The **BOXING** thread (Vol 3)
Discussion
i find myself flip flopping about these youtubers and celebrity types "turning pro" and fighting under boxing rules...
on one hand if a fight is billed as an exhibition (like mayweather/ mcgregor or mayweather/the japanese kickboxing kid) i can't complain too much... i find i lose a lot of respect when mayweather tries to pass it off as a genuine win......f
k me, trying to pass off the mcgregor "win" as breaking rocky marciano's record was disgraceful....
i found it a bit distateful that pro boxers were on the undercard of that paul/ksi farce but who am i to get all snooty about it? saunders will have earned a good payday there and how many of the youtube / gamer types who turned on and paid for the event to see the headliner will have been exposed to proper boxing on the undercard and become fans? if only a handful it's still good for the sport..
eddie hall and thor now scheduled for september... will i pay for it?? fk off 
footage of them is laughable but they'll both make millions from it...my last fight got me a few beers and a small fistfull of cash afterwards..if eddie hall was in this conversation right now he'd be laughing his bks off at me for having the audacity to question his skill set
on one hand if a fight is billed as an exhibition (like mayweather/ mcgregor or mayweather/the japanese kickboxing kid) i can't complain too much... i find i lose a lot of respect when mayweather tries to pass it off as a genuine win......f
k me, trying to pass off the mcgregor "win" as breaking rocky marciano's record was disgraceful....i found it a bit distateful that pro boxers were on the undercard of that paul/ksi farce but who am i to get all snooty about it? saunders will have earned a good payday there and how many of the youtube / gamer types who turned on and paid for the event to see the headliner will have been exposed to proper boxing on the undercard and become fans? if only a handful it's still good for the sport..
eddie hall and thor now scheduled for september... will i pay for it?? f
k off footage of them is laughable but they'll both make millions from it...my last fight got me a few beers and a small fistfull of cash afterwards..if eddie hall was in this conversation right now he'd be laughing his bks off at me for having the audacity to question his skill setTusc, boxing seems to be competing with UFC for which will be the premier fighting sport for future generations. Both as fans and also as a career.
With boxing politics preventing many fights that should happen, it is self sabotage. So if youtubers and so on get the future generations viewing and into boxing gyms then great.
As the kids are not going to care about Khan vs Brook.
With boxing politics preventing many fights that should happen, it is self sabotage. So if youtubers and so on get the future generations viewing and into boxing gyms then great.
As the kids are not going to care about Khan vs Brook.
hyphen said:
Tusc, boxing seems to be competing with UFC for which will be the premier fighting sport for future generations. Both as fans and also as a career.
With boxing politics preventing many fights that should happen, it is self sabotage. So if youtubers and so on get the future generations viewing and into boxing gyms then great.
As the kids are not going to care about Khan vs Brook.
that's kind of how i see it pal...if a handful of strongman types watch those 2 leviathans locking horns and suddenly get a spark of interest in proper boxing then great... ultimately whatever works!....With boxing politics preventing many fights that should happen, it is self sabotage. So if youtubers and so on get the future generations viewing and into boxing gyms then great.
As the kids are not going to care about Khan vs Brook.
when i was a kid my old man used to let me either stay up or get up in the night to watch guys like mike tyson...it captivated me and turned me into a lifelong fan.... but in the 80s ufc didn't exist, westerners weren't really exposed (at least in a media sense) to muay thai and karate/judo was something that middle aged men pranced around at in leisure centre sports halls...
boxing really had the combat sports market all to itself back then, so it has to work harder now and get itself up to date to keep attracting new fans to the sport to keep the money flowing...
i agree the key to that is making the best match ups but also hyping the fighters and promoting them properly...
as you know i like keeping an eye on these emerging ex eastern block countries as a rich seam of future talent but even in this thread of knowledgable boxing guys i very rarely see mention of guys like israil madrimov, shakrham giyasov etc.... these guys are the future stars of the sport but nobody knows who they are...
christ, it took guys like bivol to win a world title before anyone even clocked who he was ... it's absolutely mad to think how big a star golovkin is now but if you trawl back through this thread far enough you'll find my post about an exciting young kazakh ex amateur standout who was 12-0 as a pro prospect who referred to himself as GGG....
and this leads me to my point .... i have to really dig around and keep an eye on the amateurs and invest time in finding corkers like madrimov or jalovov.... if a kid starts watching ufc i think it's easier to get invested in the fighters...i know stallone and ray leonard reacted to the ufc reallity show with the "contender" series but it sort of fizzled out...
boxing can't rely on past glories.. you're not gonna see the likes of dempsey or ali again BUT if you look at how big a fight fury and joshua will be or how big klitschko joshua was there's the proof that when boxing gets it right IT IS the biggest combat sport on the planet and the promoters involved should nurture what is still (despite the unpresidented success of ufc) far and away the world's biggest combat sport.
