The Tennis Thread

[chippy17]

ascayman said:

chippy17 said:

and what do the rumours say about what is in them? what ped drug can you take through your eyes?

Well clearly if you were going to dope, you'd do it courtside....in front of the punters....in view of the cameras.....which beam the pictures to millions

Honestly

I was trying to be sarcy and disingenuous, although they do say sometimes the best place to hide is in plain sight

[chippy17]

Robbo66 said:

I play 1hbh and while it looks superb when it works, I wish I learnt 2hbh form the start. You can play the ball far closer to you, not so far out in front and has a better return of serve....just a safer option.

I find it as difficult on slow courts as the kick serve grips more and bounces even higher to my 1hbh.
Stan and Gasquet have glorious 1hbh, but the best 2hbh players can simply punch or pop it back far easier off a fast court.

Rumours about EPO on circuit. Been about for a while, but the 'elephant in the room' is becoming too big to ignore.

so do I as I am old and a product of the old school, and I have always struggled with reliability of that stroke, slice no problem

whilst you are right it is a much more beautiful stroke to look at the question is which is better most would say 2hbh

when hit properly the 1hbh can be devastating tool that I think is still relevant in todays game

match of the tourny: Stan vs Djoker

[chippy17]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I guess just a bad match up; 2 pushers on one court

[chippy17]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I thought the wink might tell you I was teasing, you cannot really call any player at this level a pusher

i have no doubt in my mind that Murray has way better touch than Djoker and will show it on faster courts but cannot agree that he has a more interesting/touch game than Fed

[chippy17]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

sorry misunderstood, yes fair comment, see Olympic final, but as we all know he can easily fall into defensive Murray

although you are right re Fed and attack, he can also draw opponents in in the same way as Murray does, and like Murray Fed loves a target, esp using his short slice bh. In Fed's game you can also see subtle shifts in his strategy

I will add Murrays forehand has improved massively over the last 18 months and really has gone from a bit of a liability into a proper weapon

[J98]

chippy17 said:

Robbo66 said:

I play 1hbh and while it looks superb when it works, I wish I learnt 2hbh form the start. You can play the ball far closer to you, not so far out in front and has a better return of serve....just a safer option.

I find it as difficult on slow courts as the kick serve grips more and bounces even higher to my 1hbh.
Stan and Gasquet have glorious 1hbh, but the best 2hbh players can simply punch or pop it back far easier off a fast court.

so do I as I am old and a product of the old school, and I have always struggled with reliability of that stroke, slice no problem

whilst you are right it is a much more beautiful stroke to look at the question is which is better most would say 2hbh

when hit properly the 1hbh can be devastating tool that I think is still relevant in todays game

I learnt the two hander when younger, then broke my left arm, hitting a two hander jars my arm so switched to a one hander, best switch I ever made.
I agree with about the return of serve, but that forced me to develop a decent slice, also I have a slightly unconventional grip so high balls don't fuss me that much, it's the low ones I don't like...
Agree with the two hander being easier to punch back, but if you get time on the ball on a fast court the one handed stroke has more access to power making it just as dangerous.

[chippy17]

not the best quality vid but here are two guys with backhands up there at the top of the best ever list, a 1hbh and a 2hbh:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cl3Pm4qFFhs

[Robbo66]

This is just mesmerizing...simple eh...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeZjBFyDnSo&lis...

[chippy17]

Robbo66 said:

This is just mesmerizing...simple eh...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeZjBFyDnSo&lis...

my personal fave talking about mesmerising, i love the way it is all very slow and relaxed to begin with and slowly but surely it gets faster and faster:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTjBXVQyiwg

[amare32]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Not strictly true. I have a 2HDH but one of my strengths is a single handed slice which I deploy lots on clay and artificial grass. I torn a tendon in my left wrist lifting weights so that had affected my 2HBH (6 months to recover) so developed a single handed slice which can be a great weapon/defensive shot.

I have tried to hit a BH single handed, while I have confidence to drive a BH single handed (but also shank loads!), I go back to my trusted 2HBH in a match and normal hits. Would love to have a BH like Wawrinka or Gasquet - one of the most beautiful shots in the game but takes brilliant footwork and preparation to hit through properly.

[Robbo66]

Apologies but no. Not IMO. The slice back hand shot is basically a 'cop out'.

It's arrives when the player has not had time to move his feet properly, normally off a kick shoulder high serve, and rarely if ever wins a point.

It's a positional shot, allowing time to recover. Rarely used to slice to the corners and rush the net as float time is too great.

9/10 in matches, I will kick to the ad court out wide when serving if the player has a SBH, as the return will be weak, or sliced. Once they have done this 3 to 4 times, it's obvious they don't have the confidence or ability to play a drive 1hbh, which is one of the hardest strokes to master.
As the lift/push 2hbh is, the 1hbh slice is faily easy to return deep to the corner and attack from.

I still haven't mastered it, and never will totally, and remain the only member of our team to play a shbh....

As when I was playing with Snauwert racquets back in the day, sbh was king and all that was taught. Now, the polar opposite. 2hbh is far easier to master and is more effective for driving the ball.

I'm too vain to go down that line....1hbh remains the most beautiful shot in tennis.

