England in West Indies, 2019
Discussion
People getting carried away with this thrashing. Windies are no great shakes, but more than a match for undercooked England. The fundamental issue with England is too many allrounders.
An allrounder should be good enough to get in the team on either discipline. The problem is they dont.
Yes Mooen has picked up cheap wickets here, but is he good enough to get in on single discipline alone? No. Jack leach is a far superior spinner, and hes not in the top 6 batsmen in the country imo.
Stokes probably just gets in under that remit. Bairstow likewise as a batsmen, and Butler simply as wicketkeeper batsmen (even though not keeping)
Pick your 6 best batsmen, and 4 best bowlers for the situation faced.
Anderson shouldn't be playing. Yes hes lethal on an English seaming top still, but there's better horses for courses overseas (like not playing sam curran for starters despite what he did against a barely first class level sri lanka side)
Big issue is Bayliss is not a long format coach, his specialty is limited overs cricket.
Until England stop picking bits and pieces cricketers who are only in due to having a number of average strings to their bow's we will be inconsistent, see Joe Denly, hes only in because he can bowl some tidy spin. Hes record last year was bang average in division 2 - average of 35 or so i think, admittedly it was more a bowlers year but still, no way should he be playing for England in a test match
An allrounder should be good enough to get in the team on either discipline. The problem is they dont.
Yes Mooen has picked up cheap wickets here, but is he good enough to get in on single discipline alone? No. Jack leach is a far superior spinner, and hes not in the top 6 batsmen in the country imo.
Stokes probably just gets in under that remit. Bairstow likewise as a batsmen, and Butler simply as wicketkeeper batsmen (even though not keeping)
Pick your 6 best batsmen, and 4 best bowlers for the situation faced.
Anderson shouldn't be playing. Yes hes lethal on an English seaming top still, but there's better horses for courses overseas (like not playing sam curran for starters despite what he did against a barely first class level sri lanka side)
Big issue is Bayliss is not a long format coach, his specialty is limited overs cricket.
Until England stop picking bits and pieces cricketers who are only in due to having a number of average strings to their bow's we will be inconsistent, see Joe Denly, hes only in because he can bowl some tidy spin. Hes record last year was bang average in division 2 - average of 35 or so i think, admittedly it was more a bowlers year but still, no way should he be playing for England in a test match
Black can man said:
Love these experts that know what we should have done when it's done & dusted.
Sam Curran was pretty impressive with both bat & ball against India last summer & deserved his chance to play in this series.
Oh but my spurs supporting chum, I’m not talking about this series im talking in general. We are all wise after the event of course but I’m referring to our consistent inconsistency!Sam Curran was pretty impressive with both bat & ball against India last summer & deserved his chance to play in this series.
We would have beaten windies had we bothered to have a proper warm up, and likewise had we held our catches in the last game despite the surfeit of allrounders and poor selection.
Sam Curran is a fine player in English conditions with a dukes ball with a seam standing prouder than a honeymooners dick. He is not however a good fit for West Indies conditions, be it the coveted low spinning pitches or the ones we actually got. Neither is jimmy.
thegreenhell said:
Lots of chatter amongst the pundits about bringing Ian Bell back to bat at #3 in the Ashes...
im no fan of bell, but denly and jennings are not the answer.i think vince should have been given 10 tests on the bounce and allowed to grow into it. hes looks far better than the others but will give it away every so often.
i advocate horses for courses with the ball, but not with the bat (although malan makes a compelling case overseas). I think they made a mistake in not scrapping jennings completely as hes had plenty of chances and showed 0 improvement, and stuck with a vince, or someone who has shown potential at domestic level and can improve (not a short term fix in joe denly whose domestic records isn't actually much good anyway).
For openers, alongside Burns, i would try Jason Roy, maybe Hales, Ben Slater at Notts or even Nick Browne at Essex (despite his recent drop in form) who have all shown potential and could grow into the role long term if given a good run in the side on the understanding their place is safe for 10 games or so.
theplayingmantis said:
Gargamel said:
Advocates of dropping Anderson, even overseas know nothing.
Why? whats his record overseas in recent yearshttps://www.bbc.com/sport/cricket/45221065
368 wickets at home at an average of 23.76
196 away at 32.63
Those are career stats
If I look last three years away
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/860...
Then he averages 30.92
So, in fact he is getting better away from home, the 40 wickets were quite handy too.
He is the England attacks most reliable performer, if you stripped out the 2 tests in Sri Lanka on roads he would look even better. 5/43 against Australia and 17 wickets in 5 matches.
If you have a ready made replacement then sure lets have them, but right now he is the third best ranked bowler in the world, and you want to drop him ?
theplayingmantis said:
People getting carried away with this thrashing. Windies are no great shakes, but more than a match for undercooked England. The fundamental issue with England is too many allrounders.
An allrounder should be good enough to get in the team on either discipline. The problem is they dont.
Yes Mooen has picked up cheap wickets here, but is he good enough to get in on single discipline alone? No. Jack leach is a far superior spinner, and hes not in the top 6 batsmen in the country imo.
Stokes probably just gets in under that remit. Bairstow likewise as a batsmen, and Butler simply as wicketkeeper batsmen (even though not keeping)
Pick your 6 best batsmen, and 4 best bowlers for the situation faced.