Meh.
YouTubers 'boxing' is fine with me but it doesn't increase the audience for proper boxing, it just robs boxing of credibility. The people tuning in to watch a YouTuber are not watching the undercard and won't watch again unless there is another novelty fight. I do think that the American licensing system needs to be improved, the medical requirements to get a pro license vary state by state but are largely pretty basic.
The Strongman contest is exactly the same, it isn't for boxing fans, its for people interested in the, ahem, 'sport' of pushing cars over and pulling buses. It will sell to people interested in strongman competitions but no boxing fans are watching it. There have been plenty of videos of them both training and one of them did an exhibition against a (admittedly decent) light heavyweight who could have smashed him to pieces if he felt like it.
(FYI Mayweather v McGregor was not billed as an exhibition despite being as legitimate a contest as Mayweather v the various women he has knocked around)
YouTubers 'boxing' is fine with me but it doesn't increase the audience for proper boxing, it just robs boxing of credibility. The people tuning in to watch a YouTuber are not watching the undercard and won't watch again unless there is another novelty fight. I do think that the American licensing system needs to be improved, the medical requirements to get a pro license vary state by state but are largely pretty basic.
The Strongman contest is exactly the same, it isn't for boxing fans, its for people interested in the, ahem, 'sport' of pushing cars over and pulling buses. It will sell to people interested in strongman competitions but no boxing fans are watching it. There have been plenty of videos of them both training and one of them did an exhibition against a (admittedly decent) light heavyweight who could have smashed him to pieces if he felt like it.
(FYI Mayweather v McGregor was not billed as an exhibition despite being as legitimate a contest as Mayweather v the various women he has knocked around)
The idea that boxing needs any help to ruin its credibility is laughable. The number of tomato cans that get fed to prospects is ridiculous. For every entertaining fight I've watched I bet I've sat through ten absolute stinkers and mismatches, even great fights have been ruined by dodgy scoring.
Boxing needs these YouTubers more than they need Boxing.
Boxing needs these YouTubers more than they need Boxing.
Lee Jones Jnr said:
Meh.
YouTubers 'boxing' is fine with me but it doesn't increase the audience for proper boxing, it just robs boxing of credibility. The people tuning in to watch a YouTuber are not watching the undercard and won't watch again unless there is another novelty fight. I do think that the American licensing system needs to be improved, the medical requirements to get a pro license vary state by state but are largely pretty basic.
The Strongman contest is exactly the same, it isn't for boxing fans, its for people interested in the, ahem, 'sport' of pushing cars over and pulling buses. It will sell to people interested in strongman competitions but no boxing fans are watching it. There have been plenty of videos of them both training and one of them did an exhibition against a (admittedly decent) light heavyweight who could have smashed him to pieces if he felt like it.
(FYI Mayweather v McGregor was not billed as an exhibition despite being as legitimate a contest as Mayweather v the various women he has knocked around)
nah, don't agree it robs the sport of credibility at all..people know what this "fight" is... just like they did when ricky gervais was windmilling with grant bovey..that didn't effect the standing of the sport despite being watched by millions on bbc1.... the problem comes when it gets mis sold as the genuine article...YouTubers 'boxing' is fine with me but it doesn't increase the audience for proper boxing, it just robs boxing of credibility. The people tuning in to watch a YouTuber are not watching the undercard and won't watch again unless there is another novelty fight. I do think that the American licensing system needs to be improved, the medical requirements to get a pro license vary state by state but are largely pretty basic.
The Strongman contest is exactly the same, it isn't for boxing fans, its for people interested in the, ahem, 'sport' of pushing cars over and pulling buses. It will sell to people interested in strongman competitions but no boxing fans are watching it. There have been plenty of videos of them both training and one of them did an exhibition against a (admittedly decent) light heavyweight who could have smashed him to pieces if he felt like it.
