The **BOXING** thread Vol 2
Discussion
Parker vs. Takam was a proper heavyweight fight. Looked like Parker was flagging a bit later on and started to up his work rate to pinch rounds when it mattered. I think he'll be a good challenge for AJ. It's just a question of when that fight happens.
Haye's show was a joke, good job it wasn't a PPV. I don't think either result was in doubt really. Haye builds his record, earns a few quid and keeps his name in the hat without breaking a sweat. He'll eventually start to call out AJ and it all builds towards a summer 2017 showdown IMO. Can't see Fury agreeing to fight Haye after Haye pulled out of two fights with him. There seems to be genuine bad blood there which would make it all the more interesting though. Quite impressed with Briggs, he looked sharp for a guy of his age. I still think that against a better class of opponent he is out of there early on though. For me Haye KOs him within 4 rounds.
Haye's show was a joke, good job it wasn't a PPV. I don't think either result was in doubt really. Haye builds his record, earns a few quid and keeps his name in the hat without breaking a sweat. He'll eventually start to call out AJ and it all builds towards a summer 2017 showdown IMO. Can't see Fury agreeing to fight Haye after Haye pulled out of two fights with him. There seems to be genuine bad blood there which would make it all the more interesting though. Quite impressed with Briggs, he looked sharp for a guy of his age. I still think that against a better class of opponent he is out of there early on though. For me Haye KOs him within 4 rounds.
i think parker's skill set looks more complete than joshua's at this point in time.....but joshua looks to carry a lot more pop. great fight that will have taught parker more than joshua's last 5 will have taught him....if there's any stumbling blocks to parker/joshua i would love to see parker versus pulev you know
tuscaneer said:
my tuppence worth chaps......
joseph parker defeated carlos takam on points in a great fight from new zealand on saturday to secure a shot at joshua. pretty much gone under the radar......
I think the explanation is.joseph parker defeated carlos takam on points in a great fight from new zealand on saturday to secure a shot at joshua. pretty much gone under the radar......
1. Currently little name recognition of Parker. Haye is well established with the public (Either through his box achievements or via his appearances on reality shows).
2. The Haye fight was on a channel that most people can access at a time when lots of people are looking for something to watch. Was the Parker fight on Sky Sports?
Fittster said:
tuscaneer said:
my tuppence worth chaps......
joseph parker defeated carlos takam on points in a great fight from new zealand on saturday to secure a shot at joshua. pretty much gone under the radar......
I think the explanation is.joseph parker defeated carlos takam on points in a great fight from new zealand on saturday to secure a shot at joshua. pretty much gone under the radar......
1. Currently little name recognition of Parker. Haye is well established with the public (Either through his box achievements or via his appearances on reality shows).
2. The Haye fight was on a channel that most people can access at a time when lots of people are looking for something to watch. Was the Parker fight on Sky Sports?
he's a business man and he's timing his run to get a belt. i think he's still got a better chance than most too.
parker's fight was on sky sports 3 at 11am saturday......no idea of how many viewers he got.....but being a big name in a tiny nation like new zealand doesn't mean a thing......hence him having to fight guys like takam while joshua fights breazeale and haye fights that balloon on saturday.......it will standd him in great stead when the big fights come...
tuscaneer said:
david haye blasts out some no hoper and there are 5 pages of moaning about it here. don't get me wrong, the whole thing was circus but the irony of 5 pages of moaning about it proves david's point. he IS big business, regardless of who he fights. nobody had to sit through that on saturday night but a hell of a lot of people did.
I think we all know that, we're just surprised at how bad it all was. I thought he had more about him to be able to promote a better card/show.hornetrider said:
tuscaneer said:
david haye blasts out some no hoper and there are 5 pages of moaning about it here. don't get me wrong, the whole thing was circus but the irony of 5 pages of moaning about it proves david's point. he IS big business, regardless of who he fights. nobody had to sit through that on saturday night but a hell of a lot of people did.
