Cricket - England Vs South Africa Summer 2017
Discussion
toastyhamster said:
Worst case scenario, they stick with the same team for the West Indies, Jennings scores a hatful and they keep him for the ashes....
That's not the worst case.The worst case is they stick with him and his form continues as is. Then what...
Or am I due another parrot?
It's been a good test series for Moeen.
hornetrider said:
We're batting with half a side at the moment, the selectors need to pull their finger out and quick. Jennings is averaging 15 ffs!
That's double Malan's Cooks is only 33 for eight innings, Only Root and Stokes have above 40 which is a reasonable benchmark for a top six bat.
I am prepared to persist with an opener. but three should be the best batsman, sooner or later Root should go to three and probably Bairstow at four...
Day 5 insurance policy being dusted off....
Moeen's had a great series. I think I agree with Boyc's top 3 in this series - Moeen, Stokes and Bairstow (the latter two tied).
Anderson's been solid. Cook delivered when needed more or less. Root ups and downs, probably more ups on balance. Roland-Jones stays. Broad's been a bit meh, and probably more down than up. If that lot all play cohesively together then we have a strong side that could cause the Aussies some mischief.
What to do about Jennings, Westley and Malan....?
Moeen's had a great series. I think I agree with Boyc's top 3 in this series - Moeen, Stokes and Bairstow (the latter two tied).
Anderson's been solid. Cook delivered when needed more or less. Root ups and downs, probably more ups on balance. Roland-Jones stays. Broad's been a bit meh, and probably more down than up. If that lot all play cohesively together then we have a strong side that could cause the Aussies some mischief.
What to do about Jennings, Westley and Malan....?
Don't forget we've got Woakes to come back as yet. He's so solid with the bat that everyone could move up one spot. I think ultimately Root will have to take the #3 position, maybe against his wishes. An Ashes series away from home is no place for the faint-hearted. All we can hope is that a newbie impresses against the Windies.
I think this series should put to bed the prospect of 4 day tests. All matches have been one sided, this one no exception, and after little time lost to light or rain, it finished at 17:40 on the fourth day.
Ok can understand Michael Vaughan's argument for days of 100 overs as opposed to 90 overs. Personally think we should keep 5 days and players need to learn how to bat a rearguard action to try and save a game. Go to four days will be lots of drawn matches.
Back on this series, Moeen, well done, amazing achievements, record level runs and wickets achievements in an only 4 test series.
Westley deserves another chance
Jennings,
for certain.
Malan, very thin ice, probably same as Jennings.
England generally, did well against team rated no 2, but neither set fired on all cylinders.
Thought it was too early for Root to be captain, I was wrong, did well, and today he did well when Amla and du Plessis were rolling on, didn't panic, made some changes and broke through. Rooooooooooot!
Ok can understand Michael Vaughan's argument for days of 100 overs as opposed to 90 overs. Personally think we should keep 5 days and players need to learn how to bat a rearguard action to try and save a game. Go to four days will be lots of drawn matches.
Back on this series, Moeen, well done, amazing achievements, record level runs and wickets achievements in an only 4 test series.
Westley deserves another chance
Jennings,
for certain.Malan, very thin ice, probably same as Jennings.
England generally, did well against team rated no 2, but neither set fired on all cylinders.
Thought it was too early for Root to be captain, I was wrong, did well, and today he did well when Amla and du Plessis were rolling on, didn't panic, made some changes and broke through. Rooooooooooot!
^^^^^^^^^^
I pretty much agree with FiF. Westley showed some promise, and perhaps Malan should be given another chance, but after the Ashes. Surely there's only one opener with the skill set to take to HMP Australia, and that's Alex Hales. The last thing we need is another "rabbit in the headlights" like little Lyth, who failed spectacularly in the last Ashes, and so often provided the crims with an early morale-booster.
Moeen has been brilliant against a lacklustre South African batting lineup, and Toby Roland-Jones has looked good, but we've only got the West Indies between us and Australia, and they're not likely to expose any weaknesses in either our bowlers or batsmen.
Who, then, is already booked on the plane for the trip down under?
In no particular order:
Cook
?/Hales
Westley
Root
Stokes
Bairstow
Buttler
Moeen
Anderson
Broad
Roland-Jones
Woakes
Your further suggestions would be welcomed.
I pretty much agree with FiF. Westley showed some promise, and perhaps Malan should be given another chance, but after the Ashes. Surely there's only one opener with the skill set to take to HMP Australia, and that's Alex Hales. The last thing we need is another "rabbit in the headlights" like little Lyth, who failed spectacularly in the last Ashes, and so often provided the crims with an early morale-booster.
Moeen has been brilliant against a lacklustre South African batting lineup, and Toby Roland-Jones has looked good, but we've only got the West Indies between us and Australia, and they're not likely to expose any weaknesses in either our bowlers or batsmen.
Who, then, is already booked on the plane for the trip down under?
In no particular order:
Cook
?/Hales
Westley
Root
Stokes
Bairstow
Buttler
Moeen
Anderson
Broad
Roland-Jones
Woakes
Your further suggestions would be welcomed.
I've included Buttler because he is a very good fielder, and his inclusion in the batting lineup would be enough to make the Australians think very, very hard, and their bowling plans would be biased towards him. He's potentially lethal, more than capable of taking a game away from the opposition, and quickly.