Anderson shouldn't be playing. Yes hes lethal on an English seaming top still, but there's better horses for courses overseas (like not playing sam curran for starters despite what he did against a barely first class level sri lanka side)
Big issue is Bayliss is not a long format coach, his specialty is limited overs cricket.
Until England stop picking bits and pieces cricketers who are only in due to having a number of average strings to their bow's we will be inconsistent, see Joe Denly, hes only in because he can bowl some tidy spin. Hes record last year was bang average in division 2 - average of 35 or so i think, admittedly it was more a bowlers year but still, no way should he be playing for England in a test match
Some interesting points but I disagree Moeen. I think he's matured into a very good test spinner and the stats back this up. Since 1st Jan 2017 he's taken 79 wickets at 29. That, in my book, is good enough to make him the first choice spinner. He's also a very good number 8 with the bat.An allrounder should be good enough to get in the team on either discipline. The problem is they dont.
Yes Mooen has picked up cheap wickets here, but is he good enough to get in on single discipline alone? No. Jack leach is a far superior spinner, and hes not in the top 6 batsmen in the country imo.
Stokes probably just gets in under that remit. Bairstow likewise as a batsmen, and Butler simply as wicketkeeper batsmen (even though not keeping)
Pick your 6 best batsmen, and 4 best bowlers for the situation faced.
Anderson shouldn't be playing. Yes hes lethal on an English seaming top still, but there's better horses for courses overseas (like not playing sam curran for starters despite what he did against a barely first class level sri lanka side)
Big issue is Bayliss is not a long format coach, his specialty is limited overs cricket.
Until England stop picking bits and pieces cricketers who are only in due to having a number of average strings to their bow's we will be inconsistent, see Joe Denly, hes only in because he can bowl some tidy spin. Hes record last year was bang average in division 2 - average of 35 or so i think, admittedly it was more a bowlers year but still, no way should he be playing for England in a test match
Preparation is the big issue. That Root isn't prepared to admit this is telling.
Anderson, Broad and Ali all warrant continued selection. But new blood in those berths is also badly needed. Not Rashid
Jennings is done.
Burns and Denly should be given more of a go. Pope and Curran and their ilk are solid prospects IMO and should be given as much time on the field as possible to develop with the old timers around them. Woods too
Root, Stokes and Bairstow are obvious picks. Buttler too at the moment.
I'd be cool with Bell, though he's hardly the future at his age.
But it doesn't matter who we pick if we do not prepare as fully as is humanly possible (for every game, no matter what we think of the opponents), and do not drill the team in prep for the right form of cricket.
Anderson, Broad and Ali all warrant continued selection. But new blood in those berths is also badly needed. Not Rashid
Jennings is done.
Burns and Denly should be given more of a go. Pope and Curran and their ilk are solid prospects IMO and should be given as much time on the field as possible to develop with the old timers around them. Woods too
Root, Stokes and Bairstow are obvious picks. Buttler too at the moment.
I'd be cool with Bell, though he's hardly the future at his age.
But it doesn't matter who we pick if we do not prepare as fully as is humanly possible (for every game, no matter what we think of the opponents), and do not drill the team in prep for the right form of cricket.
Gargamel said:
Knock yourself out
https://www.bbc.com/sport/cricket/45221065
368 wickets at home at an average of 23.76
196 away at 32.63
Those are career stats
If I look last three years away
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/860...
Then he averages 30.92
So, in fact he is getting better away from home, the 40 wickets were quite handy too.
He is the England attacks most reliable performer, if you stripped out the 2 tests in Sri Lanka on roads he would look even better. 5/43 against Australia and 17 wickets in 5 matches.
If you have a ready made replacement then sure lets have them, but right now he is the third best ranked bowler in the world, and you want to drop him ?
not bad, i just have memories of his ineffective once kookaburras have gone soft in oz ingrained on my brain.https://www.bbc.com/sport/cricket/45221065
368 wickets at home at an average of 23.76
196 away at 32.63
Those are career stats
If I look last three years away
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/860...
Then he averages 30.92
So, in fact he is getting better away from home, the 40 wickets were quite handy too.
He is the England attacks most reliable performer, if you stripped out the 2 tests in Sri Lanka on roads he would look even better. 5/43 against Australia and 17 wickets in 5 matches.
If you have a ready made replacement then sure lets have them, but right now he is the third best ranked bowler in the world, and you want to drop him ?
i still think its counterproducve keep playing him o/s at his age now, when conditions dont suit. get a young bowler in who could be learnig the ropes. You learn a lot more about rmglish bowlers overseas than at home imo. give jamie porter a go see if he can do anything in non english conditions for example, and save jimmy for the summer.
Well his is 36 and of course time is very much against him. I am unsure he will tour again, but he keeps saying he wants to play for as long as he can.
I am a massive Jimmy fan, and what he has achieved is phenomenal. There are two other fast bowler slots in the team that need decent bowlers.
Wood is a potential opening strike bowler if he can stay fit, but he seems to be unlikely to bowler 20 a day for five days or in a five match series.
We do have some options for bowlers at least. It is opener and 3 that are the real problems.
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