I think we all know that, we're just surprised at how bad it all was. I thought he had more about him to be able to promote a better card/show."over promise and under deliver"....pretty much sums up the last few years of haye's career!!
i expected no less.
the briggs fight will be the same, for about 5 rounds, before haye unplugs him from his 44 year old senses and pockets a fortune to boot.
then, and only then, will we finally see what haye 2.0 is really capable of producing.....and i am expecting big things ( i just hope he stops wearing them f
king bk strangling shorts!!)tuscaneer said:
i think parker's skill set looks more complete than joshua's at this point in time.....but joshua looks to carry a lot more pop. great fight that will have taught parker more than joshua's last 5 will have taught him....if there's any stumbling blocks to parker/joshua i would love to see parker versus pulev you know
Possibly the first post I completely disagree with you on. Parker looked inaccurate, raw and his inexperience was quite obvious. Don't get me wrong, I don't think he's st, but I certainly don't think that AJ would have any issues with knocking him out- he was very easy to hit. Haye and Whyte would probably beat him with relative ease too.StuTheGrouch said:
tuscaneer said:
i think parker's skill set looks more complete than joshua's at this point in time.....but joshua looks to carry a lot more pop. great fight that will have taught parker more than joshua's last 5 will have taught him....if there's any stumbling blocks to parker/joshua i would love to see parker versus pulev you know
Possibly the first post I completely disagree with you on. Parker looked inaccurate, raw and his inexperience was quite obvious. Don't get me wrong, I don't think he's st, but I certainly don't think that AJ would have any issues with knocking him out- he was very easy to hit. Haye and Whyte would probably beat him with relative ease too.was it that parker was that inaccurate, or takam was effective in his defence?....
i see parker's footwork is much better than joshua's at this point...but i definately agree that joshua carries way more firepower. what parker was missing with against takam i can see landing on joshua with more frequency.....
....but can parker stand up to that power?? only time will tell...i'd love to see aj fight takam to guage their relative performances.....povetkin has been the only guy to put takam over amateur or pro so if aj can stop him then that's a spot on performance right there
tuscaneer said:
StuTheGrouch said:
tuscaneer said:
i think parker's skill set looks more complete than joshua's at this point in time.....but joshua looks to carry a lot more pop. great fight that will have taught parker more than joshua's last 5 will have taught him....if there's any stumbling blocks to parker/joshua i would love to see parker versus pulev you know
Possibly the first post I completely disagree with you on. Parker looked inaccurate, raw and his inexperience was quite obvious. Don't get me wrong, I don't think he's st, but I certainly don't think that AJ would have any issues with knocking him out- he was very easy to hit. Haye and Whyte would probably beat him with relative ease too.was it that parker was that inaccurate, or takam was effective in his defence?....
i see parker's footwork is much better than joshua's at this point...but i definately agree that joshua carries way more firepower. what parker was missing with against takam i can see landing on joshua with more frequency.....
....but can parker stand up to that power?? only time will tell...i'd love to see aj fight takam to guage their relative performances.....povetkin has been the only guy to put takam over amateur or pro so if aj can stop him then that's a spot on performance right there
Also, at this stage we don't really know how good a win Joshua's was over Whyte as there's not really any other reference point for Whyte...so Takam vs Whyte would be an interesting match-up!
Amirhussain said:
lord trumpton said:
So if haye does get a shot at AJ - who's your money on?
If it happens Haye will be at least 37 and AJ will have more experience as he is learning all the time.
Haye for me. Despite the crappy last two opponents, we know his very dangerous and what he is capable of.If it happens Haye will be at least 37 and AJ will have more experience as he is learning all the time.
Previous discussion about the merits of Haye
Edited by Fittster on Monday 23 May 20:16
David Haye may pay the price for taking the boxing public for granted
Boxing is a dangerous game, and David Haye is not playing it very well. If he misses his shot at Anthony Joshua next year because of a second farcical comeback fight, he can blame no one but himself, because he is in charge of this last gasp of his otherwise impressive career.
The end of Haye’s career is turning out to be worse than the start of Audley Harrison’s, and that is saying something.
The former world heavyweight and cruiserweight champion did his reputation a lot of damage on Saturday night against an unspeakably poor opponent. And he had the cheek to ask 20,000 people to pay to watch it at the O2 Arena in Greenwich, where he has had some very good nights, when such a training exercise should have been down the bill in front of a few hundred diehards at York Hall 15 years ago.
Haye has had sparring sessions way better than this – including against Deontay Wilder, who might yet be his farewell gig.
But look at the Londoner’s career since 13 October 2011, the date he and his then trainer and manager Adam Booth swore blind would mark his retirement before he headed for Hollywood to become a movie star.
