The Running Thread Vol 2
Discussion
RobM77 said:
crashley said:
I've never been much of a runner bar a marathon back in 2010 (with my wife, for charity) but recently started doing it again with a view to lose some timber and i'm getting frustrated with calf strains. Runs ranging from 'fast' 5k (24mins) runs to more gentle 14k runs (1hr20), typically 2 or 3 per week at most, always including 1x min 10km and 1 shorter run.
I am stretching before and afterwards but regardless i'm getting strains, the last - a few weeks ago - 6.5km into a longer run and i had to call wifey to collect me.
What am i doing wrong?
This is pretty common - I had it when I transitioned to running mid/fore foot. Someone more experienced like Smitters may be able to offer better advice, but some things to note:I am stretching before and afterwards but regardless i'm getting strains, the last - a few weeks ago - 6.5km into a longer run and i had to call wifey to collect me.
What am i doing wrong?
- Too many fast sustained efforts? Only the very injury-resistant, or under 30s, will be able to sustain a 24 minute race effort like your 5km Parkruns every week, or even every fortnight. Even if it's slightly off race effort and more like a tempo pace for you, 24 minutes in one go is a typical tempo run for someone doing a higher regular mileage than you're doing - most beginner to intermediate runners run tempo pace for 15-20 minutes followed by 500-1000m recovery jog before going again, if experienced and with higher mileage. If not causing the issue, this will cause increased cumulative load.
- A better warm-up. Look on You Tube for warm up routines - for the calves I always do this before each run: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Zs4hh4cp98 Note the dynamic movements - static stretching comes after a run. James Dunne is a really decent guy - he has a video on calf pain you can check out too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJtlwdHtwPo&t=... I always start each run with a brisk walk, a little jog, and then a series of dynamic movements like this. I also always precede speed sessions like intervals, tempo or a race, with a 10 minute easy jog.
- Gait. I've had remarkable results having my gait changed by a specialist. I went to https://www.therunninglab.co.uk/ for several sessions, but trustworthy and very fast (2min25 marathon) You Tuber Ben Parkes recommends https://www.runningreborn.co.uk/
Edited by RobM77 on Thursday 6th February 16:43
crashley said:
RobM77 said:
crashley said:
I've never been much of a runner bar a marathon back in 2010 (with my wife, for charity) but recently started doing it again with a view to lose some timber and i'm getting frustrated with calf strains. Runs ranging from 'fast' 5k (24mins) runs to more gentle 14k runs (1hr20), typically 2 or 3 per week at most, always including 1x min 10km and 1 shorter run.
I am stretching before and afterwards but regardless i'm getting strains, the last - a few weeks ago - 6.5km into a longer run and i had to call wifey to collect me.
What am i doing wrong?
This is pretty common - I had it when I transitioned to running mid/fore foot. Someone more experienced like Smitters may be able to offer better advice, but some things to note:I am stretching before and afterwards but regardless i'm getting strains, the last - a few weeks ago - 6.5km into a longer run and i had to call wifey to collect me.
What am i doing wrong?
- Too many fast sustained efforts? Only the very injury-resistant, or under 30s, will be able to sustain a 24 minute race effort like your 5km Parkruns every week, or even every fortnight. Even if it's slightly off race effort and more like a tempo pace for you, 24 minutes in one go is a typical tempo run for someone doing a higher regular mileage than you're doing - most beginner to intermediate runners run tempo pace for 15-20 minutes followed by 500-1000m recovery jog before going again, if experienced and with higher mileage. If not causing the issue, this will cause increased cumulative load.
- A better warm-up. Look on You Tube for warm up routines - for the calves I always do this before each run: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Zs4hh4cp98 Note the dynamic movements - static stretching comes after a run. James Dunne is a really decent guy - he has a video on calf pain you can check out too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJtlwdHtwPo&t=... I always start each run with a brisk walk, a little jog, and then a series of dynamic movements like this. I also always precede speed sessions like intervals, tempo or a race, with a 10 minute easy jog.
- Gait. I've had remarkable results having my gait changed by a specialist. I went to https://www.therunninglab.co.uk/ for several sessions, but trustworthy and very fast (2min25 marathon) You Tuber Ben Parkes recommends https://www.runningreborn.co.uk/
Edited by RobM77 on Thursday 6th February 16:43
Heel striking caused me to stop due to pain and swelling after 1-3 months of attempted running all through my adult life, so much so I never even started a race. At one point I couldn't even walk up stairs. eventually I went to the Running Lab (link above) and transitioned to forefoot strike aged 40 without an issue. The key was to do it a bit at a time. I did have a few hobble home moments (as mentioned above), but the transition took a few months and I've not looked back since. I've now been running 2+ years with no knee pain at all.