[Ten Four]

Tomic is a right but this details how stupid our speeding laws are

http://www.theage.com.au/sport/tennis/bernard-tomi...

[J98]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

What if Federer had Wawrinka's backhand or Gasquet's, Almagro's, Youhzney's, Haas'... etc, just cause his personally isn't as good as other players two handers, it doesn't mean a one hander is automatically worse.

[FourWheelDrift]

There is nothing wrong with two handed backhands Vivian McGrath and double Aus Open winner John Bromwich in the 1930s weren't banned for it and later big names like Jimmy Connors, Björn Borg , Mats Wilander, Andre Agassi, Jim Courier, Sergi Bruguera, Marat Safin, Novak Djokovic, Andy Murray, Rafael Nadal, David Nalbandian, Nikolay Davydenko, Lleyton Hewitt, Gilles Simon and Jo-Wilfried Tsonga have all carried on that tradition. You can hit a ball anyway you like it's not illegal and it's not a disgrace, it's tennis.

Ps. McGrath and Bromwich also played two handed forehands too.

Edited by FourWheelDrift on Tuesday 29th January 22:14

[chippy17]

apart from my shocking display on indoor carpet (which i hate even though fast surfaces suit my game more, almost twisted my ankle several times awful stuff) last night both technically and mentally, I still managed a couple of sublime dtl 1hbh winners this is the way i see it:


1 hander is better for:
a) Low balls
b) More topspin
c) Little bit extra reach
d) More pace than 2 hander
e) more natural slice

2 hander is better for:
a) High balls
b) Return of serve
c) Redirecting hard shots
d) Scooping balls up that land near the feet

the reason 2hbh have become more prevelant is imo to do with pace of courts as they suit slower courts much better, it winds me up massively that coaches now push all juniors to 2hbh, my 9yr struggles with her backhand and I think she has a more natural 1hbh but when i tell her to try it she says her coach forbids it, which is ridiculous

as for bh slice being a cop out shot well I guess you are not doing it correctly...

[chippy17]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Laver
Rosewall
Rafter
Muster
Becker
Kuerten
Edberg
Lendl
Sampras
Federer

to name but a few

oh I will also add the tiny lady known as Henin

[chippy17]

Ten Four said:

Tomic is a right but this details how stupid our speeding laws are

http://www.theage.com.au/sport/tennis/bernard-tomi...

Tomic The Tank Engine, what a tosser, also pretty sure the motor in question is an M3 GTS but the press have to big it up and call it a Ferrari

[JNW1]

chippy17 said:

Laver
Rosewall
Rafter
Muster
Becker
Kuerten
Edberg
Lendl
Sampras
Federer

to name but a few

oh I will also add the tiny lady known as Henin

Can't believe you missed JP McEnroe out of that shortlist! I guess the argument might be that some of those players above didn't have a backhand that was a good offensive weapon but I agree with your sentiment; Djokovic and Murray both have two-handers that are offensive weapons but for the most part I think the double handed backhand is just different from the single-hander as opposed to better.

On your issue with carpet courts, are you wearing indoor shoes with the smooth soles? Outdoor shoes do tend to grip more than you'd like on occasion and that's when twisted ankles happen; I've done it once on our carpet courts (wearing a brand new pair of outdoor shoes!) but since swapping to indoor shoes I've not had a problem. I know some indoor shoes can be like playing in clogs but it may be worth investing in a decent pair if you play a lot on carpet?

[chippy17]

JNW1 said:

chippy17 said:

Laver
Rosewall
Rafter
Muster
Becker
Kuerten
Edberg
Lendl
Sampras
Federer

to name but a few

oh I will also add the tiny lady known as Henin

Can't believe you missed JP McEnroe out of that shortlist! I guess the argument might be that some of those players above didn't have a backhand that was a good offensive weapon but I agree with your sentiment; Djokovic and Murray both have two-handers that are offensive weapons but for the most part I think the double handed backhand is just different from the single-hander as opposed to better.

On your issue with carpet courts, are you wearing indoor shoes with the smooth soles? Outdoor shoes do tend to grip more than you'd like on occasion and that's when twisted ankles happen; I've done it once on our carpet courts (wearing a brand new pair of outdoor shoes!) but since swapping to indoor shoes I've not had a problem. I know some indoor shoes can be like playing in clogs but it may be worth investing in a decent pair if you play a lot on carpet?

imo McEnroe bh was not an offensive weapon but correct me if you disagree, I think the poeple named in that list have a 1hbh that can be classed a a proper weapon, yes even Fed, posssible exception Laver, one has to also take out of the equation player with awesome fhs that may have given the viewer the thought that their 1hbh was a not, such as Sampras and Lendl

doh! I am such an idiot, of course wearing the wrong shoes, i hardly ever play on it so cannot justify buying indoor shoes but that is the reason you are quite right, thanks

[JNW1]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

So out of interest who do you think has/had a two-handed backhand that counts as a distinct weapon? I can see that Djokovic and Murray have and I'd say Agassi and perhaps Courier had as well; however, a lot of the other two handers of the last 20 years have had strokes that are/were reliable but not much else IMO.