The PH Gun Cabinet - Shooting Matters
Discussion
We don't have foxes to shoot but of the small centrefires I'd suggest 223, or maybe 204 if you don't need the extra versatility of heavier bullet options - here in NZ 223 is used pretty commonly for goats, wallabies and deer (especially smaller varieties like fallow) as well as long range rabbits etc, but IIRC not allowed for deer in the UK?
22-250 also a decent option, more speed than 223 (with a bigger bang and shorter barrel life) but most have slow twist rate barrels which limits you to lighter bullets (around 50gr is common). Not an issue for the distances you mention but starts to lose out on longer range ballistics if you get into that. 204 is lighter bullets again but gives you similar velocity with less noise.
222 seems pointless to me unless you want one for historical nostalgia, 223 will basically do everything better with a much wider range of ammo available (often cheaper ammo too).
22-250 also a decent option, more speed than 223 (with a bigger bang and shorter barrel life) but most have slow twist rate barrels which limits you to lighter bullets (around 50gr is common). Not an issue for the distances you mention but starts to lose out on longer range ballistics if you get into that. 204 is lighter bullets again but gives you similar velocity with less noise.
222 seems pointless to me unless you want one for historical nostalgia, 223 will basically do everything better with a much wider range of ammo available (often cheaper ammo too).
Edited by GravelBen on Monday 15th October 01:10
Some very interesting info thanks. I need to chat with the local force about what the land is actually passed for or perhaps chat about open ticket also. Last time I asked they suggested asking at renewal time and with supporting evidence (letters from friendly landowner) would assist.
My local decent gunshop where I usually buy ammo have the following new rifles in centrefire calibres available, if looking at 22-250 or similar what are classed as good rifles in these makes guys? I've been used to shooting a cz455 with modified trigger in .22 rimfire and a very nice weirauch hw60j with a proper match trigger in .17hmr.
I do like a proper trigger but no experience of savage/tikka/wetherby manufacturers tbh. Luckily Kirklees guns also stock wide ranges of ammo generally for all these below
I do like a proper trigger but no experience of savage/tikka/wetherby manufacturers tbh. Luckily Kirklees guns also stock wide ranges of ammo generally for all these below
Would be worth 2 mins to drop Brian Fox an email. He is local ish to you and might have something and his prices are usually very good.
Ignore his stock list its about 40 years out of date..
http://foxfirearmsuk.com/
Ignore his stock list its about 40 years out of date..
http://foxfirearmsuk.com/
First thing on recommendations: guns (like cars) are very subjective and different ones fit different people, so its important to handle the options yourself before deciding what you like best instead of buying based on other peoples opinions (including mine 
).
It will also depend on what style of shooting you do - for example light rifles are nicer to carry long distances deerstalking etc but can be more difficult to fire accurately (and punishing of poor technique), heavier ones vice versa. Larger magazine capacity is handy for targets or pest control style shooting, but some of them stick out uncomfortably right at the rifles balance point where you want to carry it. And various other pros and cons to balance up what you want from a rifle.
So that out of the way, here are some thoughts on rifles from that list (in no particular order, just as I think of them and then look at the list again):
I like Savages (and own a few) but would personally skip the axis/edge which are their budget models. My Savage Classic 223 shoots like a dream (3 shots into one jagged hole at 100m and makes it feel easy), nice smooth action, one of the best factory triggers around, 3-stage tang safety is a nice feature too. If I was buying a new centrefire now the Savage Lightweight Hunter would be about the top of my list.
CZ 527 - very nice rifles, quick throw micro action and handle well. Trigger not as nice as the Savage (though the set trigger is decent), a gunsmith can probably make the trigger lighter and crisper for not much cost if you don't like it.
Tikka T3 - accurate, practical, very popular hunting rifles here. But not very interesting if that matters to you, especially in synthetic form. IIRC they only make one action size, so their 223 is a long action length with a bolt stop and magazine spacer - some people don't like that. Some people make a big deal about their accuracy guarantee, but all it really guarantees is similar accuracy to most other modern rifles.
Remington 700 - well proven design with a truckload of aftermarket parts and knowledge out there for tinkering, quality control seems to have gone downhill over the years though so the older ones are more desirable.
Marlin XS7, Ruger American - can feel a bit cheaply built but the important bits are about as accurate and reliable as anything else, good value on a limited budget. Savage Axis probably in this category too.
Howa 1500 - solid action (IIRC a Sako design originally) and accurate but quite heavy compared to most of its competitors. Some of them have a rubberised hogue stock which seems like a good idea until you realise how flexible the fore-end is, doesn't inspire confidence shooting off a rest or bipod. Howa action also sold as the Weatherby Vanguard.
Ruger M77 - I have the 'hawkeye' version in 308, nice looking and handling rifle. Not the same reputation for consistent accuracy as Savage/Tikka/Howa but they can shoot well (mine groups well with the right load but a bit fussy). I find the action a bit clunky feeling compared to Savage, and it rusts much more easily if I don't oil it often enough.
I would say overall that what you get for the extra cost with more expensive rifles isn't generally better accuracy or performance, its more in the subjective things - fit and finish, nicer feel, perceived quality etc. So its worth weighing up how much that matters to you as well.
