Ice hockey player dies
Discussion
President Merkin said:
Pommy said:
Seen the clip and it looks deliberate.
Sheetmaself said:
Looks entirely natural to me as a ice hockey player. Please don’t start suggesting anything like this, and i feel the need to politely ask you both to delete these posts.
Ice Hockey is not played with malice, it is played with a strong ethical code, yes we may punch each other, but that stops when defeat is accepted or injury is deemed.
It is a sport where the players act in a manner where fans are still comfortable sitting with each other.
It is a sport that i love, that i have only ever received respect from my fellow players be it on my team or the opposite side.
The UK and i suspect Worldwide Hockey community is currently in grieving as this does not happen in our sport.
Obviously it is up to you whether you decide to or not, but i sincerely hope that you do.
Have a good evening all x
There's always one.Ice Hockey is not played with malice, it is played with a strong ethical code, yes we may punch each other, but that stops when defeat is accepted or injury is deemed.
It is a sport where the players act in a manner where fans are still comfortable sitting with each other.
It is a sport that i love, that i have only ever received respect from my fellow players be it on my team or the opposite side.
The UK and i suspect Worldwide Hockey community is currently in grieving as this does not happen in our sport.
Obviously it is up to you whether you decide to or not, but i sincerely hope that you do.
Have a good evening all x
Pommy said:
Seen the clip and it looks deliberate. You can see the player looking at him coming in and aims for him.
Matt Pelgrave, the opposition player has a big reputation for bad behaviour.
More noise coming out that it was no accident and police now investigating.
What noise? Speculation will probably be from the same morons who have been sharing the video.Matt Pelgrave, the opposition player has a big reputation for bad behaviour.
More noise coming out that it was no accident and police now investigating.
Edited by Pommy on Monday 30th October 11:42
Only one person will know if it was deliberate or not!
Do the police not investigate every incident where someone is killed?
Do the police
I would urge those who think this was deliberate, watch the clip again in slow motion and come up with a rational reason as to why you think it was deliberate. Its difficult to make out but here's what I think happened.
Before the orange player makes the fatal contact, he makes an initial albeit brief contact with the first attacker in white. Its a very tight tolerance but to me it looks like the left skate cleared no problem, but he then caught his right skate on the right heel of the initial attackers boot, turning the foot outwards. This was enough to cause an imbalance and in trying to maintain balance he has overcompensated causing him to "tip" onto the nose of the blade, head goes forward, body follows, leg swings up.
Now keep in mind this happened in a matter of 2 seconds, at 20mph or so, there's a lot of momentum.
I maintain that this was a complete accident, the movement is so unnatural to anyone who has played the game before. The issue with even attempting to check someone this way would not only be a risk of injury to yourself, but also a "good" check in hockey is one where you can remain on your feet and be back in action asap. A dirty check almost exclusively goes for the head of the other player with either your hands, shoulder or a "jump" into them with both feet off the ice.
The police will be investigating this as a matter of course. Trial by media is not what the players family or friends need right now.
Before the orange player makes the fatal contact, he makes an initial albeit brief contact with the first attacker in white. Its a very tight tolerance but to me it looks like the left skate cleared no problem, but he then caught his right skate on the right heel of the initial attackers boot, turning the foot outwards. This was enough to cause an imbalance and in trying to maintain balance he has overcompensated causing him to "tip" onto the nose of the blade, head goes forward, body follows, leg swings up.
Now keep in mind this happened in a matter of 2 seconds, at 20mph or so, there's a lot of momentum.
I maintain that this was a complete accident, the movement is so unnatural to anyone who has played the game before. The issue with even attempting to check someone this way would not only be a risk of injury to yourself, but also a "good" check in hockey is one where you can remain on your feet and be back in action asap. A dirty check almost exclusively goes for the head of the other player with either your hands, shoulder or a "jump" into them with both feet off the ice.
The police will be investigating this as a matter of course. Trial by media is not what the players family or friends need right now.
Edited by Pete102 on Monday 30th October 13:35
Edited by Pete102 on Monday 30th October 13:45
Pommy said:
Seen the clip and it looks deliberate. You can see the player looking at him coming in and aims for him.
Matt Pelgrave, the opposition player has a big reputation for bad behaviour.
More noise coming out that it was no accident and police now investigating.
Exactly what I thought and I was quite surprised to see people on here with experience saying it was an accident Matt Pelgrave, the opposition player has a big reputation for bad behaviour.
More noise coming out that it was no accident and police now investigating.
Edited by Pommy on Monday 30th October 11:42
He lifts his leg to block the player coming into him its even more shocking in slow motion.
And the players reaction after, not even going to see how he was and skating off in the other direction.
Even if it can't be proven it was deliberately, there's got to be a big case of negligence against the guy for raising his skate that high manslaughter possibly.
