England cricket 2023 & 2024
Discussion
Gordon Hill said:
You have to be realistic, our only world class bowler is 41, our only world class batsmen has been out of form, this test apart, and world class opposition will win most of the time against this brand of cricket.
So in Australia and India we're going to lose that's just how it works. There's no point complaining about it because even if we get bowled out for 50 every innings Baz and Ben aren't going to change, they're here to entertain and 'revolutionize ' the face of cricket, when it works great, when we biff Sri Lanka on a Lords flat track in July for 500 in a day all is well, meanwhile on a bouncy Perth with Cummins, Stark, Hazelwood and Lyon same old.
Absolutely.So in Australia and India we're going to lose that's just how it works. There's no point complaining about it because even if we get bowled out for 50 every innings Baz and Ben aren't going to change, they're here to entertain and 'revolutionize ' the face of cricket, when it works great, when we biff Sri Lanka on a Lords flat track in July for 500 in a day all is well, meanwhile on a bouncy Perth with Cummins, Stark, Hazelwood and Lyon same old.
The fact is that better teams win the majority of the time, in their home conditions. We might sneak a win here and there but series wins overseas are like gold dust. I still maintain though that we weren’t miles away from winning the last test. 2-2 sounds a lot better than 1-3.
PhilkSVR said:
Gordon Hill said:
You have to be realistic, our only world class bowler is 41, our only world class batsmen has been out of form, this test apart, and world class opposition will win most of the time against this brand of cricket.
So in Australia and India we're going to lose that's just how it works. There's no point complaining about it because even if we get bowled out for 50 every innings Baz and Ben aren't going to change, they're here to entertain and 'revolutionize ' the face of cricket, when it works great, when we biff Sri Lanka on a Lords flat track in July for 500 in a day all is well, meanwhile on a bouncy Perth with Cummins, Stark, Hazelwood and Lyon same old.
Absolutely.So in Australia and India we're going to lose that's just how it works. There's no point complaining about it because even if we get bowled out for 50 every innings Baz and Ben aren't going to change, they're here to entertain and 'revolutionize ' the face of cricket, when it works great, when we biff Sri Lanka on a Lords flat track in July for 500 in a day all is well, meanwhile on a bouncy Perth with Cummins, Stark, Hazelwood and Lyon same old.
The fact is that better teams win the majority of the time, in their home conditions. We might sneak a win here and there but series wins overseas are like gold dust. I still maintain though that we weren’t miles away from winning the last test. 2-2 sounds a lot better than 1-3.
The current batsmen can't do that so they blast away from the off, as I said it's not on the agenda to stop now so for good or bad it's not going to change.
Gordon Hill said:
Thing is that against high quality bowling you can't bully them for long periods, that's why they've been world class over many years. You may get away with it for an hour or so and ride your luck but eventually they'll get you out. Our best test batsmen recognised this and that sometimes you just have to stay in and see them off or wait for them to tire.
The current batsmen can't do that so they blast away from the off, as I said it's not on the agenda to stop now so for good or bad it's not going to change.
I haven’t been able to watch so I can’t comment on how they have batted, but they haven’t just ‘blasted away’ from the start as I understand it. Certainly Stokes hasn’t from the number of balls he faces and Duckett for example got out in the second by trying to defend. There is no way they are simply going to be gung-ho all the time, that will never work. I keep repeating that it’s about smarter batting, understanding when to sit in but also knowing when to go harder. Allowing bowlers to dominate over long periods doesn’t work either. It’s tough. The current batsmen can't do that so they blast away from the off, as I said it's not on the agenda to stop now so for good or bad it's not going to change.
I remember English batsmen in the past who could score at a good lick but had the technique and ability to sit in at times too, Gooch, Gower, Smith, Trescothick etc. I'm not looking at that particular time through rose tinted spectacles, we still lost. Just very poor judgement at times and knowing when to hold back a bit. Stokes hasn't contributed much with the bat since he took over the captaincy with one or two notable exceptions. He doesn't seem to know what type of innings to play now, biff or all out defence.
Gordon Hill said:
I remember English batsmen in the past who could score at a good lick but had the technique and ability to sit in at times too, Gooch, Gower, Smith, Trescothick etc. I'm not looking at that particular time through rose tinted spectacles, we still lost. Just very poor judgement at times and knowing when to hold back a bit. Stokes hasn't contributed much with the bat since he took over the captaincy with one or two notable exceptions. He doesn't seem to know what type of innings to play now, biff or all out defence.
Some quality batters there. Although Gower wasn’t great at sitting in 
Not sure I agree with you about Stokes though.Edited by PhilkSVR on Tuesday 27th February 18:45
Seems in most innings, to me, that he's stuck between 2 modes. Some of his best innings for us have had a very slow start indeed, I'm thinking of Headingley. As did Botham, he could be very sedate at the start of an innings and then once past 30 or 40 start to wind it up.
I'd much rather see that, get in first, too many bright and breezy 20's from the top order.
I certainly don't want to go back to the Tavare days of batting for 6 hours for 36.
I'd much rather see that, get in first, too many bright and breezy 20's from the top order.
I certainly don't want to go back to the Tavare days of batting for 6 hours for 36.