Three months before that mythical deadline, he lost the battle of the bruised toe against Wladimir Klitschko. It wasn’t looking good. He decided to carry on, though, and roused his career magnificently a year later at West Ham with a terrific stoppage of Dereck Chisora, who was still dangerous and gave Haye something to think about for some of the five rounds it lasted.
After that? Two aborted dates with Tyson Fury because of training injuries, then … nothing until these two clowns showed up. Boxing fans will put up with so much. But this is fairground stuff.
Haye is already suffering because of it. Eddie Hearn is now in a position where he can say publicly and without any argument that Haye is slipping back in the queue to make some money with Joshua, when such a fight looked locked in only a few months ago. All Haye had to do was stay legitimate.
If he’d had two quick knockouts against credible opponents – rather than guys from nowhere with obviously padded CVs, Mark de Mori in a round last January, and now Arnold Gjergiaj in two rounds – his stock at least would have been in decent shape.
If Shannon Briggs, for instance, had been his comeback fight and he had performed well, he would still have been in the picture. Briggs, although past his best, had some credibility after rebuilding his life and his career. As it is Briggs, who looked in better shape at 44 on Haye’s undercard than did the supposed star of the show, will be his next opponent.
If the American gets lucky – and he certainly was that in fighting a dreadful stiff for less than a round on Saturday night in Emilio Ezequiel Zarate – he could ruin the plot completely. It is not out of the question.
Haye might have been allowed one soft touch after nearly four years away, but not two in a row, and both billed as main events. It is a classic case of taking the public for granted. He remembered the good nights – and there were plenty of them – and figured the fans would roll up anyway, because they were so keen to see him back in the big time.
Well, sorry, but he is still in the small-time. He has damaged his brand and needs a spectacular performance against Briggs to repair it. I hope he does it. Haye is a likeable guy and, on his best nights, one of the most exciting heavyweights around.
But those who joked that these fights should have been on the Comedy Channel rather than on Dave got it right. Haye probably is laughing all the way to the bank, but there cannot have been too many customers leaving Greenwich on Saturday night who found it funny.
Haye’s hero is Muhammad Ali. He even named his son Cassius, giving him a neat rhyme to match Ali’s original moniker. But look at what Ali did after being out of the ring for about the same time as was Haye: he returned against the formidable Jerry Quarry (37-4-4 at the time) in October 1970, and stopped him in three rounds. Two months later, he came from behind to stop Oscar Bonavena (46-6-1) in the 15th and last round at Madison Square Garden in one of the toughest fights of his career.
Three months later, he returned to the Garden, shipping one of the best left hooks ever thrown in a world heavyweight title bout to lose a memorable points decision over 15 rounds against Joe Frazier in what was billed with every justification at the time as The Fight Of The Century.
Messrs De Mori and Gjergiaj? I don’t think so …
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2016/may/23...
Boxing is a dangerous game, and David Haye is not playing it very well. If he misses his shot at Anthony Joshua next year because of a second farcical comeback fight, he can blame no one but himself, because he is in charge of this last gasp of his otherwise impressive career.
The end of Haye’s career is turning out to be worse than the start of Audley Harrison’s, and that is saying something.
The former world heavyweight and cruiserweight champion did his reputation a lot of damage on Saturday night against an unspeakably poor opponent. And he had the cheek to ask 20,000 people to pay to watch it at the O2 Arena in Greenwich, where he has had some very good nights, when such a training exercise should have been down the bill in front of a few hundred diehards at York Hall 15 years ago.
Haye has had sparring sessions way better than this – including against Deontay Wilder, who might yet be his farewell gig.
But look at the Londoner’s career since 13 October 2011, the date he and his then trainer and manager Adam Booth swore blind would mark his retirement before he headed for Hollywood to become a movie star.
Three months before that mythical deadline, he lost the battle of the bruised toe against Wladimir Klitschko. It wasn’t looking good. He decided to carry on, though, and roused his career magnificently a year later at West Ham with a terrific stoppage of Dereck Chisora, who was still dangerous and gave Haye something to think about for some of the five rounds it lasted.
After that? Two aborted dates with Tyson Fury because of training injuries, then … nothing until these two clowns showed up. Boxing fans will put up with so much. But this is fairground stuff.
Haye is already suffering because of it. Eddie Hearn is now in a position where he can say publicly and without any argument that Haye is slipping back in the queue to make some money with Joshua, when such a fight looked locked in only a few months ago. All Haye had to do was stay legitimate.
