The Running Thread Vol 2

[RizzoTheRat]

keo said:

You cross country boys really aren’t selling it to me. I’m pissed off if I tread in a puddle haha!

I miss proper cross country, we moved a few years back and everywhere's sandy around here and drains well. We were back in the UK last week and joined our old club for thier local cross country league race. I'm unfit and injured so I ran/walked it, but 8km of woodland trails, mud, puddles, tree roots, potholes, hills, etc on a cold but sunny day was lovely.
Ran Mole Valley parkrun the day before with a reasonable amount of mud and hills too. Hard work when I'm used to 1m of elevation of my local parkrun

[Rosscow]

irish boy said:

For those looking to break 20 (or any target) you need to get your body used to the mechanics of running that speed.

So your intervals should add up to 5 or 6k so 6x800, 12 x400 etc. aim for 100% recovery so if it takes 3 mins to run an 800 rest for 3 mins. (Hills are good too. 10x 1 minute hard up is a good one)

Long run yes easy pace but practice lifting it toward the end. Or another one I like is lifting the pace for the last 400m of every mile.

Tempo should be 30-45 secs a mile slower than 5k race pace (6.50-7 in this case) and last between 20 and 40 mins.

Those 3 key workouts should have at least one clear day between them. Consistency is your friend. As is strength and conditioning which is key and absolutely necessary for injury prevention….especially if you’re barreling towards 50 like me.

Race week pick somewhere flat ish eg a park run, don’t eat within 2 hours of the start line and have a proper warm up of 1-2 miles with some sprints. Get out of breath. And don’t think too much about it. If it doesn’t happen it will some week, it’s a short recovery.

Those are my tips anyway. Everyone is different

Below is approx times for someone aiming for 20 mins.

Good post

[Rosscow]

Tonights track interval session for me:

2000m warm up (8:00 - 8:20 pace)

6 min @ 6:30
75 sec recovery
4 min @ 6:25
75 sec recovery
3 min @ 6:20
60 sec recovery
2 min @ 6:10
60 sec recovery

Then repeat

6 min @ 6:30
75 sec recovery
4 min @ 6:25
75 sec recovery
3 min @ 6:20
60 sec recovery
2 min @ 6:10
60 sec recovery

2000m cool down (8:00 - 8:20)

Should total around 13km.

Rest of the week looking like:

Wednesday rest day
Thursday track tempo and hills session
Friday rest day
Saturday - play golf then run home from club. 13 miles @ 8:20 - 8:40 pace easy run
Sunday 5 miles @ 8:20 - 8:40 pace easy run flush out legs

[irish boy]

5x 1 kilometre repeats tonight. 3.31 target per k.

First couple behind target, last couple ahead.

Tough session will feel it tomorrow.

[GregK2]

irish boy said:

5x 1 kilometre repeats tonight. 3.31 target per k.

First couple behind target, last couple ahead.

Tough session will feel it tomorrow.

Good effort, what recovery? And what is that pace for you in terms of effort?
I tried 6 x 800 yesterday at ~3:45/km Which is where I'd like my 5k pace to be but currently more like 3k pace. Would normally make recovery half of the rep but tried shorter 200m recovery was pretty tough going.

Edited by GregK2 on Wednesday 28th February 09:02

[irish boy]

GregK2 said:

irish boy said:

5x 1 kilometre repeats tonight. 3.31 target per k.

First couple behind target, last couple ahead.

Tough session will feel it tomorrow.

Good effort, what recovery? And what is that pace for you in terms of effort?
I tried 6 x 800 yesterday at ~3:45 Which is where I'd like my 5k pace to be but currently more like 3k pace. Would normally make recovery half of the rep but tried shorter 200m recovery was pretty tough going.

Recovery is 100% so 3m30 seconds and static. I’m not sure why our coach sets that, but he’s multiple world champion at every distance so I just listen and do. Effort level is hard. I probably could keep it up for a 5k currently but everything would have to align perfectly.

But the main thing with intervals is you go at a pace you can at least maintain if not improve on by the last couple. And as said our coach says it’s more important to hit your interval paces with a 100% recovery, than not hit them with a short recovery. Dont ask me the science

I’ll do an hour easy today, 9.30 pace, slightly less on Thursday and then carlingford half on Saturday.

Edited by irish boy on Wednesday 28th February 08:04

[jasonrobertson86]

irish boy said:

Recovery is 100% so 3m30 seconds and static. I’m not sure why our coach sets that, but he’s multiple would champion at every distance so I just listen and do. Effort level is hard. I probably could keep it up for a 5k currently but everything would have to align perfectly.

But the main thing with intervals is you go at a pace you can at least maintain if not improve on by the last couple. And as said our coach says it’s more important to hit your interval paces with a 100% recovery, than not hit them with a short recovery. Dont ask me the science

I’ll do an hour easy today, 9.30 pace, slightly less on Thursday and then carlingford half on Saturday.

Session I did last night (that a running group did) was equal recoveries of 4 x 30sec, 4 x 60, 4 x 60 and back down again. I never quite understood the benefit of each but I think I am going to try full recoveries.

[irish boy]

jasonrobertson86 said:

Session I did last night (that a running group did) was equal recoveries of 4 x 30sec, 4 x 60, 4 x 60 and back down again. I never quite understood the benefit of each but I think I am going to try full recoveries.

Sounds like a tough session too. As for the science, I leave it to people smarter than me. Of which there is many.

