The Running Thread Vol 2

[TyrannosauRoss Lex]

joshcowin said:

TyrannosauRoss Lex said:

You managed to get 3km done on the way back. It can't be TOO serious

Exactly my thoughts! Will rest up today and see how it is tomorrow, as I said previously I dont have your self control when it comes to injuries!

Well I did that same 0.25 mile loop round my block yesterday and I barely felt my rib pain at all. Maybe twice, and it was maybe a 1/10 so absolutely getting there. QL muscle still really tight but the rib itself is no longer tender. I did just 30mins on my indoor trainer, large easy, but a 2min effort at my previous max 5min effort (so hard, but not insane) and I had no repercussions. I think considering how much better it felt running yesterday compared to Sunday I should be good to go either next Tuesday or Thursday, I'm thinking probably Thursday but I may try 1/4-1/2 mile Tuesday.

As said, plan is to do 1/2 mile and providing no pain noticed, then 1.5-2 miles, providing no pain, then 3-4 with some strides. If all is still good then I know I'll be good to carry on.

Whilst this injury wasn't TOO painful, it sure is taking its time to recover! At least I've been able to do a small amount of cycling so it won't be like 5 weeks total rest.

[Drezza]

Well I managed to get my first running injury in 70 runs, tweaked something in my back going up a hill and now in certain positions I get excruciating pain that takes my breath away... I've never stretched before a run, lesson learnt I guess.

[TyrannosauRoss Lex]

Drezza said:

Well I managed to get my first running injury in 70 runs, tweaked something in my back going up a hill and now in certain positions I get excruciating pain that takes my breath away... I've never stretched before a run, lesson learnt I guess.

Speaking as a chiropractor, I discourage people from stretching BEFORE exercise. It can actually be detrimental. Believe it or not, research indicates that those who stretch (static stretching) before exercise are more prone to injury.... So no, not a lesson to learn

What positions seem to aggravate your back?

[Drezza]

TyrannosauRoss Lex said:

Speaking as a chiropractor, I discourage people from stretching BEFORE exercise. It can actually be detrimental. Believe it or not, research indicates that those who stretch (static stretching) before exercise are more prone to injury.... So no, not a lesson to learn

What positions seem to aggravate your back?

Oh that's interesting, useful advice cheers I'll carry on being lazy and not stretching then!

It's a sharp pain in my mid spine when I try and straighten my back or if I move too quickly.

[TyrannosauRoss Lex]

Drezza said:

TyrannosauRoss Lex said:

Speaking as a chiropractor, I discourage people from stretching BEFORE exercise. It can actually be detrimental. Believe it or not, research indicates that those who stretch (static stretching) before exercise are more prone to injury.... So no, not a lesson to learn

What positions seem to aggravate your back?

Oh that's interesting, useful advice cheers I'll carry on being lazy and not stretching then!

It's a sharp pain in my mid spine when I try and straighten my back or if I move too quickly.

Anything else hurt? Deep breath in or out doesn't hurt? Bending side to side? Unfortunately will be hard to diagnose over t'internet in reality. Could be something simply like an extensor muscle strain, rib joint irritated, intercostal muscle issue etc etc. When you try bending sideways as far as possible, see if taking a deep breath in or out then increases or decreases pain.

[Drezza]

TyrannosauRoss Lex said:

Anything else hurt? Deep breath in or out doesn't hurt? Bending side to side? Unfortunately will be hard to diagnose over t'internet in reality. Could be something simply like an extensor muscle strain, rib joint irritated, intercostal muscle issue etc etc. When you try bending sideways as far as possible, see if taking a deep breath in or out then increases or decreases pain.

Only my spine, no pain at all if I sit still in a hunched position (my default position thank god )

Side to side painful yes, also when I do a big inhale, guessing time is the best healer for something like this?

[TyrannosauRoss Lex]

Drezza said:

TyrannosauRoss Lex said:

Anything else hurt? Deep breath in or out doesn't hurt? Bending side to side? Unfortunately will be hard to diagnose over t'internet in reality. Could be something simply like an extensor muscle strain, rib joint irritated, intercostal muscle issue etc etc. When you try bending sideways as far as possible, see if taking a deep breath in or out then increases or decreases pain.

Only my spine, no pain at all if I sit still in a hunched position (my default position thank god )

Side to side painful yes, also when I do a big inhale, guessing time is the best healer for something like this?