I'm not sure that Trevor Baylis sees it that way, unfortunately.
I'm not sure that Trevor Baylis sees it that way, unfortunately.
Agree with Buttler, Hales, give him a shot against WIndies, his test averages are a little bit enhanced by the Sri Lanka tour last year, especially two good innings at Lord's, but exclude that and his averages against Saffers away and Pakistan in UK still better than Jennings.
One thing they have to work on is recognise that they will at some point against the crims be in a position where they have to bat to save a draw. Not being pessimistic, it's just cricket, they have to learn that talent, it's a weak point, bugger the, flashy shots, reverse sweeps, overhead tennis swats, just stick at that crease, grind the bowlers and fielders into the dirt. Even if you ultimately lose it's not a loss as some of them will be nearer an injury.
One thing they have to work on is recognise that they will at some point against the crims be in a position where they have to bat to save a draw. Not being pessimistic, it's just cricket, they have to learn that talent, it's a weak point, bugger the, flashy shots, reverse sweeps, overhead tennis swats, just stick at that crease, grind the bowlers and fielders into the dirt. Even if you ultimately lose it's not a loss as some of them will be nearer an injury.
Hales and Woakes in, Jennings and Malan out. Westley maybe. Firm decisions need making for the WI games.
Would mentioning Bell and Hameed get me laughed out of here?
They're going to need a few spares I would think.
I had not realised the Saffers were ranked no2. Says more about the ranking system than anything I suspect - they were pretty useless with the bat. Makes you wonder how on Earth we lost Trent Bridge....a bot on Root's captaincy (which went well otherwise - I like him a lot).
Would mentioning Bell and Hameed get me laughed out of here?
They're going to need a few spares I would think.
I had not realised the Saffers were ranked no2. Says more about the ranking system than anything I suspect - they were pretty useless with the bat. Makes you wonder how on Earth we lost Trent Bridge....a bot on Root's captaincy (which went well otherwise - I like him a lot).
Murph7355 said:
Hales and Woakes in, Jennings and Malan out. Westley maybe. Firm decisions need making for the WI games.
Would mentioning Bell and Hameed get me laughed out of here?
They're going to need a few spares I would think.
I had not realised the Saffers were ranked no2. Says more about the ranking system than anything I suspect - they were pretty useless with the bat. Makes you wonder how on Earth we lost Trent Bridge....a bot on Root's captaincy (which went well otherwise - I like him a lot).
SA Ranking still affected by AB Devilliers and Dale Steyn days. Saying Bell is worth taking on tour does indeed earn a chuckle, he is retired and has said he won't tour again. Would mentioning Bell and Hameed get me laughed out of here?
They're going to need a few spares I would think.
I had not realised the Saffers were ranked no2. Says more about the ranking system than anything I suspect - they were pretty useless with the bat. Makes you wonder how on Earth we lost Trent Bridge....a bot on Root's captaincy (which went well otherwise - I like him a lot).
Hales is worth another look, I suspect Ballance will tour and actually might be OK against the Aussies as the ball doesn't tend to swing and seam as much there.
Like I said I would stick with Jennings for now, takes time to learn.
Bowlers, Woakes, Wood, Jimmy, Broady, Ali, Stokes, Roland Jones, - probably a secondspinner.
Bats, Cook, Root , Hales, Jennings, Bairstow, Ballance, Stoneman, Westley
I think Jennings possibly has the makings of an opener, seems to have the temperament, but, and it's a big JLo sized but, he is deficient in certain areas of technique. Given that today every test team studies the opposition at an individual level and figures out customised strategies to take their wicket I don't think out in harsh light of international scrutiny is the place to do it. Take him away, work on his weaknesses, really work on them and he might have the makings.
Westley, he's been exposed so often to the very new ball and fresh bowlers due to very early failure of one or other of the openers he's been playing as an opener, almost.
Westley, he's been exposed so often to the very new ball and fresh bowlers due to very early failure of one or other of the openers he's been playing as an opener, almost.
Gargamel said:
Bowlers, Woakes, Wood, Jimmy, Broady, Ali, Stokes, Roland Jones, - probably a secondspinner.
Bats, Cook, Root , Hales, Jennings, Bairstow, Ballance, Stoneman, Westley
Rashid has to go - leg spinners very handy in Aus. Need plenty of seamers as i suspect we'll get a few injuries. Leach from Somerset an outside pick as a third spinner.Bats, Cook, Root , Hales, Jennings, Bairstow, Ballance, Stoneman, Westley
Hales scored 200 yesterday but batted at 5! May be a sign that England aren't considering him as an opener. Maybe a potential middle order bat though?
Need a second keeper, Buttler maybe although not sure his batting has survived all the T20 mayhem
Ballance & Jennings? No thanks - "go back and work on your technique boys". I would look for a properly talented youngster to take to Aus - blooding him for the next tour. Not sure who though. Westley worries me with his complete lack of offside shots, but maybe he can fix that.
Stoneman should come in for WI & see if he's got that test match presence
team for 1st test at the Gabba
Cook
Stoneman?
Root
Hales
Stokes
Bairstow
Mooen
Woakes
Rashid
Broad
Anderson
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