England in Dubai vs Pakistan...Cricket.
Discussion
hornetrider said:
mantis84 said:
Interesting how he always wears long sleeves isn't it? 
If that's not a throw, then I don't know what is.
Harris_I said:
It's the degree of extension that counts so not sure what you have worked out from a still picture.
He was cleared in 2009. Sounds like England need to work on their cricket.
He was cleared in 2009. Sounds like England need to work on their cricket.
Harris_I said:
And it's relatively cold in Dubai right now hence why the Pak team are wearing long sleeves. Why would long sleeves disguise extension anyway?
The Barmy Army, on the other hand, seem to think this is shirts off weather...
From the picture you can see how bent his arm is, which would straighten when he releases the ball. I don't doubt that he was cleared by the ICC, but it's far fetched to suggest he isn't chucking it now and again. 22'C in Dubai today so not exactly chilly, especially for playing sport? Long sleeves would lessen the overtness of the chuck - been mentioned several times by the commentary team. The Barmy Army, on the other hand, seem to think this is shirts off weather...
I wasn't suggesting Ajmal being a chucker caused England to lose this test - our batsmen took care of that themselves. Nor am I expecting anything to come of it, just hope that our lot learn to pick him a bit better.
mantis84 said:
Harris_I said:
It's the degree of extension that counts so not sure what you have worked out from a still picture.
He was cleared in 2009. Sounds like England need to work on their cricket.
He was cleared in 2009. Sounds like England need to work on their cricket.
Harris_I said:
And it's relatively cold in Dubai right now hence why the Pak team are wearing long sleeves. Why would long sleeves disguise extension anyway?
The Barmy Army, on the other hand, seem to think this is shirts off weather...
From the picture you can see how bent his arm is, which would straighten when he releases the ball. I don't doubt that he was cleared by the ICC, but it's far fetched to suggest he isn't chucking it now and again. 22'C in Dubai today so not exactly chilly, especially for playing sport? Long sleeves would lessen the overtness of the chuck - been mentioned several times by the commentary team. The Barmy Army, on the other hand, seem to think this is shirts off weather...
I wasn't suggesting Ajmal being a chucker caused England to lose this test - our batsmen took care of that themselves. Nor am I expecting anything to come of it, just hope that our lot learn to pick him a bit better.
Some arms don't straighten on delivery. Some do. You can't tell from a picture. And certainly not from one at the wrong point in the delivery.
Was it Bob Willis who mentioned it? Wouldn't surprise me. Same for Botham and Gower. Atherton, Hussain and Lloyd have historically been a lot less partial when it comes to Eng v Pak games. If they raise the issue I would be inclined to listen.
As for long sleeves, I wore a jumper to the ground yesterday. Some Dubai residents were in jackets and jumpers. It's cold for us. Maybe not for you.
Sump said:
Quality teams get out of situations like thsee.
Than again important quite confident in saying Pakistan produce genuine world class bowling attacks continuously.
You are quite correct, they do indeed which is exactly what I said earlier on. This England team has pretensions of becomming the era defining side, they need to learn how to cope with these situations and recover.Than again important quite confident in saying Pakistan produce genuine world class bowling attacks continuously.
It is also worth repeating that it took the great Aussie side 10yrs of learning how to go to the Subbies and beat them on their patch and this England side are not that Aussie side.
There has been a massive degree of complacency about this test series, as evidenced by on this forum that the default attitude is of England looking to win automatically. Secure the draw first, then look for the win. Bat to make a match safe, bowl to win it. The English talk has all been of Monty winning us the game on Day 5, when in reality England had lost the game by lunchtime Day 1.
Test match cricket: Draw first. Win second.
Harris_I said:
You didn't know the first picture was mid-delivery stride.
Some arms don't straighten on delivery. Some do. You can't tell from a picture. And certainly not from one at the wrong point in the delivery.
Was it Bob Willis who mentioned it? Wouldn't surprise me. Same for Botham and Gower. Atherton, Hussain and Lloyd have historically been a lot less partial when it comes to Eng v Pak games. If they raise the issue I would be inclined to listen.
As for long sleeves, I wore a jumper to the ground yesterday. Some Dubai residents were in jackets and jumpers. It's cold for us. Maybe not for you.