If it's painful doing a deep breath in it's most likely either an intercostal muscle or, probably more likely, rib joint (costovetebral joint) issue (considering it's right on the spine - where your ribs join!). Time usually sorts these out, time length can vary significantly. Some people will get better within a couple of days, some times they just don't fully resolve without treatment, but that's pretty rare. On average 2-3 weeks, depending on severity.

So yep, rest up and obviously avoid exertion which then causes you to require deeper inspiration. If in the unlikely event it isn't resolved after some time ping me a message.

[Drezza]

TyrannosauRoss Lex said:

If it's painful doing a deep breath in it's most likely either an intercostal muscle or, probably more likely, rib joint (costovetebral joint) issue (considering it's right on the spine - where your ribs join!). Time usually sorts these out, time length can vary significantly. Some people will get better within a couple of days, some times they just don't fully resolve without treatment, but that's pretty rare. On average 2-3 weeks, depending on severity.

So yep, rest up and obviously avoid exertion which then causes you to require deeper inspiration. If in the unlikely event it isn't resolved after some time ping me a message.

Appreciate the diagnosis! Will rest up then and fingers crossed it's a couple of days rather than a couple of weeks...

[RizzoTheRat]

I can't believe the difference a week makes.
Last Saturday I went out for my (not) parkrun wearing three tops, track suit trousers and trail shoes, keeping to crunchy white snow rather than the more translucent icy stuff. Weather forecast reckoned it was -4 with the wind chill making it feel like -10.
This morning I was in t-shirt and shorts as it was 15 degrees and sunny with a gentle breeze...and loads of people out and about.

[joshcowin]

TyrannosauRoss Lex said:

Well I did that same 0.25 mile loop round my block yesterday and I barely felt my rib pain at all. Maybe twice, and it was maybe a 1/10 so absolutely getting there. QL muscle still really tight but the rib itself is no longer tender. I did just 30mins on my indoor trainer, large easy, but a 2min effort at my previous max 5min effort (so hard, but not insane) and I had no repercussions. I think considering how much better it felt running yesterday compared to Sunday I should be good to go either next Tuesday or Thursday, I'm thinking probably Thursday but I may try 1/4-1/2 mile Tuesday.

As said, plan is to do 1/2 mile and providing no pain noticed, then 1.5-2 miles, providing no pain, then 3-4 with some strides. If all is still good then I know I'll be good to carry on.

Whilst this injury wasn't TOO painful, it sure is taking its time to recover! At least I've been able to do a small amount of cycling so it won't be like 5 weeks total rest.

Hope you can get out there on Tuesday and start building the distance up again!

[joshcowin]

RizzoTheRat said:

I can't believe the difference a week makes.
Last Saturday I went out for my (not) parkrun wearing three tops, track suit trousers and trail shoes, keeping to crunchy white snow rather than the more translucent icy stuff. Weather forecast reckoned it was -4 with the wind chill making it feel like -10.
This morning I was in t-shirt and shorts as it was 15 degrees and sunny with a gentle breeze...and loads of people out and about.

Last week I passed not one person, yesterday I passed loads and one guy was running with his top off!! As you say amazing the difference a week makes

[smn159]

Have felt a bit heavy legged for a couple of days now and it finally caught up with me on todays long run. Started struggling on the uphills after 10k but picked up the pace again as it flattened off, but then ran out of legs after 17k and just got progressively slower. Finally binned it off after 22k and walked the last mile back home.

Been experimenting with 2 harder weeks / 1 easier and this was the end of the second hard week.

Definite rest day tomorrow!

[john2443]

I don't know if this is a running thread question or Covid one (but I didn't find an appropriate Covid one)

I had an illness and a positive Covid test at the start of January, no coughing/loss of taste/temperature, more like a bad cold. A few days in bed and felt OK and since then have been very gradually getting my fitness back, but this weekend tried running and could only manage a minute of very slow jogging before I couldn't breath any more and I get breathless going up stairs.

Just wondered if anyone else had similar, if you got anything useful from the doctor or if it's just a case of waiting til it improves.

Tx

[TyrannosauRoss Lex]

john2443 said:

I don't know if this is a running thread question or Covid one (but I didn't find an appropriate Covid one)

I had an illness and a positive Covid test at the start of January, no coughing/loss of taste/temperature, more like a bad cold. A few days in bed and felt OK and since then have been very gradually getting my fitness back, but this weekend tried running and could only manage a minute of very slow jogging before I couldn't breath any more and I get breathless going up stairs.

Just wondered if anyone else had similar, if you got anything useful from the doctor or if it's just a case of waiting til it improves.