Edited by Gordon Hill on Tuesday 27th February 20:26
Gordon Hill said:
Seems in most innings, to me, that he's stuck between 2 modes. Some of his best innings for us have had a very slow start indeed, I'm thinking of Headingley. As did Botham, he could be very sedate at the start of an innings and then once past 30 or 40 start to wind it up.
I'd much rather see that, get in first, too many bright and breezy 20's from the top order.
I certainly don't want to go back to the Tavare days of batting for 6 hours for 36.
Speak for yourself! I love the idea of limpet cricket - leave, leave, leave, leave, leave - walk about the crease and do some gardening, block. That speaks of a will-power, few if any nowadays can generate. The over-riding principle of test cricket is that of time. That exemplifies the battle between bat and ball, an obdurate batsman and a toiling bowler. I'd much rather see that, get in first, too many bright and breezy 20's from the top order.
I certainly don't want to go back to the Tavare days of batting for 6 hours for 36.
Edited by Gordon Hill on Tuesday 27th February 20:26
As for taking 6 hours for 36 runs, the current England team would struggle to bowl 36 overs in 6 hours.
Magikarp said:
Gordon Hill said:
Seems in most innings, to me, that he's stuck between 2 modes. Some of his best innings for us have had a very slow start indeed, I'm thinking of Headingley. As did Botham, he could be very sedate at the start of an innings and then once past 30 or 40 start to wind it up.
I'd much rather see that, get in first, too many bright and breezy 20's from the top order.
I certainly don't want to go back to the Tavare days of batting for 6 hours for 36.
Speak for yourself! I love the idea of limpet cricket - leave, leave, leave, leave, leave - walk about the crease and do some gardening, block. That speaks of a will-power, few if any nowadays can generate. The over-riding principle of test cricket is that of time. That exemplifies the battle between bat and ball, an obdurate batsman and a toiling bowler. I'd much rather see that, get in first, too many bright and breezy 20's from the top order.
I certainly don't want to go back to the Tavare days of batting for 6 hours for 36.
Edited by Gordon Hill on Tuesday 27th February 20:26
As for taking 6 hours for 36 runs, the current England team would struggle to bowl 36 overs in 6 hours.
Tom8 said:
Magikarp said:
Gordon Hill said:
Seems in most innings, to me, that he's stuck between 2 modes. Some of his best innings for us have had a very slow start indeed, I'm thinking of Headingley. As did Botham, he could be very sedate at the start of an innings and then once past 30 or 40 start to wind it up.
I'd much rather see that, get in first, too many bright and breezy 20's from the top order.
I certainly don't want to go back to the Tavare days of batting for 6 hours for 36.
Speak for yourself! I love the idea of limpet cricket - leave, leave, leave, leave, leave - walk about the crease and do some gardening, block. That speaks of a will-power, few if any nowadays can generate. The over-riding principle of test cricket is that of time. That exemplifies the battle between bat and ball, an obdurate batsman and a toiling bowler. I'd much rather see that, get in first, too many bright and breezy 20's from the top order.
I certainly don't want to go back to the Tavare days of batting for 6 hours for 36.
Edited by Gordon Hill on Tuesday 27th February 20:26
As for taking 6 hours for 36 runs, the current England team would struggle to bowl 36 overs in 6 hours.
Used to play 3 times a week, Wednesday night slog and then proper limited overs of 45 a side Saturday and Sunday, I went in at the fall of the first wicket which was usually in the first couple of overs and took great joy in using as many of them up as I could in accumulation. My brother on the other hand, a big fella, liked to get 50 in an hour and then sit down. I remember putting on a 115 run partnership with him of which my contribution was 25.
Edited by Gordon Hill on Thursday 29th February 17:30
PhilkSVR said:
The forecast is for a high of 8 degrees on day 1 in Dharamsala! That’s a bit nippy Oh and showers too…
One of my team lives near there, not quite the same place but close. Has some mad weather, cloud busts just roll off the mountain and dump insane amounts of rain, with winds and thunder and lightning. Oh and showers too…Scabutz said:
One of my team lives near there, not quite the same place but close. Has some mad weather, cloud busts just roll off the mountain and dump insane amounts of rain, with winds and thunder and lightning.
Seems a risky place for a test but I guess they want to share the venues around. Can’t see 5 days play with the weather and the way we are playing…Sky Sports do a podcast with Athers and Nas and today they had a chat with Joe Root. The best bit for me was when he was talking about batting against both Ashwin and Lyon making comparisons between the two. Very interesting. He also talked about JB and his 100th test. They first played together when they were 12. Worth a watch, it’s on YouTube.
Only one change: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/68488004
Jimmy played 4 out of 5 I think? Great to see him still managing to cope with that much, hopefully he'll get a few more wickets this test.
Jimmy played 4 out of 5 I think? Great to see him still managing to cope with that much, hopefully he'll get a few more wickets this test.
UTH said:
Only one change: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/68488004
Jimmy played 4 out of 5 I think? Great to see him still managing to cope with that much, hopefully he'll get a few more wickets this test.
2 more for 700!Jimmy played 4 out of 5 I think? Great to see him still managing to cope with that much, hopefully he'll get a few more wickets this test.
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