If he’d had two quick knockouts against credible opponents – rather than guys from nowhere with obviously padded CVs, Mark de Mori in a round last January, and now Arnold Gjergiaj in two rounds – his stock at least would have been in decent shape.
If Shannon Briggs, for instance, had been his comeback fight and he had performed well, he would still have been in the picture. Briggs, although past his best, had some credibility after rebuilding his life and his career. As it is Briggs, who looked in better shape at 44 on Haye’s undercard than did the supposed star of the show, will be his next opponent.
If the American gets lucky – and he certainly was that in fighting a dreadful stiff for less than a round on Saturday night in Emilio Ezequiel Zarate – he could ruin the plot completely. It is not out of the question.
Haye might have been allowed one soft touch after nearly four years away, but not two in a row, and both billed as main events. It is a classic case of taking the public for granted. He remembered the good nights – and there were plenty of them – and figured the fans would roll up anyway, because they were so keen to see him back in the big time.
Well, sorry, but he is still in the small-time. He has damaged his brand and needs a spectacular performance against Briggs to repair it. I hope he does it. Haye is a likeable guy and, on his best nights, one of the most exciting heavyweights around.
But those who joked that these fights should have been on the Comedy Channel rather than on Dave got it right. Haye probably is laughing all the way to the bank, but there cannot have been too many customers leaving Greenwich on Saturday night who found it funny.
Haye’s hero is Muhammad Ali. He even named his son Cassius, giving him a neat rhyme to match Ali’s original moniker. But look at what Ali did after being out of the ring for about the same time as was Haye: he returned against the formidable Jerry Quarry (37-4-4 at the time) in October 1970, and stopped him in three rounds. Two months later, he came from behind to stop Oscar Bonavena (46-6-1) in the 15th and last round at Madison Square Garden in one of the toughest fights of his career.
Three months later, he returned to the Garden, shipping one of the best left hooks ever thrown in a world heavyweight title bout to lose a memorable points decision over 15 rounds against Joe Frazier in what was billed with every justification at the time as The Fight Of The Century.
Messrs De Mori and Gjergiaj? I don’t think so …
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2016/may/23...
^It's hard to argue about that but I don't think comparisons to Ali are ever fair or justified. He needed a couple of warm up fights to get back into it and prove his new training set up with Shane Mcguigan, his big mistake was selling them as big fights at the O2 and Dave's woeful TV coverage.
The major question with Haye yet to be answered is has he lost some of his speed and movement with the extra weight, we won't know until he faces someone who's actually prepared to hit him, but if you remember back to how skittish and quick he was against the likes of Klitshcko, Chisora and that Russian Giant guy and compare that to how he's gone about his business in the last two fights then physically he does look very different.
For me Briggs is a very tough fight for him, killer body puncher and even if he does recover his fast head movement Briggs is still going to land some very hurtful punches on Haye.
The major question with Haye yet to be answered is has he lost some of his speed and movement with the extra weight, we won't know until he faces someone who's actually prepared to hit him, but if you remember back to how skittish and quick he was against the likes of Klitshcko, Chisora and that Russian Giant guy and compare that to how he's gone about his business in the last two fights then physically he does look very different.
For me Briggs is a very tough fight for him, killer body puncher and even if he does recover his fast head movement Briggs is still going to land some very hurtful punches on Haye.
Yiliterate said:
I'd agree that of all Joshua's and Parker's respective opponents, Takam has the most impressive CV. That said, I think 'fantastic' is probably a pretty generous description of him; his best win to date has been a points victory against Tony Thompson (dangerous but probably not top-tier at this stage of his career) and has only ever won outside of France once.
Also, at this stage we don't really know how good a win Joshua's was over Whyte as there's not really any other reference point for Whyte...so Takam vs Whyte would be an interesting match-up!
ok,ok, ....fantastic is probably a bit of hyperbole!Also, at this stage we don't really know how good a win Joshua's was over Whyte as there's not really any other reference point for Whyte...so Takam vs Whyte would be an interesting match-up!
i had a slowish morning in work a few hours ago and rewatched the fight on youtube....i stand by my thoughts on parker...great jab, great combos....but also able to suck it up when he was f
ked, take a few and keep coming back.watch the below clip from 40 minutes...he was blowing hard after those great combos but came back strong. that fight was a bit of a gut check and he passed with flying colours.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9FnBFc0CZU
FredClogs said:
^It's hard to argue about that but I don't think comparisons to Ali are ever fair or justified. He needed a couple of warm up fights to get back into it and prove his new training set up with Shane Mcguigan, his big mistake was selling them as big fights at the O2 and Dave's woeful TV coverage.
