mpg, 120bhp and happily cruise all day at 70 on the motorway.
If running costs are important and you're doing lots of mway driving, why get the S? You'll be able to get a better Cooper than S, and save on insurance + road tax.
Or even get a basic R53 One on steelies and chip it to 115bhp; it's the same engine as the Cooper and the best MPG comes from the narrow ecocontact tyres. Get your fun factor 50 from ragging the basic model.
Early R56 Coopers are touching 7K so may be within your price range with a bit of negotiating. 50mpg, 120bhp and happily cruise all day at 70 on the motorway.
If running costs are important and you're doing lots of mway driving, why get the S? You'll be able to get a better Cooper than S, and save on insurance + road tax.
Or even get a basic R53 One on steelies and chip it to 115bhp; it's the same engine as the Cooper and the best MPG comes from the narrow ecocontact tyres. Get your fun factor 50 from ragging the basic model.
Having owned 2 Cooper's and 1 Cooper S, I would definitly say it has to be the Cooper S.
Cooper was still fun, but not at all poky.
The Cooper S is the slowest you want to go for, and then when you want more power they are easily tunable to keep you interested.
I would also definitly go for R53 over an early R56.
Cooper was still fun, but not at all poky.
The Cooper S is the slowest you want to go for, and then when you want more power they are easily tunable to keep you interested.
I would also definitly go for R53 over an early R56.
Cheers for the comments so far ... This is kind of proving my fear of the Cooper. My last 6 cars have all been turbo charged (including a Mini One D) ... moving to a Cooper, I might feel the lack of the 'grunt' so to speak... But the Cooper S doesn't give me much saving in terms of fuel or road tax from the ST, about £200 on insurance.
do you really want to save on insurance and petrol costs?
a saving of £200 on insurance is a good bonus.
When I had my Cooper S i was getting consistently above 30mpg, and more on long runs.
My Coopers have not been much better and are not worth the few MPG.
Your Cooper D although turbo'd will still not be much swifter than a normal Cooper. Cooper S much nippier and worth the fuel cost.
The R56's have better fuel economy and cheaper tax, but not half as fun IMO. (And early ones had lots of niggles, some quite expensive ones)
a saving of £200 on insurance is a good bonus.
When I had my Cooper S i was getting consistently above 30mpg, and more on long runs.
My Coopers have not been much better and are not worth the few MPG.
Your Cooper D although turbo'd will still not be much swifter than a normal Cooper. Cooper S much nippier and worth the fuel cost.
The R56's have better fuel economy and cheaper tax, but not half as fun IMO. (And early ones had lots of niggles, some quite expensive ones)
Ilikebeaver said:
do you really want to save on insurance and petrol costs?
a saving of £200 on insurance is a good bonus.
When I had my Cooper S i was getting consistently above 30mpg, and more on long runs.
My Coopers have not been much better and are not worth the few MPG.
Your Cooper D although turbo'd will still not be much swifter than a normal Cooper. Cooper S much nippier and worth the fuel cost.
The R56's have better fuel economy and cheaper tax, but not half as fun IMO. (And early ones had lots of niggles, some quite expensive ones)
According to Parkers the Cooper gets about 42mpg combined compared to 33 in the Cooper S. I take it in real world driving you dont really see those kind of figures. a saving of £200 on insurance is a good bonus.
When I had my Cooper S i was getting consistently above 30mpg, and more on long runs.
My Coopers have not been much better and are not worth the few MPG.
Your Cooper D although turbo'd will still not be much swifter than a normal Cooper. Cooper S much nippier and worth the fuel cost.
The R56's have better fuel economy and cheaper tax, but not half as fun IMO. (And early ones had lots of niggles, some quite expensive ones)
Challo said:
Ilikebeaver said:
do you really want to save on insurance and petrol costs?
a saving of £200 on insurance is a good bonus.
When I had my Cooper S i was getting consistently above 30mpg, and more on long runs.
My Coopers have not been much better and are not worth the few MPG.
Your Cooper D although turbo'd will still not be much swifter than a normal Cooper. Cooper S much nippier and worth the fuel cost.
The R56's have better fuel economy and cheaper tax, but not half as fun IMO. (And early ones had lots of niggles, some quite expensive ones)
According to Parkers the Cooper gets about 42mpg combined compared to 33 in the Cooper S. I take it in real world driving you dont really see those kind of figures. a saving of £200 on insurance is a good bonus.
When I had my Cooper S i was getting consistently above 30mpg, and more on long runs.
My Coopers have not been much better and are not worth the few MPG.
Your Cooper D although turbo'd will still not be much swifter than a normal Cooper. Cooper S much nippier and worth the fuel cost.
The R56's have better fuel economy and cheaper tax, but not half as fun IMO. (And early ones had lots of niggles, some quite expensive ones)
To have any fun out of the Cooper we would end up driving it in a not very economical way and this would result in closer to 34mpg.