It's expensive, but I'd highly recommend seeing one of the gait experts I've linked to above.
crashley said:
Really helpful, ty. I have already adjusted my technique to land heel first, as I had been running on my toes (from years of footy I'm guessing) but I was told I was too old (36) to run distance like that!
I don't think that's the answer, particularly if you're landing with a straight leg - that's a lot of load straight up through your knees, plus it will slow you down as heel striking leads to a braking force with each step.Sounds like proper gait analysis would be of benefit, but AIUI you should be looking ultimately for a mid-foot landing with a slightly bent knee, with your shin perpendicular to the ground
johnwilliams77 said:
Just managed a 6:20 mile as a part of a longer 6 miler run. I am happy with that and would be even happier if I could string 3 of them together in a parkrun in a few weeks. I feel fit when I can do sub 20 despite plenty of runners my age being able to do sub 19, 18 and 17...
6:20 is incredibly fast.my best is 7:15! for a single mile sprint.
I don't think you can compare yourself to other runners, only what you can do.
I know I am a 24-25 minute parkrunner so my target is 23's. not what anybody else can do.
smn159 said:
crashley said:
Really helpful, ty. I have already adjusted my technique to land heel first, as I had been running on my toes (from years of footy I'm guessing) but I was told I was too old (36) to run distance like that!
I don't think that's the answer, particularly if you're landing with a straight leg - that's a lot of load straight up through your knees, plus it will slow you down as heel striking leads to a braking force with each step.Sounds like proper gait analysis would be of benefit, but AIUI you should be looking ultimately for a mid-foot landing with a slightly bent knee, with your shin perpendicular to the ground
I forgot to mention that - there's also the inefficiencies with each footstrike slowing you down.It sounds to me like the person Crashly spoke to was confused. People who suddenly transition to forefoot running, rather than phasing it in gradually, can get horrendous achilles and calf issues, which are worse the longer you've been heelstriking, and that could perhaps lead someone to think that forefoot running is the preserve of the young. There's two mistakes there: one is to think that older people can't transition gradually to a mid/fore foot strike, and the other's to think this (already faulty!) advice to avoid fore/mid striking applies to people who forefoot strike already.
Talking of footstrike and gait analysis, I cam across the NURVV guys at the National Running Show a couple of weeks ago.
It's a pair of insoles with a host of sensors and a companion app for your mobile that provides analytics and insight on your running technique (including footstrike analysis). The great thing is that you can continue to collect data over all of your runs (and measure improvements/progress) rather than just during consultations with specialists.
The solution isn't particularly cheap, but could be cost effective compared to a number of specialist consultations.
I have no affiliation, but spent quite some time speaking to the product guys in their stand (and saw the product in action) and came away impressed.
It's a pair of insoles with a host of sensors and a companion app for your mobile that provides analytics and insight on your running technique (including footstrike analysis). The great thing is that you can continue to collect data over all of your runs (and measure improvements/progress) rather than just during consultations with specialists.
The solution isn't particularly cheap, but could be cost effective compared to a number of specialist consultations.
I have no affiliation, but spent quite some time speaking to the product guys in their stand (and saw the product in action) and came away impressed.
So much is written about footstriking and from years of running, I have came to the conclusion that within reason, there is no wrong answer. There are very quick runners who will heelstrike and have horrendous looking technique and very slow runners who have perfect form and a feather light forefoot strike.
I'm a natural fore/midfoot striker with massive overpronation issues - I have tried altering my footstrike more than once, tried things like Newtons (which are forefoot striking specific shoes) and run in everything from racing flats to very supportive motion control trainers. If I am running a 5K effort, in a pair of racing flats then I will be pure forefoot striking, on a long run this will be closer to a midfoot strike. Uphill/downhill makes a difference as well.
The main thing is where you foot strike is relative to your body - it should be under you - not in front. The bit of your foot which touches down first matters far less than this. Once you have that nailed, if what you do naturally works for you - why force anything.
Its all well and good running the first 20km of a marathon with perfect form that you are forcing, but it is the last half where form goes out the window and you do what is natural to you that matters.
I'm a natural fore/midfoot striker with massive overpronation issues - I have tried altering my footstrike more than once, tried things like Newtons (which are forefoot striking specific shoes) and run in everything from racing flats to very supportive motion control trainers. If I am running a 5K effort, in a pair of racing flats then I will be pure forefoot striking, on a long run this will be closer to a midfoot strike. Uphill/downhill makes a difference as well.