). It will also depend on what style of shooting you do - for example light rifles are nicer to carry long distances deerstalking etc but can be more difficult to fire accurately (and punishing of poor technique), heavier ones vice versa. Larger magazine capacity is handy for targets or pest control style shooting, but some of them stick out uncomfortably right at the rifles balance point where you want to carry it. And various other pros and cons to balance up what you want from a rifle.
So that out of the way, here are some thoughts on rifles from that list (in no particular order, just as I think of them and then look at the list again):
I like Savages (and own a few) but would personally skip the axis/edge which are their budget models. My Savage Classic 223 shoots like a dream (3 shots into one jagged hole at 100m and makes it feel easy), nice smooth action, one of the best factory triggers around, 3-stage tang safety is a nice feature too. If I was buying a new centrefire now the Savage Lightweight Hunter would be about the top of my list.
CZ 527 - very nice rifles, quick throw micro action and handle well. Trigger not as nice as the Savage (though the set trigger is decent), a gunsmith can probably make the trigger lighter and crisper for not much cost if you don't like it.
Tikka T3 - accurate, practical, very popular hunting rifles here. But not very interesting if that matters to you, especially in synthetic form. IIRC they only make one action size, so their 223 is a long action length with a bolt stop and magazine spacer - some people don't like that. Some people make a big deal about their accuracy guarantee, but all it really guarantees is similar accuracy to most other modern rifles.
Remington 700 - well proven design with a truckload of aftermarket parts and knowledge out there for tinkering, quality control seems to have gone downhill over the years though so the older ones are more desirable.
Marlin XS7, Ruger American - can feel a bit cheaply built but the important bits are about as accurate and reliable as anything else, good value on a limited budget. Savage Axis probably in this category too.
Howa 1500 - solid action (IIRC a Sako design originally) and accurate but quite heavy compared to most of its competitors. Some of them have a rubberised hogue stock which seems like a good idea until you realise how flexible the fore-end is, doesn't inspire confidence shooting off a rest or bipod. Howa action also sold as the Weatherby Vanguard.
Ruger M77 - I have the 'hawkeye' version in 308, nice looking and handling rifle. Not the same reputation for consistent accuracy as Savage/Tikka/Howa but they can shoot well (mine groups well with the right load but a bit fussy). I find the action a bit clunky feeling compared to Savage, and it rusts much more easily if I don't oil it often enough.
I would say overall that what you get for the extra cost with more expensive rifles isn't generally better accuracy or performance, its more in the subjective things - fit and finish, nicer feel, perceived quality etc. So its worth weighing up how much that matters to you as well.
Edited by GravelBen on Monday 15th October 12:08
Thanks for that it's a fair summary. I kn9w it will be a bit subjective picking one if I go that way. My cz 455 is a thumbhole stock with 16" barrel and very nice apart from a fairly basic trigger. I do like it's ten shot mag and it's very accurate. The HW60j is a fab rifle but only 4 shot magazine which is frustrating at times.
Tend to shoot either prone off a bipod or off sticks walking my golf courses. Lamping we shoot from a 4x4 off a rest so no major weight worries.
Tend to shoot either prone off a bipod or off sticks walking my golf courses. Lamping we shoot from a 4x4 off a rest so no major weight worries.
Hi Folks,
I am looking to get back into shooting. Recently had a few goes at my local club and did ok on the clays. It really stirred up some fond memories. I dont have a licence yet as when I previously shot, I was a teenager and it was all done with my Dad on private land.
I have the form for my licence and am looking around my house for cabinet placement. To be honest, I am struggling a bit and could use some advice.
Can I put the cabinet in my garage? My garage isn't actually accessible to someone walking from the road to my front door? The garage is round the back of the house, behind high gates and its not used for storing cars.
If not and I do need to put it in the house. My house is over 300 years old and doesn't have many brick bits. Its mostly timber framed. Is that a problem for securing the cabinet in terms of passing the inspection?
The local club have given me the number of our local firearms officer, so I do intend on asking their advice too, but I thought it worth asking the collective first.
Thanks
Andy
I am looking to get back into shooting. Recently had a few goes at my local club and did ok on the clays. It really stirred up some fond memories. I dont have a licence yet as when I previously shot, I was a teenager and it was all done with my Dad on private land.
I have the form for my licence and am looking around my house for cabinet placement. To be honest, I am struggling a bit and could use some advice.
Can I put the cabinet in my garage? My garage isn't actually accessible to someone walking from the road to my front door? The garage is round the back of the house, behind high gates and its not used for storing cars.
If not and I do need to put it in the house. My house is over 300 years old and doesn't have many brick bits. Its mostly timber framed. Is that a problem for securing the cabinet in terms of passing the inspection?
The local club have given me the number of our local firearms officer, so I do intend on asking their advice too, but I thought it worth asking the collective first.
Thanks
Andy
Generally speaking, no garages or outbuildings. If you do get permission for garage / outbuilding its likely to need similar security to a gun room.