The Cooper S would get 34mpg with similar driving. Before I sold it I had started doing much more town driving and smaller trips, and this dropped down to about 31mpg on average.
I bot an early Cooper (51) for my daily back in April. I have a commute of about 10 miles which is mainly B roads and town driving. I do a bit of extra miles on A roads. I keep a log for tax reasons and over 2413 I have averaged 35.23mpg.
I would not want to do any serious mileage on motorways with the 5 speed box as the final drive means that 70mph is a circa 3400 run which gets a bit tiresome.
Would I like more power... Yes of course but in my mind the extra fuel, ins etc etc wasnt worth it for me. But as I have said many times since owning one its the first time ive driven a car with a smile on my face since my Elise!
I would not want to do any serious mileage on motorways with the 5 speed box as the final drive means that 70mph is a circa 3400 run which gets a bit tiresome.
Would I like more power... Yes of course but in my mind the extra fuel, ins etc etc wasnt worth it for me. But as I have said many times since owning one its the first time ive driven a car with a smile on my face since my Elise!
Your Budget is early cars which IMO should be avoided.
I had an 02 MINI Cooper S for 6 months and that was enough.
Good
Looked fantastic from any angle with silver body, black roof and S-Spokes
Steering feel and handling
Well made interior
Bad
Poor brakes. Lacked in feel and power
Gearbox was sloppy.
If you get a flat battery, its a pig to get to on the S. You have to sort two connections under the bonnet to open the boot or dislodge the parcel shelf, which isn't that easy
Engine was poor. My 1.2 Fiat Sporting and more eagerness to get to the red line
Power steering pump wa starting to go (A common fault and will cost 4 figures to fix)
MPG was miles off the quoted figures
Uncomfortable at low speeds (Not helped by the 12Kg a corner S-Spoke alloys)
Dashboard rattled (common fault sometimes fixed by a front strust brace)
You won't have to do too much digging to find lots of faults with early MINIs. HG failure is quite common with the S and Cooper,
GetRag box replaced the terrible British Midland box in 2006 I think. Lots of other faults were also ironed out then too. Apparently the gearbox was one of the resaons the power was upped form 163 to 170 ish.
Both the S and the Cooper are easily tunable. You can get 190bhp from an S from just changing the Supercharger pully and that only costs £200 all in
I had an 02 MINI Cooper S for 6 months and that was enough.
Good
Looked fantastic from any angle with silver body, black roof and S-Spokes
Steering feel and handling
Well made interior
Bad
Poor brakes. Lacked in feel and power
Gearbox was sloppy.
If you get a flat battery, its a pig to get to on the S. You have to sort two connections under the bonnet to open the boot or dislodge the parcel shelf, which isn't that easy
Engine was poor. My 1.2 Fiat Sporting and more eagerness to get to the red line
Power steering pump wa starting to go (A common fault and will cost 4 figures to fix)
MPG was miles off the quoted figures
Uncomfortable at low speeds (Not helped by the 12Kg a corner S-Spoke alloys)
Dashboard rattled (common fault sometimes fixed by a front strust brace)
You won't have to do too much digging to find lots of faults with early MINIs. HG failure is quite common with the S and Cooper,
GetRag box replaced the terrible British Midland box in 2006 I think. Lots of other faults were also ironed out then too. Apparently the gearbox was one of the resaons the power was upped form 163 to 170 ish.
Both the S and the Cooper are easily tunable. You can get 190bhp from an S from just changing the Supercharger pully and that only costs £200 all in
I would say in my personal opinion, if you are concerned about fuel economy don't buy an R53 Cooper S. If you are running a Mini diesel now it will hit your wallet like a tonne of bricks. I know a few people that have owned them and they struggle around 30mpg.
I personally would try to stretch your budget and get an R56, they are much better on fuel. I have a 56 plate cooper S (R56) which I have bought recently direct from Mini and it was £10,500 but they did have standard Coopers there closer to £8,000. The fuel economy on the new S is equivalent to the old Cooper. I know quite a lot of Mini owners and I would say on average, model for model the R56 out does the R53 on fuel economy by around 10mpg.
Just before the inevitable following posts about R53's yes I do think they look better, yes I do think the MCS sounds better and is more fun BUT if you are planning on using a Mini everyday with a decent length commute is makes (economical) sense to go for an R56.
I personally would try to stretch your budget and get an R56, they are much better on fuel. I have a 56 plate cooper S (R56) which I have bought recently direct from Mini and it was £10,500 but they did have standard Coopers there closer to £8,000. The fuel economy on the new S is equivalent to the old Cooper. I know quite a lot of Mini owners and I would say on average, model for model the R56 out does the R53 on fuel economy by around 10mpg.
Just before the inevitable following posts about R53's yes I do think they look better, yes I do think the MCS sounds better and is more fun BUT if you are planning on using a Mini everyday with a decent length commute is makes (economical) sense to go for an R56.