What are you training for currently?

[SpydieNut]

irish boy said:

Recovery is 100% so 3m30 seconds and static.

How are you measuring that? Is it pulse rate, breathing, etc? Thank you

[Rosscow]

I think he means whatever time he runs the 1k rep in, he has the same time recovery.

[irish boy]

SpydieNut said:

irish boy said:

Recovery is 100% so 3m30 seconds and static.

How are you measuring that? Is it pulse rate, breathing, etc? Thank you

Yeah so 100% of the length of the rep, which will be different for everyone and different for every rep length.

[Rosscow]

irish boy said:

But the main thing with intervals is you go at a pace you can at least maintain if not improve on by the last couple. And as said our coach says it’s more important to hit your interval paces with a 100% recovery, than not hit them with a short recovery. Dont ask me the science

Exactly this.

[SpydieNut]

irish boy said:

SpydieNut said:

irish boy said:

Recovery is 100% so 3m30 seconds and static.

How are you measuring that? Is it pulse rate, breathing, etc? Thank you

Yeah so 100% of the length of the rep, which will be different for everyone and different for every rep length.

Thank you

[GregK2]

irish boy said:

Recovery is 100% so 3m30 seconds and static. I’m not sure why our coach sets that, but he’s multiple world champion at every distance so I just listen and do. Effort level is hard. I probably could keep it up for a 5k currently but everything would have to align perfectly.

But the main thing with intervals is you go at a pace you can at least maintain if not improve on by the last couple. And as said our coach says it’s more important to hit your interval paces with a 100% recovery, than not hit them with a short recovery. Dont ask me the science

I’ll do an hour easy today, 9.30 pace, slightly less on Thursday and then carlingford half on Saturday.

Edited by irish boy on Wednesday 28th February 08:04

That's interesting, I would have thought 5 x 1k @5k pace with full static recovery would be fairly comfortable but I've never tried anything like it! I was able to keep the 800's consistent but wouldn't have been able to run the last few faster or complete more than 6 reps without the pace starting to drop.

[jasonrobertson86]

irish boy said:

Sounds like a tough session too. As for the science, I leave it to people smarter than me. Of which there is many.

What are you training for currently?

Absolutely there are benefits to longer and shorter recoveries, it was explained to me once but I am going to go with 'both are useful'. I have no race goal as yet but I am just trying to get quicker, enjoy being out and lose some lbs. Averaging 35-40 miles a week YTD. I was considering getting race fit again to where I have been before (50-60 miles a week with quality) but currently about 10lbs too heavy and getting minor niggles with the knee (not sure when running, only when stiff/warming up). It may be a longer journey than I have hoped. That is going to hinder progress.

As for the more recent posts, 5km pace and faster is painful to me....

[irish boy]

GregK2 said:

That's interesting, I would have thought 5 x 1k @5k pace with full static recovery would be fairly comfortable but I've never tried anything like it! I was able to keep the 800's consistent but wouldn't have been able to run the last few faster or complete more than 6 reps without the pace starting to drop.

The problem is to run a sub 17.30 5k is tough. And needs planning/good warm up etc. especially at my age (47 this year) so no matter how you break it down, running 5.30 pace even for 1k is a proper workout. In saying that also, we’re told that you shouldn’t be going into the red line during any workout.

[irish boy]

jasonrobertson86 said:

Absolutely there are benefits to longer and shorter recoveries, it was explained to me once but I am going to go with 'both are useful'. I have no race goal as yet but I am just trying to get quicker, enjoy being out and lose some lbs. Averaging 35-40 miles a week YTD. I was considering getting race fit again to where I have been before (50-60 miles a week with quality) but currently about 10lbs too heavy and getting minor niggles with the knee (not sure when running, only when stiff/warming up). It may be a longer journey than I have hoped. That is going to hinder progress.

As for the more recent posts, 5km pace and faster is painful to me....

That’s brilliant miles. A rarely exceed 30.

[GregK2]

irish boy said:

GregK2 said:

That's interesting, I would have thought 5 x 1k @5k pace with full static recovery would be fairly comfortable but I've never tried anything like it! I was able to keep the 800's consistent but wouldn't have been able to run the last few faster or complete more than 6 reps without the pace starting to drop.

The problem is to run a sub 17.30 5k is tough. And needs planning/good warm up etc. especially at my age (47 this year) so no matter how you break it down, running 5.30 pace even for 1k is a proper workout. In saying that also, we’re told that you shouldn’t be going into the red line during any workout.

Yes that's true and I've not reached those sort of times and I'm nearly 10 years younger! I think I'll experiment with varying recovery times for interval sessions. I also don't have an expert coach and just pluck sessions from the internet

[irish boy]

GregK2 said:

Yes that's true and I've not reached those sort of times and I'm nearly 10 years younger! I think I'll experiment with varying recovery times for interval sessions. I also don't have an expert coach and just pluck sessions from the internet

I only started at 40 with zero fitness background so you’ve plenty of time.

[irish boy]

Ps I posted this before but if anyone wants a good listen then number 48 on the list is an interview with my coach going from a zero fitness background in 2009 to Irish, British and world champion in 2023 in the 3k, 5k, 10k, 10 mile, half and full marathons. And I think he just took the 1500 record at the weekend.

If anyone is local ish then his coaching is free as he sold his business and does this for the reward and enjoyment. The only ask is that you try your best to stick to the weekly plan and come to one strength class per week.


https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/therunning...