If its section 2 firearms (shotguns) you might be able to get away without a cabinet but local force will advise. They might allow clamps for example. You might be ok with 1 or even 2 like that but if you want a few shotguns (everyone does in the end!) then you are going to need a safe really. HTH.
If its section 2 firearms (shotguns) you might be able to get away without a cabinet but local force will advise. They might allow clamps for example. You might be ok with 1 or even 2 like that but if you want a few shotguns (everyone does in the end!) then you are going to need a safe really. HTH.
Cabinet in garage - if it is detached from your house, you are very likely to be told no. Home Office guidelines state a safe should not be a garage, shed, or outbuildings, except in certain circumstances, and be highly secure.
Do you have a solid floor you can bolt it to? One of my friends had a safe bolted to the wood floor of his loft and that was signed off, but it you FEO's call on what he sign off, so have a discussion with him and see what advice and options he gives you.
Do you have a solid floor you can bolt it to? One of my friends had a safe bolted to the wood floor of his loft and that was signed off, but it you FEO's call on what he sign off, so have a discussion with him and see what advice and options he gives you.
Many thanks for your advice.
Possibly the best place for me is in the boot room at the back of the house. Whilst this is the room with our back door and it would be going on an outside wall. This room has solid concrete floors and as such would give the cabinet a very secure fixing. The garage is made from soft reds, which is why I was thinking that this was a good choice originally.
Additionally, my wife is not yet fully on board with guns in the house.
Possibly the best place for me is in the boot room at the back of the house. Whilst this is the room with our back door and it would be going on an outside wall. This room has solid concrete floors and as such would give the cabinet a very secure fixing. The garage is made from soft reds, which is why I was thinking that this was a good choice originally.
Additionally, my wife is not yet fully on board with guns in the house.
andyb28 said:
Many thanks for your advice.
Possibly the best place for me is in the boot room at the back of the house. Whilst this is the room with our back door and it would be going on an outside wall. This room has solid concrete floors and as such would give the cabinet a very secure fixing. The garage is made from soft reds, which is why I was thinking that this was a good choice originally.
Additionally, my wife is not yet fully on board with guns in the house.
You might need extra security for that back door, but otherwise this sounds like the only option. You could always look to adding some sticky back plastic etc to the cabinet to 'disguise' it's purpose.Possibly the best place for me is in the boot room at the back of the house. Whilst this is the room with our back door and it would be going on an outside wall. This room has solid concrete floors and as such would give the cabinet a very secure fixing. The garage is made from soft reds, which is why I was thinking that this was a good choice originally.
Additionally, my wife is not yet fully on board with guns in the house.
My mate had the same issue with his missus, and was told to take his missus with him to left her have a go........she's now more into than he is (and better at it
)aeropilot said:
My mate had the same issue with his missus, and was told to take his missus with him to left her have a go........she's now more into than he is (and better at it )
I keep trying to get my wife to have a go but she isn't interested, nor is my son, my daughter may have a go one day, (she used to come pigeon bashing when she was younger with my old .410, now she is vegan it is unlikely, but cardboard should be fine!))The FEO chap was really helpful with me and gave me a few ideas, will probably pop it under the stairs horizontally if it won't stand up.
Any suggestions on a first gun?
I have a lesson on 2nd Nov, went in for a quick look and the chap suggested I discount Browning (very hefty) and look more at Rizzinni (?) and / or Beretta SP, 30" barrel with multi chokes.
I don't really want to spend more than £1,000 but I thought at least the SP would have a decent resale value if I didn't like it / use it to much.
https://www.guntrader.uk/guns/shotguns/beretta/ove...
https://www.guntrader.uk/guns/shotguns/beretta/ove... (love this one).
Any suggestions on a first gun?
I have a lesson on 2nd Nov, went in for a quick look and the chap suggested I discount Browning (very hefty) and look more at Rizzinni (?) and / or Beretta SP, 30" barrel with multi chokes.
I don't really want to spend more than £1,000 but I thought at least the SP would have a decent resale value if I didn't like it / use it to much.
https://www.guntrader.uk/guns/shotguns/beretta/ove...
https://www.guntrader.uk/guns/shotguns/beretta/ove... (love this one).
I like Browning. Some people don't but each to their own.
I would try and buy right first time, so might be worth trying a few and also making sure you get a fitting session. Changing gun after a few years is hard. I have tried a few times!! You just end up building a collection....
Go and speak to Richard at Bamfords in Eccleston. Top bloke (petrol head too....) and he will sort you out and advise fully on whats best for you and they have pretty much everything in stock.
I would try and buy right first time, so might be worth trying a few and also making sure you get a fitting session. Changing gun after a few years is hard. I have tried a few times!! You just end up building a collection....
Go and speak to Richard at Bamfords in Eccleston. Top bloke (petrol head too....) and he will sort you out and advise fully on whats best for you and they have pretty much everything in stock.
Same for me they are about an hour each way. That said they have the best selection (IMHO) on the shelf.
There are other places but generally speaking your choice is more limited.
I have bought a few shotguns from them over the years and the service is very good and the knowledge they have is worth the drive out there.
There are other places but generally speaking your choice is more limited.
I have bought a few shotguns from them over the years and the service is very good and the knowledge they have is worth the drive out there.
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