(FYI Mayweather v McGregor was not billed as an exhibition despite being as legitimate a contest as Mayweather v the various women he has knocked around)
a kid who likes watching strength competition (and it is a legit sport whether you like it or not fella
, just as olympic weight lifting is) is very much the kind of kid who might, just might , watch the card and decide to check out a bit more boxing for real..and yeah, we may be splitting hairs with mayweather/mcgregor .... however it was marketed it was expected to be a bit of a barn dance that had been practically choreographed... a full blown exhibition... which is exactly how it turned out...
tuscaneer said:
nah, don't agree it robs the sport of credibility at all..people know what this "fight" is... just like they did when ricky gervais was windmilling with grant bovey..that didn't effect the standing of the sport despite being watched by millions on bbc1.... the problem comes when it gets mis sold as the genuine article...
a kid who likes watching strength competition (and it is a legit sport whether you like it or not fella, just as olympic weight lifting is) is very much the kind of kid who might, just might , watch the card and decide to check out a bit more boxing for real..
and yeah, we may be splitting hairs with mayweather/mcgregor .... however it was marketed it was expected to be a bit of a barn dance that had been practically choreographed... a full blown exhibition... which is exactly how it turned out...
Opinions vary. You have faith in people to know what they are watching. I do not.a kid who likes watching strength competition (and it is a legit sport whether you like it or not fella
, just as olympic weight lifting is) is very much the kind of kid who might, just might , watch the card and decide to check out a bit more boxing for real..and yeah, we may be splitting hairs with mayweather/mcgregor .... however it was marketed it was expected to be a bit of a barn dance that had been practically choreographed... a full blown exhibition... which is exactly how it turned out...
Gervais v Bovey was white collar boxing, shown for exactly what it was, that quite different to YouTubers having pro contests.
With regards the strongman match, if you want to call WSM a sport thats fine with me, I think I'd describe it as a competition but I don't care enough to argue. Same with snooker or darts I guess. I suppose its POSSIBLE that someone might watch it and be interested in proper boxing. I don't think if I saw Canelo lifting a boulder onto a pedestal that it would spark an interest in becoming a strongman or watching the events but who knows.
There were plenty of people, not people who know the basics of boxing, but still a lot, who thought McGregor would win. It was shameful in the end wasn't it.
ofcorsa said:
The idea that boxing needs any help to ruin its credibility is laughable. The number of tomato cans that get fed to prospects is ridiculous. For every entertaining fight I've watched I bet I've sat through ten absolute stinkers and mismatches, even great fights have been ruined by dodgy scoring.
Boxing needs these YouTubers more than they need Boxing.
I don't think either NEEDS the other, but the YouTubers 'boxing pro' are gaining more from it than boxing is.Boxing needs these YouTubers more than they need Boxing.
ACCYSTAN said:
They have missed the boat
I blame Kahn more than Brook, Brook always seemed the more eager where as Khan kept putting it off with his USA pay days
You will be surprised. If the fight is announced then a little bit of creative promoting will still get a decent PPV out of it. I blame Kahn more than Brook, Brook always seemed the more eager where as Khan kept putting it off with his USA pay days
They both know that the match up between them is the only option they have left - question is, do they need the money?
fridaypassion said:
Boxing is a sport (the purest form of Sport when it's done right) nut its also show business and there's no showbusiness to match YouTube right now.
Indeed.I don't actually know what they do on YouTube, play games I think, but they bring the audience which is where the money comes from. I know a lot of boxers get upset about the money but if Tom Hanks had a pro 'fight' he would instantly be one of the highest paid boxers in the world.
Lee Jones Jnr said:
Opinions vary. You have faith in people to know what they are watching. I do not.
Gervais v Bovey was white collar boxing, shown for exactly what it was, that quite different to YouTubers having pro contests.
With regards the strongman match, if you want to call WSM a sport thats fine with me, I think I'd describe it as a competition but I don't care enough to argue. Same with snooker or darts I guess. I suppose its POSSIBLE that someone might watch it and be interested in proper boxing. I don't think if I saw Canelo lifting a boulder onto a pedestal that it would spark an interest in becoming a strongman or watching the events but who knows.