Tx

There is a seriously strong correlation between covid outcomes and vitamin D

http://c19vitamind.com/

consider supplementing an initial 1 off dose of 50,000iu in one hit followed by daily dose of 5000iu (if you can't find 5000iu tablets/capsules then just get 4000iu and just take 2 every 3-4 days).

VERY fresh researh is also indicating a deficit in glutathione in those who suffer from long-covid or severe initial symptoms. We can make glutathione ourselves but for many reasons it's easy to become deficient (certainly if we live in high pollution areas, fighting infection, eat poor quality foods etc).

I would try the vitamin D coupled with 400-500mg/day of magnesium citrate. If no change after 3-4 weeks then perhaps consider sertria liposomal glutathione, but that is fairly pricy as a supplement and there hasn't been the research yet to see if it helps, because it was only found people were low just a few weeks ago in one study.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32463221/

You could always get your vitamin D levels checked, it's easy enough. If, for some reason, your GP won't do it, let me know by PM I can write a letter to them easily enough with a few details. Just ignore what they say - they'll say "normal" is above 50nmol/L but you absolutely want to be a lot higher than that, which you won't be unless your supplementing.

Time will be your friend, but vitamin D and magnesium most certainly will be too.

[RizzoTheRat]

john2443 said:

I don't know if this is a running thread question or Covid one (but I didn't find an appropriate Covid one)

I had an illness and a positive Covid test at the start of January, no coughing/loss of taste/temperature, more like a bad cold. A few days in bed and felt OK and since then have been very gradually getting my fitness back, but this weekend tried running and could only manage a minute of very slow jogging before I couldn't breath any more and I get breathless going up stairs.

Just wondered if anyone else had similar, if you got anything useful from the doctor or if it's just a case of waiting til it improves.

Tx

I've never been a quick runner but I've only just got back up to the sort of pace I was doing before I had covid in early December, with a similar level of symptoms to you. I've also had to self isolate for 4 weeks worth of that, and crappy weather hasn't helped me motivate myself, so if I'd put my mind to it I could have got back to fitness quicker, but yeah, it knocks your fitness back a bit

[john2443]

TyrannosauRoss Lex said:

There is a seriously strong correlation between covid outcomes and vitamin D...

.

Thanks, will give it a go

[TyrannosauRoss Lex]

john2443 said:

TyrannosauRoss Lex said:

There is a seriously strong correlation between covid outcomes and vitamin D...

.

Thanks, will give it a go

Do the initial loading dose, trust me, it's not a problem. Equivalent to approx 70mins in the midday summer sun with 30% skin exposure (we make 20kiu in 30mins) so you've absolutely NO risk of overdose. In some studies they've given people 300,000iu in one hit. That'll boost your levels up more quickly. If it's going to help you'll know withing 2-3 weeks, maybe sooner.

[joshcowin]

Should all of us be on vitamin D? And is this year round?

[TyrannosauRoss Lex]

joshcowin said:

Should all of us be on vitamin D? And is this year round?

. To the first question, absolutely! We have approx 87% insufficiency rate in the UK in winter and something like 50% in summer. If you go out lots in summer (between 11am-3pm) without sun cream on for a while (make sure you never burn though!) then you can get away with it. I supplement all year (4000iu/day, I only weigh 54kgs) and my blood levels 3 months ago were 169nmol/L. Toxicity is supposedly over 500 so I'm nowhere near that.

Most people I've tested in the UK are between 30 and 75. NHS normal is 50 and above, but research shows at even 86nmol/L you absorb 65% more calcium than at 51nmol/L....so quite clearly 50 isn't enough.

Those with darker skin the deficiency rate in the UK is 100%. Yes, every single person. Elderly it's the same (skin can't make it as we'll), and the same for obese (it's stored in fat, less available for the blood). It's no coincidence large factors in covid are being obese, elderly and non-Caucasian..... Research has shown under 50nmol/L = 3.7x more likely to die from covid than above 50....!!!

I'm not just talking out of my backside, if anyone is interested I can upload some research article screenshots. You'd be amazed at the difference it can make. Most common deficiency symptoms are a bit of fatigue, general depression/mood (ever heard of seasonal affective disorder.....) and reduced threshold for pain. I try to get all of my patients on it, certainly those who have chronic pain and/or fatigue.

The only contraindication is for those who suffer with sarcoidosis. It is also incredibly cheap.

[joshcowin]

Thanks I will get on it!