Edited by SmoothCriminal on Monday 30th October 13:55
SmoothCriminal said:
Exactly what I thought and I was quite surprised to see people on here with experience saying it was an accident
He lifts his leg to block the player coming into him its even more shocking in slow motion.
And the players reaction after, not even going to see how he was and skating off in the other direction.
Even if it can't be proven it was deliberately, there's got to be a big case of negligence against the guy for raising his skate that high manslaughter possibly.
Given I was in attendance it didn't show the bit afterwards where he was in bits and inconsolable, I don't think he realsied at first how bad it was, These are hardly the actions of a psychopath which is what you are suggesting if you think a staker would purposely use his skate as a weapon.He lifts his leg to block the player coming into him its even more shocking in slow motion.
And the players reaction after, not even going to see how he was and skating off in the other direction.
Even if it can't be proven it was deliberately, there's got to be a big case of negligence against the guy for raising his skate that high manslaughter possibly.
Edited by SmoothCriminal on Monday 30th October 13:55
Given that none of the rivals fans have called it dirty and have been calling it is what it is an accident speaks volumes. If you knew anything about the sport everyone loves to give Sheffield grief (mainly deserved).
The ex player has already described how this could happen and if you are new to the sport I can forgive not knowing, but anyone who knows the sport and suggests it was intentional is either a troll or a moron.
48 hours on and still cant stop thinking about it and its frankly insulting to all involved to have to deal with nonsense like this
Pommy said:
Seen the clip and it looks deliberate. You can see the player looking at him coming in and aims for him.
Matt Pelgrave, the opposition player has a big reputation for bad behaviour.
More noise coming out that it was no accident and police now investigating.
Yes, I saw some comments on Twitter where someone said he took two swipes at him in the slow-motion replay.Matt Pelgrave, the opposition player has a big reputation for bad behaviour.
More noise coming out that it was no accident and police now investigating.
Edited by Pommy on Monday 30th October 11:42
Im at a loss how people think its deliberate, and a lot of the slow-mo zoomed in clips miss the body check that he only just caught his shoulder/left arm. An absolutely tragic accident.
And stuff like this;
And stuff like this;
Zoon said:
Yes, I saw some comments on Twitter where someone said he took two swipes at him in the slow-motion replay.
Is utter pish, easily disproved by actually watching the clip. As well as the comment where he say him coming, Petgrave didnt his focus looked to be completely on the player he attempted to body check.Edited by Tam_Mullen on Monday 30th October 15:17
king weapons coming out with 'black man murders white man live and no-one cares' because they're fCuriosity got the better of me after reading the comments. I had assumed that the player had accidentally stood on the other player. I didn't expect to see what I did.
I think the player has made an effort to kick the other player. Obviously he's not intentionally killed him, but I do think there was intent to hit him.
His direction changes to going directly at the player. The high boot is ahead of him and in the direction of his momentum. He's not using that as a counterbalance.
I think the player has made an effort to kick the other player. Obviously he's not intentionally killed him, but I do think there was intent to hit him.
His direction changes to going directly at the player. The high boot is ahead of him and in the direction of his momentum. He's not using that as a counterbalance.
I’ll admit it looked intentional to me also, not that the goal was to cause serious harm mind you, but as a poorly executed block, and I see that the player in question has form for bad behaviour.
Only he knows for sure, but whichever, he will be getting an awful amount of it on social media.
He will be living with it for the rest of his life, accident or not.
However, I see that ex/current player's here have supported the accident theory, so whilst it looks unnatural to me, I’ll keep an open mind to their knowledge.
Only he knows for sure, but whichever, he will be getting an awful amount of it on social media.
He will be living with it for the rest of his life, accident or not.
However, I see that ex/current player's here have supported the accident theory, so whilst it looks unnatural to me, I’ll keep an open mind to their knowledge.
Edited by usn90 on Monday 30th October 18:56
Your post above hits the nail on the head.
Skating has a completely different flow to running or walking. We’re trying to keep balance, momentum and direction whilst playing a fast paced and as above, you more often than not have a huge amount of momentum as you, the weight of the equipment and your speed all add to this.
From a skating point of view i see nothing untoward at all about the movement of the skater who impacts, and for me this is the hardest thing. It could so easy happen again tomorrow, even with a neck guard in place which are that horrible only netminders have any form of protection for the throat and this is mainly to stop pucks not skates.
I have just seen that neck guards are now compulsory for UK hockey.
Skating has a completely different flow to running or walking. We’re trying to keep balance, momentum and direction whilst playing a fast paced and as above, you more often than not have a huge amount of momentum as you, the weight of the equipment and your speed all add to this.
From a skating point of view i see nothing untoward at all about the movement of the skater who impacts, and for me this is the hardest thing. It could so easy happen again tomorrow, even with a neck guard in place which are that horrible only netminders have any form of protection for the throat and this is mainly to stop pucks not skates.