There were plenty of people, not people who know the basics of boxing, but still a lot, who thought McGregor would win. It was shameful in the end wasn't it.
interesting... it does pose the question... how many people who actually, actively go to boxing events/pay eddie hearn 20 quid for a ppv really understand what they are looking at? ... not as many as i'd like to think i suspect!.....Gervais v Bovey was white collar boxing, shown for exactly what it was, that quite different to YouTubers having pro contests.
With regards the strongman match, if you want to call WSM a sport thats fine with me, I think I'd describe it as a competition but I don't care enough to argue. Same with snooker or darts I guess. I suppose its POSSIBLE that someone might watch it and be interested in proper boxing. I don't think if I saw Canelo lifting a boulder onto a pedestal that it would spark an interest in becoming a strongman or watching the events but who knows.
There were plenty of people, not people who know the basics of boxing, but still a lot, who thought McGregor would win. It was shameful in the end wasn't it.
but for every nerd who trawls back over 100 odd years of grainy black and white footage or forks out stupid money for ancient books about the old bare knuckle greats (guilty!!) there's dozens who like to have a few beers with pals and just watch "the fight" ...
i suppose the dyed in the wool types take this youtube stuff for what it is... the greater public don't care either way... no harm done!
See my post above re showbusiness
Nothing wrong with that but you often see this played out when there's outrage over a points decision where people don't understand the rules and scoring system. I would go as far as to say that most people who watch probably don't have that level of understanding but just enjoy the spectacle and/or support a specific fighter.
Nothing wrong with that but you often see this played out when there's outrage over a points decision where people don't understand the rules and scoring system. I would go as far as to say that most people who watch probably don't have that level of understanding but just enjoy the spectacle and/or support a specific fighter.
Lee Jones Jnr said:
fridaypassion said:
Boxing is a sport (the purest form of Sport when it's done right) nut its also show business and there's no showbusiness to match YouTube right now.
Indeed.I don't actually know what they do on YouTube, play games I think, but they bring the audience which is where the money comes from. I know a lot of boxers get upset about the money but if Tom Hanks had a pro 'fight' he would instantly be one of the highest paid boxers in the world.
fridaypassion said:
See my post above re showbusiness
Nothing wrong with that but you often see this played out when there's outrage over a points decision where people don't understand the rules and scoring system. I would go as far as to say that most people who watch probably don't have that level of understanding but just enjoy the spectacle and/or support a specific fighter.
think you're spot on pal.... most of my mates don't watch and have no interest.. a few will go to the fights and have a ppv piss up at the pub or in the house...1 or 2 actually give enough of a sNothing wrong with that but you often see this played out when there's outrage over a points decision where people don't understand the rules and scoring system. I would go as far as to say that most people who watch probably don't have that level of understanding but just enjoy the spectacle and/or support a specific fighter.
t to take the time to do background work to really understand what they are watching.... i'm the only one i know who goes to the lengths i do to keep an eye on the sports rising fighters..i remember years ago watching frank maloney interviewed about the cuban amateur dominance and he said something along the lines of "everybody is watching these mature cuban amateur veterens and swooning... what's coming up behind isn't so good... nobody is looking east... keep your eyes peeled for years of eastern european dominance because the kids in these old soviet block countries are filling the gyms and the soviet style amateur program is yielding results that will flourish for decades"
he was spot on in his assesment and we did/have seen these guys absolutely dominate in the amateurs for best part of 20 years now.... which brings me neatly back to my point yesterday...
i have to work hard to follow the careers of these emerging talents as they just aren't marketed well enough for western audiences.... they will keep maintaining a dominant presence in the pros over the coming years too but where do they get their paying public from i wonder... south america has a huge amount of fans watching (but mexican fans want to watch mexican fighters).... north america it seems to be dwindling back, which was always the centre of the world for boxing...be interesting to see how it all plays out
Edited by tuscaneer on Thursday 8th April 07:16
ACCYSTAN said:
They have missed the boat
I blame Kahn more than Brook, Brook always seemed the more eager where as Khan kept putting it off with his USA pay days
Exactly 10 years ago it would have been great but they have both chased the money elsewhere.I blame Kahn more than Brook, Brook always seemed the more eager where as Khan kept putting it off with his USA pay days
Khan is now inactive so hes a massive question mark.
Brook is coming off the back of some major losses, albeit to the current absolute elite. I don't think peak Brook would have beaten any of them but hes managed to get some big paydays. I mean could you see Brook beating Mayweather or Pacqiao at any point?
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