Indeed, the picture can only show so much, but watching it on TV and particularly the slow-motion replays of his action it's as clear as can be that he's chucking it now and again. You are of course entitled to close your eyes and disagree. Some arms don't straighten on delivery. Some do. You can't tell from a picture. And certainly not from one at the wrong point in the delivery.
Was it Bob Willis who mentioned it? Wouldn't surprise me. Same for Botham and Gower. Atherton, Hussain and Lloyd have historically been a lot less partial when it comes to Eng v Pak games. If they raise the issue I would be inclined to listen.
As for long sleeves, I wore a jumper to the ground yesterday. Some Dubai residents were in jackets and jumpers. It's cold for us. Maybe not for you.
Anyway, onwards and upwards. Same team for the next test I reckon - our top order can't possibly play as badly as that again... right?
Sump said:
Does this remind anyone else of the 2005 series?
England "thinking" they're "all that" and promptly put back in place by Pakistan on through first test?
The trouble Pakistan are so inconsistent, you never know which Pakistan will turn up. England "thinking" they're "all that" and promptly put back in place by Pakistan on through first test?
unless you run a betting syndicate.
Sump said:
Does this remind anyone else of the 2005 series?
England "thinking" they're "all that" and promptly put back in place by Pakistan on through first test?
No, but it does remind me of countless tours to Aussie where England rock up to the test series and look thoroughly under-cooked! This is what happens when your batsman havent played any first class cricket for 6 months! And no, ODI and T20 stuff doesnt count when you have a test series against a test attack on their turf in alien conditions to your own. I thought we were passed that level of amateurism now.England "thinking" they're "all that" and promptly put back in place by Pakistan on through first test?
mantis84 said:
Anyway, onwards and upwards. Same team for the next test I reckon - our top order can't possibly play as badly as that again... right?
Leaving Panesar is a huge mistake in my personal opinion. These pitches are prepared for the Pak bowlers, so the English should be fighting fire with fire. Tremlett is a wasted space (and a wasted physique, the man is a giant).el stovey said:
Sump said:
Does this remind anyone else of the 2005 series?
England "thinking" they're "all that" and promptly put back in place by Pakistan on through first test?
The trouble Pakistan are so inconsistent, you never know which Pakistan will turn up. England "thinking" they're "all that" and promptly put back in place by Pakistan on through first test?
unless you run a betting syndicate.
NISMOgtr said:
Bloody hell. Just because Ajmal ripped apart England's batting lineup, suddenly he chucks the ball! Typical English arrogance.
If you can't beat em, get em banned!
? His action has been questioned previously and then approved, so its not as if this is suddenly a new issue. It is a matter of fairly substantial and divisive public record that certain more strict Umpires would take a very harsh stance on his action.If you can't beat em, get em banned!
The whole way that the ICC has dealt with "chucking" and the 15 degrees angle lark hasnt actually done much to clear things up, but rather left the waters murkyish. Hyper-extension or not. The questions are entirely valid, but that he has been cleared by the ICC is also valid. Im personally of the opinion that it doesnt matter that much per se as the guy isnt ripping the ball sideways, he isnt bowling miracle balls and doing nothing that would see him gaining massive advantage from chucking. He is performing well controlled top class spin bowling and the batsmen have simply failed to play him properly.
That of course is completely ignoring that it was Gul who ripped through England's top order today not Ajmal.
mantis84 said:
Yeah, you could be right. So this one then:
Ah what a surprise, England lose and are humiliated by mainly an abject batting performance with incredibly poor shot selection and suddenly the sore losers appear with allegations.Of course as has been pointed out, these allegations have been made before and Ajmal has undergone thorough testing of his action, and it's perfectly within the laws of the game, so live with it.
Have a bit more grace when you lose also, it's pretty distasteful frankly. Fortunately it was only a commentator as moronic and irrelevant and sore as Willis that made such a statement, none of the other commentators on any network have commented on it, because it's irrelevant. Of course I expect Willis to appear tomorrow to say that Gul must have tampered with the ball, or perhaps hypnotised Pietersen into being a reckless t
t.Ignoring the sore losers for now, the next test will be interesting. I don't see England playing as poorly again. I'm sure they'll buck their ideas up quickly enough. It was a great win for Pakistan who outplayed England in all departments (even fielding to a degree) and was well deserved after a good year of consistent performances and good leadership from Misbah. They still have a long way to go, and I suspect that England may find them out in the next 2 tests as I still think their batting is brittle and lacks experience, and England, when bowling with discipline can exploit that.
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