The main thing is where you foot strike is relative to your body - it should be under you - not in front. The bit of your foot which touches down first matters far less than this. Once you have that nailed, if what you do naturally works for you - why force anything.
Its all well and good running the first 20km of a marathon with perfect form that you are forcing, but it is the last half where form goes out the window and you do what is natural to you that matters.
crashley said:
Really helpful, ty. I have already adjusted my technique to land heel first, as I had been running on my toes (from years of footy I'm guessing) but I was told I was too old (36) to run distance like that!
I went the other way as kept getting injuries running heel first. I’ve not had an injury for years running fore foot and am older than you. There’s always been debate about heel vs fore foot running but this seems like bad advice to me for you to be told to change (due to your age) Why would you want to move from a technique that’s working for you to landing heel first?
Fair enough if you keep getting injured and your technique was causing problems but you’re more likely to injure yourself changing.
smn159 said:
crashley said:
Really helpful, ty. I have already adjusted my technique to land heel first, as I had been running on my toes (from years of footy I'm guessing) but I was told I was too old (36) to run distance like that!
I don't think that's the answer, particularly if you're landing with a straight leg - that's a lot of load straight up through your knees, plus it will slow you down as heel striking leads to a braking force with each step.Sounds like proper gait analysis would be of benefit, but AIUI you should be looking ultimately for a mid-foot landing with a slightly bent knee, with your shin perpendicular to the ground
I'm now pretty comfortable as a mid-striker and am now just working on increasing distance, and mixing up my training runs.
As always - a big thank you to all on here for the advice - as a novice runner lurking in the background on this thread it has been well worth reading through all of this
crashley said:
I've never been much of a runner bar a marathon back in 2010 (with my wife, for charity) but recently started doing it again with a view to lose some timber and i'm getting frustrated with calf strains. Runs ranging from 'fast' 5k (24mins) runs to more gentle 14k runs (1hr20), typically 2 or 3 per week at most, always including 1x min 10km and 1 shorter run.
I am stretching before and afterwards but regardless i'm getting strains, the last - a few weeks ago - 6.5km into a longer run and i had to call wifey to collect me.
What am i doing wrong?
Not foamrolling a few times a week. I am stretching before and afterwards but regardless i'm getting strains, the last - a few weeks ago - 6.5km into a longer run and i had to call wifey to collect me.
What am i doing wrong?
gazza285 said:
T6 vanman said:
A touch wet and blustery at this mornings half marathon …
My garmin Vivosport decided to end the measuring after 1km, anyone else had problems with one of these and wet sleeves?
If it’s not on Strava it didn’t happen. Them’s the rules.My garmin Vivosport decided to end the measuring after 1km, anyone else had problems with one of these and wet sleeves?
Point to point half this morning. All headwind. Fml.
Managed a pb at my local parkrun yesterday of 18m50s. I've done that time for 5k before but my local has a fair lump of a hill that has to be done 3 times so was very happy. Actually felt strongest in my last mile, tho I didn't take into account I had an 8k cross country to do 3 hours later 
Tempted to buy into the hype...
Tried a pair of Zoom Pegasus Turbo's at the weekend (same foam at the Vaporfly, but no carbon) and they do indeed feel like running on trampolines. Horrid to walk in, but can see why Nike are winning everything going. Went in wanting a pair of old school racing flats, left thinking about a pair of space age moonboots.
Got a US trip coming up soon - may need to see if I can pick up a pair of Vaporflys over there - hopefully the Alphafly will reduce the price a bit also. paying £1 a mile or whatever the Vaporflys end up costing stings a bit too much...
Does a 40 min 10k runner need them? Of course not - but if they give you a free minute or two then who cares - I am happy to race on a bike dripping in tech to make me go faster, why should running be different?
Tried a pair of Zoom Pegasus Turbo's at the weekend (same foam at the Vaporfly, but no carbon) and they do indeed feel like running on trampolines. Horrid to walk in, but can see why Nike are winning everything going. Went in wanting a pair of old school racing flats, left thinking about a pair of space age moonboots.
Got a US trip coming up soon - may need to see if I can pick up a pair of Vaporflys over there - hopefully the Alphafly will reduce the price a bit also. paying £1 a mile or whatever the Vaporflys end up costing stings a bit too much...
Does a 40 min 10k runner need them? Of course not - but if they give you a free minute or two then who cares - I am happy to race on a bike dripping in tech to make me go faster, why should running be different?
Gassing Station | Sports | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff