The PH Gun Cabinet - Shooting Matters
Discussion
Jezzerh said:
A new member of the family this week. I bought my first gun in August when I took up clay shooting. It’s an ATA Sporter, a Turkish 686 clone pretty much. Dark wood and all Matt black action and barrels. No frills at all. Perfectly decent gun and shoots well enough but I always hankered after a Beretta after trying a couple out.
Bought a 690 Field III as my second gun. It’s gorgeous. Feels so svelte and well made compared to the agricultural ATA. Just need the bloody snow and wind to go away so I can go and shoot it!
That looks great.Bought a 690 Field III as my second gun. It’s gorgeous. Feels so svelte and well made compared to the agricultural ATA. Just need the bloody snow and wind to go away so I can go and shoot it!
Edited by Jezzerh on Sunday 18th March 19:56
Edited by Jezzerh on Sunday 18th March 19:56
I'm in similar predicament, I'm just starting out and I'll currently using club guns. I was lusting after a (probably used) 690 Black but as I'm starting out, the new price of the ATA (£600) is very tempting.
The club has both, so I need some back to back testing.
Anybody have experience with old, used 22LR rifles?
I'm thinking of selling one of my 22s and getting an ERMA 22LR M1 carbine - it's a copy of the .30 M1 carbine. Used in Germany as a training rifle. They stopped making them in the 1990s, so it will be at least 25 years old and maybe up to 50 years old. Also being a military training rifle, it could have had bucket loads of rounds through it.
OTOH I like the look of it
I'm thinking of selling one of my 22s and getting an ERMA 22LR M1 carbine - it's a copy of the .30 M1 carbine. Used in Germany as a training rifle. They stopped making them in the 1990s, so it will be at least 25 years old and maybe up to 50 years old. Also being a military training rifle, it could have had bucket loads of rounds through it.
OTOH I like the look of it
creampuff said:
Anybody have experience with old, used 22LR rifles?
I'm thinking of selling one of my 22s and getting an ERMA 22LR M1 carbine - it's a copy of the .30 M1 carbine. Used in Germany as a training rifle. They stopped making them in the 1990s, so it will be at least 25 years old and maybe up to 50 years old. Also being a military training rifle, it could have had bucket loads of rounds through it.
OTOH I like the look of it
No, but after seeing what ITL have done with one of them at the Shooting Show this year, I wish I'd gone that route instead of the StG.44.I'm thinking of selling one of my 22s and getting an ERMA 22LR M1 carbine - it's a copy of the .30 M1 carbine. Used in Germany as a training rifle. They stopped making them in the 1990s, so it will be at least 25 years old and maybe up to 50 years old. Also being a military training rifle, it could have had bucket loads of rounds through it.
OTOH I like the look of it
phib said:
I have a couple of guns but my fave is a beretta 486 parallelo 20g, always quite fancied a pair ( for no real good reason!)
I probably won’t ever shoot with anything different in my lifetime.
Looked into it with beretta but it would cost a lot to sell mine and get a factory or matched pair.
However a 2nd hand identical gun has come up for sale on gun trader, it’s same length, pistol grip and beaver tail. Regarding serial number It has the the same prefix and it’s exactly 10 less in serial number.
It won’t ever be a factory pair or matched pair but I guess it would be a composed pair.
Can’t decide if it’s worth buying or just a daft idea and I should buy a real pair !!
Views ?
Phib
My view would be sell or p/x the single gun and get a True factory (numbered) pair if that's what's you hanker after. Similar guns and/or composed pairs in reality do not contribute anything to future resale and however close serial numbers are are they are still 'just' 2 guns.I probably won’t ever shoot with anything different in my lifetime.
Looked into it with beretta but it would cost a lot to sell mine and get a factory or matched pair.
However a 2nd hand identical gun has come up for sale on gun trader, it’s same length, pistol grip and beaver tail. Regarding serial number It has the the same prefix and it’s exactly 10 less in serial number.
It won’t ever be a factory pair or matched pair but I guess it would be a composed pair.
Can’t decide if it’s worth buying or just a daft idea and I should buy a real pair !!
Views ?
Phib
A true factory pair of 486 20bores would be a rare, very lovely and sought after! You should be able to spec you own combination to a degree too.
Just my 2p
Edited by tw_uk on Tuesday 20th March 19:57
aeropilot said:
No, but after seeing what ITL have done with one of them at the Shooting Show this year, I wish I'd gone that route instead of the StG.44.
Did you like the look of the ITL guns? Most of the ones which come up for sale seem to be via ITL. He must have got a job lot from somewhere. tw_uk said:
A true factory pair of 486 20bores would be a rare, very lovely and sought after! You should be able to spec you own combination to a degree too.
Just my 2p
Just out of curiosity, what is the appeal of consequitive serial numbered shotguns?Just my 2p
Edited by tw_uk on Tuesday 20th March 19:57
Edited by creampuff on Tuesday 20th March 22:46
creampuff said:
Just out of curiosity, what is the appeal of consequitive serial numbered shotguns?