I have just seen that neck guards are now compulsory for UK hockey.
Edited by Sheetmaself on Monday 30th October 20:14
usn90 said:
I’ll admit it looked intentional to me also, not that the goal was to cause serious harm mind you, but as a poorly executed block, and I see that the player in question has form for bad behaviour.
Only he knows for sure, but whichever, he will be getting an awful amount of it on social media.
He will be living with it for the rest of his life, accident or not.
However, I see that ex/current player's here have supported the accident theory, so whilst it looks unnatural to me, I’ll keep an open mind to their knowledge.
Same, looks like he put his foot out to push off/push away/foul, but players here say otherwise so I'll hang on. Is it true he "racked up the most penalty minutes (2022-2023 season)"? Only he knows for sure, but whichever, he will be getting an awful amount of it on social media.
He will be living with it for the rest of his life, accident or not.
However, I see that ex/current player's here have supported the accident theory, so whilst it looks unnatural to me, I’ll keep an open mind to their knowledge.
Edited by usn90 on Monday 30th October 18:56
You watch the effort and strictness now in rugby on head contacts etc - also a high kinetic sport - and I presume ice hockey is similarly advanced? Is there nothing about getting your razor skates higher than 3ft off the ground or something?
andy_s said:
Same, looks like he put his foot out to push off/push away/foul, but players here say otherwise so I'll hang on. Is it true he "racked up the most penalty minutes (2022-2023 season)"?
He got a fair few, but it's skewed by a few games, of his 120 ish penalty minutes, 32 were from one match for giving the ref abuse, another game he got 25 for fighting. So out of 54 games nearly half his penalties were in 2 games.He is not renowned as a dirty player, this season his record is very good for a defensive player
cymatty said:
andy_s said:
Same, looks like he put his foot out to push off/push away/foul, but players here say otherwise so I'll hang on. Is it true he "racked up the most penalty minutes (2022-2023 season)"?
He got a fair few, but it's skewed by a few games, of his 120 ish penalty minutes, 32 were from one match for giving the ref abuse, another game he got 25 for fighting. So out of 54 games nearly half his penalties were in 2 games.He is not renowned as a dirty player, this season his record is very good for a defensive player
I've just seen this and also thought it look he was deliberately going for a kick - of course no intention to kill him but still....
Proving it is another thing entirely.......esp if hockey players are saying it could be a natural move
edit - having said that it does look like a skate clash....could that cause his leg to go up like that? i'd need some convincing.
Proving it is another thing entirely.......esp if hockey players are saying it could be a natural move
edit - having said that it does look like a skate clash....could that cause his leg to go up like that? i'd need some convincing.
Edited by Mojooo on Monday 30th October 23:37
A few ex players have also said it wasn't an accident.
https://www.hockeyfeed.com/nhl-news/3-ex-nhlers-so...
https://www.hockeyfeed.com/nhl-news/3-ex-nhlers-so...
To and explain the biomechanics involved, next time you go ice skating rent a pair of hockey skates, the ones with a rounded front blade, not the spikey ones found on figure skates.
Stand stationary and gently lean forward onto your toes, you'll find that the skates want to go backwards, underneath your centre of mass. This will lead to your head going forward and a loss of balance.
The same has happened here as a result of the slight skate clash albeit on one skate only, and at speed.
The area for doubt is why was his left foot off the ice, if it was planted he probably wouldn't have gotten so out of shape. There are two possibilities in my mind, firstly is the speed and sharpness of the turn, sometimes it can lead to a lifting of inside leg (ensuring maximum pressure on the outside skate) - like in skiing. Secondly is that he realised a clean hit couldn't be made and subsequent adjustments threw him further out of shape resulting in a bit of a hail Mary attempt.
Uk hockey are now mandating neck guards from 1st January, my personal view is that this is a very specific measure against a very rare event and not entirely necessary but there is understandably alot of outrage, grief and emotion.
Stand stationary and gently lean forward onto your toes, you'll find that the skates want to go backwards, underneath your centre of mass. This will lead to your head going forward and a loss of balance.
The same has happened here as a result of the slight skate clash albeit on one skate only, and at speed.
The area for doubt is why was his left foot off the ice, if it was planted he probably wouldn't have gotten so out of shape. There are two possibilities in my mind, firstly is the speed and sharpness of the turn, sometimes it can lead to a lifting of inside leg (ensuring maximum pressure on the outside skate) - like in skiing. Secondly is that he realised a clean hit couldn't be made and subsequent adjustments threw him further out of shape resulting in a bit of a hail Mary attempt.
Uk hockey are now mandating neck guards from 1st January, my personal view is that this is a very specific measure against a very rare event and not entirely necessary but there is understandably alot of outrage, grief and emotion.
Edited by Pete102 on Tuesday 31st October 06:53
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