RWC 2015

[a311]

spikeyhead said:

We're decided to put the first team out for the this Saturday's game against France.

England team to face France
Mike Brown; Jack Nowell, Jonathan Joseph, Luther Burrell, Jonny May; George Ford, Ben Youngs; Joe Marler, Tom Youngs, Dan Cole; Joe Launchbury, Courtney Lawes; James Haskell, Chris Robshaw (capt), Billy Vunipola.

Replacements: Jamie George, Mako Vunipola, David Wilson, Dave Attwood, Nick Easter, Danny Care, Danny Cipriani, Billy Twelvetrees.

Just seen this. I reckon Wood is still preferred at 6 and Barrit at 12. Heard that Barrit was carrying a slight injury. For me Burrell is firmly in the camp of 'good premiership player that doesn't look like he'll cut it at international level'. He's got plenty of company there with Billy 36 well cemented. His try scoring record is pretty good but his defense is wanting. I'd drop 36 and Burrell and keep Slade and Burgess in.

I slightly worried about any of that lot getting injured in the warm ups particularly Joseph and Ford. Gona be good to see the Launchbury back. Good team, thought Easter was injured I don't expect he'll make the final cut anyhow.

[DJRC]

Must admit I think Slammin and JJ could be a good partnership. Certainly
Good to have competition there.

[a311]

DJRC said:

Must admit I think Slammin and JJ could be a good partnership. Certainly
Good to have competition there.

Agree, with a 10 that can think on his feet Burgess if nothing else attracts defenders to him leaving space. I'd like to see him just a make a few of those hits again...... Physicality was immense.

[irocfan]

a311 said:

DJRC said:

Must admit I think Slammin and JJ could be a good partnership. Certainly
Good to have competition there.

Agree, with a 10 that can think on his feet Burgess if nothing else attracts defenders to him leaving space. I'd like to see him just a make a few of those hits again...... Physicality was immense.

interesting there have car @ 9 Cips/Ford at 10 JJ & SB in the centres and the oppo won't know whether to defend against a battering ram SB, twinkle toes JJ/F or speed DC/DC

[a311]

I see there is a planned overall of when the draw for future world cups takes place. Having it 3 odd years out is a bit daft if you want to have a true reflection on a teams ranking Ir reckon you need to do it 6-12 months out.

Looking at the groups you'd expect NZ and SA to walk theirs, does that leave them under-cooked or fresh of the QF's?

[irocfan]

hasn't that always been NZ's problem, being slightly under-done?

[a311]

irocfan said:

hasn't that always been NZ's problem, being slightly under-done?

France are usually NZ's biggest problem in a world cup

[phil_cardiff]

spikeyhead said:

We're decided to put the first team out for the this Saturday's game against France.

England team to face France
Mike Brown; Jack Nowell, Jonathan Joseph, Luther Burrell, Jonny May; George Ford, Ben Youngs; Joe Marler, Tom Youngs, Dan Cole; Joe Launchbury, Courtney Lawes; James Haskell, Chris Robshaw (capt), Billy Vunipola.

Replacements: Jamie George, Mako Vunipola, David Wilson, Dave Attwood, Nick Easter, Danny Care, Danny Cipriani, Billy Twelvetrees.

Good front 5. Drop Haskell for Armitage and move Robshaw to 6 and that's a very good pack. Shame Armitage is unavailable for you.

[London424]

Unfortunately with Hartley having been an idiot our line out throwing is awful now. You can't win much against the big boys if you can't secure your own throw.

[Slaav]

My biggest fear (bar none) is that Farrell is deemed the safe pair of hands and gets to start too many games.

My second worry is that Cips doesn't make it. Not only is he (by some way) one of the most talented and naturally gifted payers of his generation, he has so knuckled down under Diamond and Lancaster that most of his faults have simply been dealt with. To snuff out his drive, desire and talent at this stage in the build up to a home RWC will lose him forever. Unforgiveable!

Cooper for Oz and Carlos Spencer for NZ spring to mind.

I am also prepared to change my mind and have Slammin' Sam in the squad and that is the biggest turnaround since Wasps stuffed Leicester in the final game of Martin Johnson's career.....

[Kendrik]

I think Cipriani will not make the squad which will be a shame - he's going to take Ford and Farrrell so his only hope I suspect is to nudge out Goode as the reserve 15/10. I'd want him there in case Ford gets injured as I'd want an alternative beyond just Farrell. Might depend whether Slade goes too I suppose. Either way, you've got to feel a bit sorry for Cipriani in his efforts to cement a place in the squad.