From a time when in the game shooting world where double gunning and loading was more common/prevalent. Still occurs of course but that where the demand for paired guns is, also of course because they are often just nice possessions.Edited by creampuff on Tuesday 20th March 22:46
As for serial numbers, numbering of the guns etc.. the appeal I guess is that they were/manufactured as a pair in origin meaning originality, providence and residuals are the strongest opposed to two like-guns composed. They should balance, handle, weigh the same etc.
creampuff said:
Anybody have experience with old, used 22LR rifles?
I'm thinking of selling one of my 22s and getting an ERMA 22LR M1 carbine - it's a copy of the .30 M1 carbine. Used in Germany as a training rifle. They stopped making them in the 1990s, so it will be at least 25 years old and maybe up to 50 years old. Also being a military training rifle, it could have had bucket loads of rounds through it.
OTOH I like the look of it
There are quite a few of them in my neck of the woods, although i don't have one personally. They seem relatively accurate (at 50m anyway) and very reliable, The price of them varies quite a bit here in France from about 250 euros to 500. I suppose the price is determined by how much action it has seen but if you are going to see the gun and handle it before you buy you should get an idea of what its like. I'm thinking of selling one of my 22s and getting an ERMA 22LR M1 carbine - it's a copy of the .30 M1 carbine. Used in Germany as a training rifle. They stopped making them in the 1990s, so it will be at least 25 years old and maybe up to 50 years old. Also being a military training rifle, it could have had bucket loads of rounds through it.
OTOH I like the look of it
creampuff said:
aeropilot said:
No, but after seeing what ITL have done with one of them at the Shooting Show this year, I wish I'd gone that route instead of the StG.44.
Did you like the look of the ITL guns? Most of the ones which come up for sale seem to be via ITL. He must have got a job lot from somewhere. 
tw_uk said:
As for serial numbers, numbering of the guns etc.. the appeal I guess is that they were/manufactured as a pair in origin meaning originality, providence and residuals are the strongest opposed to two like-guns composed. They should balance, handle, weigh the same etc.
Does this apply only to hand made shotguns? If you were to just buy a mass produced gun, then consecutive numbered guns would have the same fabrication tolerances and guns 100 units apart. creampuff said:
Anybody have experience with old, used 22LR rifles?
I'm thinking of selling one of my 22s and getting an ERMA 22LR M1 carbine - it's a copy of the .30 M1 carbine. Used in Germany as a training rifle. They stopped making them in the 1990s, so it will be at least 25 years old and maybe up to 50 years old. Also being a military training rifle, it could have had bucket loads of rounds through it.
OTOH I like the look of it
Mate of mine had one. Could never find any ammo that would run it. Mini mags, standards, subs, nothing. Ended up practically giving it away. More jams than Robertson’s and dangerous light strikes IIRC. Look nice, don’t work. I'm thinking of selling one of my 22s and getting an ERMA 22LR M1 carbine - it's a copy of the .30 M1 carbine. Used in Germany as a training rifle. They stopped making them in the 1990s, so it will be at least 25 years old and maybe up to 50 years old. Also being a military training rifle, it could have had bucket loads of rounds through it.
OTOH I like the look of it
Also seem to recall he was finally told not to run high velocity stuff as it could crack something?
Wouldn’t touch one myself. Can’t beat a Ruger stainless in a hogue overmoulded green stock.
Edited by dfen5 on Wednesday 21st March 22:37
Hoppum said:
Picked up my new rifle yesterday 
Wow Straight pull AK-47? red_slr said:
Incoming! Got a new rifle inbound in the next few days. Hoping to collect on Saturday if it arrives in time.
Its a bit special for those who are into this kind of thing so will post a pic when I get it.
You have to at least give a hint what it is!!Its a bit special for those who are into this kind of thing so will post a pic when I get it.
dfen5 said:
Mate of mine had one. Could never find any ammo that would run it. Mini mags, standards, subs, nothing. Ended up practically giving it away. More jams than Robertson’s and dangerous light strikes IIRC. Look nice, don’t work.
Also seem to recall he was finally told not to run high velocity stuff as it could crack something?
Mmmm. I'm still feeling the love, if only for the looks. Maybe I can go to ITL Shooting as he seems to have several and just say I'm wary of a 30 year old gun, can I borrow it for a day to make sure it works. Also seem to recall he was finally told not to run high velocity stuff as it could crack something?
creampuff said:
dfen5 said:
Mate of mine had one. Could never find any ammo that would run it. Mini mags, standards, subs, nothing. Ended up practically giving it away. More jams than Robertson’s and dangerous light strikes IIRC. Look nice, don’t work.
Also seem to recall he was finally told not to run high velocity stuff as it could crack something?
Mmmm. I'm still feeling the love, if only for the looks. Maybe I can go to ITL Shooting as he seems to have several and just say I'm wary of a 30 year old gun, can I borrow it for a day to make sure it works. Also seem to recall he was finally told not to run high velocity stuff as it could crack something?
Although, he trades from home and is only about a 30min drive from Bisley, so you may still be able to arrange something with him to meet him there, book a lane on Bay A at Melville for 30mins...??
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