The major question with Haye yet to be answered is has he lost some of his speed and movement with the extra weight, we won't know until he faces someone who's actually prepared to hit him, but if you remember back to how skittish and quick he was against the likes of Klitshcko, Chisora and that Russian Giant guy and compare that to how he's gone about his business in the last two fights then physically he does look very different.
For me Briggs is a very tough fight for him, killer body puncher and even if he does recover his fast head movement Briggs is still going to land some very hurtful punches on Haye.
To be honest, I thought it was a obvious and unimaginative article, written by someone who should (and almost certainly does) know better...The major question with Haye yet to be answered is has he lost some of his speed and movement with the extra weight, we won't know until he faces someone who's actually prepared to hit him, but if you remember back to how skittish and quick he was against the likes of Klitshcko, Chisora and that Russian Giant guy and compare that to how he's gone about his business in the last two fights then physically he does look very different.
For me Briggs is a very tough fight for him, killer body puncher and even if he does recover his fast head movement Briggs is still going to land some very hurtful punches on Haye.
I agree about the Ali comparison...their enforced absences were for fundamentally different reasons and therefore they returned to the ring under meaningfully different circumstances. I'd have given more credence to the point if he'd drawn the comparison with Vitali Klitschko coming back to fight Sam Peter, but clearly that wasn't as sensational as invoking the name of 'The Greatest' (and I daresay some of the intended audience of this piece may only have a vague idea of who Vitali Klitschko is).
Drawing parallels between the start of Audley Harrison's career and the latest chapter in Haye's career two fights in is also fatuous; come back and make the point if Haye is still fighting that level of opponent after half a dozen fights. It's also complete nonsense to imply that a potential fight with Joshua in 2017 has now been jeopardised by Haye dismantling a nobody in May 2016!!! Yes, Eddie Hearn made some noise about Haye not being on their radar, but seriously, if he wasn't on their radar he probably wouldn't be talking about him at all. A win against Shannon Briggs and another against a Bermane Stiverne level of opposition and what happened last weekend will be of zero consequence...
tuscaneer said:
Yiliterate said:
I'd agree that of all Joshua's and Parker's respective opponents, Takam has the most impressive CV. That said, I think 'fantastic' is probably a pretty generous description of him; his best win to date has been a points victory against Tony Thompson (dangerous but probably not top-tier at this stage of his career) and has only ever won outside of France once.
Also, at this stage we don't really know how good a win Joshua's was over Whyte as there's not really any other reference point for Whyte...so Takam vs Whyte would be an interesting match-up!
ok,ok, ....fantastic is probably a bit of hyperbole!Also, at this stage we don't really know how good a win Joshua's was over Whyte as there's not really any other reference point for Whyte...so Takam vs Whyte would be an interesting match-up!
i had a slowish morning in work a few hours ago and rewatched the fight on youtube....i stand by my thoughts on parker...great jab, great combos....but also able to suck it up when he was f
ked, take a few and keep coming back.watch the below clip from 40 minutes...he was blowing hard after those great combos but came back strong. that fight was a bit of a gut check and he passed with flying colours.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9FnBFc0CZU
Re: Whyte, and I hate to pick you up on this again after the Takam-'fantastic' point, but calling him a 'crude domestic level slugger' just doesn't match up to the reality of the situation. If you look down his record you'll see, apart from Joshua, he's only ever fought one other British fighter...the rest of his fights have been against overseas no-hopers, so where you plucked the word 'domestic' from, I'll never know!!!
Incidentally, Whyte has just signed a multi-fight deal with Matchroom...as has Eubank jr!
Edited by Yiliterate on Tuesday 24th May 12:06
I've just got around to watching the Parker vs Takam fight, I'm not sure any of the British heavyweight world champions or contenders have much to worry about (we really are being spoilt at the moment) he's a youngster and he'll get stronger and better but for me he's a way off living with Anthony Joshua and that low hand a la Groves and Haye allows for the strong fast double jabs and such but it always scares me as fighters tire that they get caught.
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