Ditto re Sam - hard to imagine anyone else taking such an inexperienced player but he clearly brings something to the team beyond smashing a few people into the ground. It's also a reflection on he rest of the players who have failed to make a mark at 12. If Nonu was English I'm not sure Sam would be such a hot topic....

[DJRC]

My sympathy and long standing support of Cips is tempered somewhat by his being a dick away from the field on a continual too regular basis. Every time he puts himself in position to benefit from having more ability than most of the rest of the 10s in England combined - he does something off the field to bugger it up.

[London424]

I thought this was a good article by Sir Clive about squad makeup and the balance between forwards and backs.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/articl...

[phil_cardiff]

London424 said:

Unfortunately with Hartley having been an idiot our line out throwing is awful now. You can't win much against the big boys if you can't secure your own throw.

Is it really that bad? If so the lineouts against us will be hilarious as we can't even be guaranteed to win front ball!

[prand]

phil_cardiff said:

Is it really that bad? If so the lineouts against us will be hilarious as we can't even be guaranteed to win front ball!

Poor throwing could arguably have cost us a couple of key games in the last year or so against NZ and in the 6N.

I've seen this happen a few times (happened again on Sat night). Pressure (often hard work in a scrum or turnover) in the middle of the pitch results in a penalty kick to the opponents tryline, England lineout is gifted by a rubbish through to the opposition, pressure and opporunity lost.

Interesting to see Cipriani on the bench and no Farrell at all. Should be a good game, lining up for a hell of a final game against Ireland.

[a311]

Looks like Corbs has picked up an injury: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/intern...

Is he made of glass? It seems like he's been around for a good while it seems and is only 26. A lot of folk reckon he's not adapted to the new (old) scrum laws but I reckon he's just not had a decent run due to injury.

Said it before but Farrell is a good if somewhat limited fly half. Problem is Lancaster has tried to build a team around him since taking the reigns and then through injury and a forced change of personnel has also changed the way the team plays. It is of course not just on Farrell but the center partnership too, England with Farrell is like Saracens with Farrell. Relies on forward dominance and generally playing the percentages (see the premiership final for evidence). This style of play will get you across the line against most teams up until you come up against a team that match or exceed your pack and/or have something in the backs. I guess the majority of fans want to see an attacking brand of rugby which is all well and good but should stick to our strengths.

Lineout is a worry but I believe Youngs had better stats than Hartley last season? Granted this might be skewed (doesn't account for where the throw went to). Few pundits murmuring that the door could be open for Hartley as his ban will be up after the Fiji game. I doubt it as he's missed the training camp etc.

36 and Burrell need to have a stormer on Saturday to be in the final squad. I'd just drop both these two for Slade and Burgess, I think more so we need Slade in there to provide cover for Joseph.Lancaster it seems is pig headed though and often talks about credit in the bank, which I reckon in his eyes Burrell probably has?

Cips is a goner after Goode's showing on Sat. Best bet was to cover as a utility back, but if Slade comes in there's also less need for him to cover 10.

Seems to be a lot of criticism in the press/from pundits looking forward to the WC getting started.

[dom9]

a311 said:

Looks like Corbs has picked up an injury: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/intern...

Is he made of glass? It seems like he's been around for a good while it seems and is only 26. A lot of folk reckon he's not adapted to the new (old) scrum laws but I reckon he's just not had a decent run due to injury.

Said it before but Farrell is a good if somewhat limited fly half. Problem is Lancaster has tried to build a team around him since taking the reigns and then through injury and a forced change of personnel has also changed the way the team plays. It is of course not just on Farrell but the center partnership too, England with Farrell is like Saracens with Farrell. Relies on forward dominance and generally playing the percentages (see the premiership final for evidence). This style of play will get you across the line against most teams up until you come up against a team that match or exceed your pack and/or have something in the backs. I guess the majority of fans want to see an attacking brand of rugby which is all well and good but should stick to our strengths.

Lineout is a worry but I believe Youngs had better stats than Hartley last season? Granted this might be skewed (doesn't account for where the throw went to). Few pundits murmuring that the door could be open for Hartley as his ban will be up after the Fiji game. I doubt it as he's missed the training camp etc.

36 and Burrell need to have a stormer on Saturday to be in the final squad. I'd just drop both these two for Slade and Burgess, I think more so we need Slade in there to provide cover for Joseph.Lancaster it seems is pig headed though and often talks about credit in the bank, which I reckon in his eyes Burrell probably has?

Cips is a goner after Goode's showing on Sat. Best bet was to cover as a utility back, but if Slade comes in there's also less need for him to cover 10.