I had a Cooper S for six month's and I would never own another. It's difficult to put my finger on the problem but it was just disappointing,granted it looked good, but it was never really fast enough and the fuel consumption was poor even driven carefully,it also felt heavy. Anyway I got shot of it and bought an EP3 Civic type R, now I'm happy (especially up around 8000rpm) and wouldn't go back.
Look its pretty simple, when going for a mini cooper you have to get the cooper S, if not then you might as well got a VW Polo.
The engineers at MINI/BMW first made the Cooper S and then they said "zis is perfect, fast, agile und fun, zis is vat ve and ze folks vant"
But then marketers said *in a nerdy voice*: "Noooo we need a slower version (the cooper) so that people can try it out because they will eventually want to trade in for, or buy, a Cooper S after a while".
And that's the exact story of how the mini cooper was born (after the cooper s).
Therefore buying a cooper is like buying a shot of beer, eventually you will want the whole glass.
The engineers at MINI/BMW first made the Cooper S and then they said "zis is perfect, fast, agile und fun, zis is vat ve and ze folks vant"
But then marketers said *in a nerdy voice*: "Noooo we need a slower version (the cooper) so that people can try it out because they will eventually want to trade in for, or buy, a Cooper S after a while".
And that's the exact story of how the mini cooper was born (after the cooper s).
Therefore buying a cooper is like buying a shot of beer, eventually you will want the whole glass.
TomBo said:
Look its pretty simple, when going for a mini cooper you have to get the cooper S, if not then you might as well got a VW Polo.
The engineers at MINI/BMW first made the Cooper S and then they said "zis is perfect, fast, agile und fun, zis is vat ve and ze folks vant"
But then marketers said *in a nerdy voice*: "Noooo we need a slower version (the cooper) so that people can try it out because they will eventually want to trade in for, or buy, a Cooper S after a while".
And that's the exact story of how the mini cooper was born (after the cooper s).
Therefore buying a cooper is like buying a shot of beer, eventually you will want the whole glass.
What a load of erm, less than informed drivel.The engineers at MINI/BMW first made the Cooper S and then they said "zis is perfect, fast, agile und fun, zis is vat ve and ze folks vant"
But then marketers said *in a nerdy voice*: "Noooo we need a slower version (the cooper) so that people can try it out because they will eventually want to trade in for, or buy, a Cooper S after a while".
And that's the exact story of how the mini cooper was born (after the cooper s).
Therefore buying a cooper is like buying a shot of beer, eventually you will want the whole glass.
A: the One and Cooper came first, the Cooper S followed some 6-12 months down the line.
B: At the OP's budget it's between an R53 Cooper S that drinks like a fish and an early R56 Cooper that er, doesn't and has done away with the Prince engine in favour of a lovely, smooth and willing Valvetronic jobbie - one of the best N/A four pots IMO. At 9.1s 0-62 and 126 mph top whack it's a bit quicker than your average Polo (as well as any diesel MINI bar the Cooper SD), too and if the prior owner desisted of burdening the car with runflat tyres on huge alloys and assorted other tart-up packs to weigh the poor thing down, it may well be a more rounded car overall.
I'd say the difference between 25 mpg and 40 mpg would be somewhat significant if you're doing proper miles...
RVVUNM said:
I had a Cooper S for six month's and I would never own another. It's difficult to put my finger on the problem but it was just disappointing,granted it looked good, but it was never really fast enough and the fuel consumption was poor even driven carefully,it also felt heavy. Anyway I got shot of it and bought an EP3 Civic type R, now I'm happy (especially up around 8000rpm) and wouldn't go back.
I did the opposite, went from a Type R to a Cooper S (albeit a mildly tuned 200bhp one), got a bit fed up with having to rev the nuts off it & what seemed like having to change gear all the time to keep it 'on the boil'. Much better power delivery from the 'charged engine. After a very happy 6+ years with the MCS, wouldn't go back .I've got an R56 Cooper S, and whilst it's undeniably competent, it's just soooo dull (and that's something I never thought I'd say about the Mini). My main bugbears are:
- Dull, characterless engine, that sounds like a 3cyl on idle
- Seats straight out of a Mini One that offer no support whatsoever
- Torque steer, especially when you hit a bump or pothole the steering wheel is literally wrenched from your hands
- Fisher price interior fixings
- Pathetic excuse for a boot
I've only had it a year, but I dislike it that much I'm trying to get rid. There's nothing seriously wrong with it, but it just hasn't gelled with me. My measure of how much I like a car is usually the amount of time I spend detailing it. The Mini hasn't been done once.
- Dull, characterless engine, that sounds like a 3cyl on idle
- Seats straight out of a Mini One that offer no support whatsoever
- Torque steer, especially when you hit a bump or pothole the steering wheel is literally wrenched from your hands
- Fisher price interior fixings
- Pathetic excuse for a boot
I've only had it a year, but I dislike it that much I'm trying to get rid. There's nothing seriously wrong with it, but it just hasn't gelled with me. My measure of how much I like a car is usually the amount of time I spend detailing it. The Mini hasn't been done once.
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