Seems to be a lot of criticism in the press/from pundits looking forward to the WC getting started.

Agree with all that... Think we may need Slade to cover JJ and think Cips will be (sadly) out... If Ford got injured, we'd suddenly look very weak at 10 though.

Could Cips be a good shout for 10, 13, 15 utility cover as opposed to Slade?

SL has stuck with Farrell far too long and I suspect we're now stuck with him but I am confident that Ford will be starting at least.

We suddenly seem to have a lot of good inside centers... But is that distracting from a problem that we don't have many 13s, which means the partnership may never reach its full potential as the 'final pair' just won't have had much 'together time'?

[z4RRSchris]

I'm going to the match so hope to see a first choice side smash the frogs.

any good pre match spots where U.S. rosbeeuf congregate?

[a311]

dom9 said:

Agree with all that... Think we may need Slade to cover JJ and think Cips will be (sadly) out... If Ford got injured, we'd suddenly look very weak at 10 though.

Could Cips be a good shout for 10, 13, 15 utility cover as opposed to Slade?

SL has stuck with Farrell far too long and I suspect we're now stuck with him but I am confident that Ford will be starting at least.

We suddenly seem to have a lot of good inside centers... But is that distracting from a problem that we don't have many 13s, which means the partnership may never reach its full potential as the 'final pair' just won't have had much 'together time'?

Yep I reckon Cips is more in the Ford mold if you want someone like for like, if Ford were to go down injured in a big game and you've got Farrell coming on to me it just completely changes the style of play (for the worse) Farrell to me isn't bench cover, not because he's crap I just don't see what he brings if he doesn't start. Although I've not seen him play there I'd have though Cips could cover the centers. To me the CV for a 12 was always for a #10 with a bit more size and/or speed, while 13 plays a bit more like a winger so should be quicker. I reckon that's why Fazzlet doesn't really work at inside center, he'll defend well and in theory distribute but lacks pace and the size to crash it up when required. Burgess in comparison has good handling skills, defense and the size to truck it up. He arguably not the quickest off the mark but doesn't strike me as being any slower than Farrell or Brad Barritt.

On paper 36 and Burrell should make a good center paring, Burrell's a bit more a Mike Tindall 13, but not as good. On paper 36 is an ideal 12, basically a big 10 with pace.

I've not really said much about Barritt as I reckon he's in the final the squad (definite barring injury) and is probably Lancaster's preferred starter. For me he's a bit underrated and a bit like the Robshaw of the back, he's very consistent and just goes about his job but is a bit limited. I reckon if he were a bit bigger he'd probably be a backrow forward rather than a back.

[irocfan]

To be honest I do think that on paper 36 has it all, he's big, fast(ish), good hands, can play 10 in an emergency. He should be a shoo-in and yet... and yet... I have to be honest and say that he would be the first person out of the squad for me, just too inconsistent (possibly a flat track bully).

JJ - on current form he'd have to be in

BB - shows more delicate touches than you'd expect but is still maybe a little limited, however his defence is world-class and is something that is needed so he'd stay.

SB - had a very good showing against the Frogs and did not embarrass himself (the yellow could have been given against seasoned union players not paying attention). What he does have is a 'big game' mentality and like BB will run through walls for you. A possible

Slade - by traditional standards maybe a little small (but then again so is Conrad Smith.....) but good Lord he wasn't cowed(though was fortunate not to be shown a yellow) and seemed to have a little sprinkle of magic to unlock defenses. A possible

LB - had a good series of games a little while ago but hasn't really 'kicked on' and doesn't seem to impose himself on matches like he c/should. That being said he does seem to have (like SB) good hands and decent pace


as for flies -

Ford is (rightly) nailed on

Fazlet is (IMO) too limited. Possibly the sort of player you bring on to sit on a lead because he's not got the imagination to do much. Yes he tackles well and has a good record from the tee but there's a distinct lack of pace and the petulance he brings is very unwelcome (in fact I'm surprised he's not been pinged on it)

Cips has got a reputation as a good time Charlie but seems to have worked hard to cure this... on the pitch he's also had a reputation of being a shirker WRT tackling 0 though he's worked hard on that and is no longer the (potential) liability he was (though to be fair not as good as Fazlet). What he does have though is PACE and vision - both of which can terrify even the best teams (look at the AB tour where he nearly ghosted through their line) if he has good support. His kicking % is now also good


FB

Brown - nailed on

Goode - played a blinder against France but if I'm honest that was the only match where I've been convinced by him so jury's still out

Foden - if he'd had some game time we wouldn't be talking about Goode as he is sooooo much better