The professional cycling thread

[Dr Imran T]

^^ I see your logic [if slightly tarring everyone with the same brush] as Astana are perhaps not the most 'cleanest' of teams. Having Vino at the helm probably doesn't help.

However, if he's riding clean that is a huge discredit for an otherwise very good rider.

Good point from other poster how people automatically assume excellent performances are dope related. We had this last year with Froome. Nothing against him so far...

[Vocal Minority]

And Wiggins in 2012.

BMWBen - I am sure you have your valid reasons, just observing a trend is all!

[anonymous-user]

Having known and pretty much unrepentant dopers running two of cycling's biggest teams in Saxo Tinkoff and Astana does the sport no good at all in trying to get rid of it's tarnished image.

[BMWBen]

Dr Imran T]^^ I see your logic [if slightly tarring everyone with the same brush said:

as Astana are perhaps not the most 'cleanest' of teams. Having Vino at the helm probably doesn't help.

However, if he's riding clean that is a huge discredit for an otherwise very good rider.

Good point from other poster how people automatically assume excellent performances are dope related. We had this last year with Froome. Nothing against him so far...

Hear me out here - if you care about the sport being clean, then you'd stay away from teams like Astana because they're part of the toxic "old school" of professional cycling. For younger up and coming riders it's not such an easy decision I expect, you go where you get an offer as you need to make a living, but for Nibali, no such excuse. If you don't care about the sport being clean, well, then you'd happily get involved with Vino at Astana. And if you don't care about it being clean...

Don't get me wrong, this is a wide brush I'm using and I know it. But cycling has a big problem and it persists because people like Nibali are happy to ride for teams like Astana. It's not really that important whether he's actually doping or not. The fact that people like Vino aren't completely cut out of the sport by the current top riders shows that there's still a massive problem.

I know that I wouldn't be happy working for a company where the CEO was an unrepentant fraudster/criminal. I think it's probably because of my moral values. I don't see this situation as being any different.

[JuniorD]

Generally, when it comes to doping in cycling, if there is a doubt, then there's usually no doubt. Also, history always repeats itself.

If there is new advantageous product or method that's not on the banned list, then they will do it. As professionals, they'd be mad not to.

[anonymous-user]

The Science in Sport calculations are quite interesting but can only be taken on face value, today is a rest day, Nibbles could go deep in to the red yesterday safe in the knowledge that he has all day to recover with the soigneurs today and a fairly flat day tomorrow where he can get dragged along by the team.

No GC contender will attack tomorrow because the chance of getting away is so low and the sprinters teams will be at the front for the last 25 kms or so driving the pace and setting it all up for their men for the finish.

[funkyrobot]

Bluequay said:

Having known and pretty much unrepentant dopers running two of cycling's biggest teams in Saxo Tinkoff and Astana does the sport no good at all in trying to get rid of it's tarnished image.

Indeed.

The riders themselves being clean is a different issue. But to have the likes of Astana and Saxo in the race with their directors is not a good decision.

All we need now is Manolo Saiz to come back with a rebranded ONCE/Liberty Seguros team.

[Rocksteadyeddie]

pablo said:

The Science in Sport calculations are quite interesting but can only be taken on face value, today is a rest day, Nibbles could go deep in to the red yesterday safe in the knowledge that he has all day to recover with the soigneurs today and a fairly flat day tomorrow where he can get dragged along by the team.

No GC contender will attack tomorrow because the chance of getting away is so low and the sprinters teams will be at the front for the last 25 kms or so driving the pace and setting it all up for their men for the finish.

I think there is some merit in this argument. That said, if true it makes it all the less impressive that he only took 15 seconds.

[anonymous-user]

BMWBen said:

Hear me out here - if you care about the sport being clean, then you'd stay away from teams like Astana because they're part of the toxic "old school" of professional cycling. For younger up and coming riders it's not such an easy decision I expect, you go where you get an offer as you need to make a living, but for Nibali, no such excuse. If you don't care about the sport being clean, well, then you'd happily get involved with Vino at Astana. And if you don't care about it being clean...

Don't get me wrong, this is a wide brush I'm using and I know it. But cycling has a big problem and it persists because people like Nibali are happy to ride for teams like Astana. It's not really that important whether he's actually doping or not. The fact that people like Vino aren't completely cut out of the sport by the current top riders shows that there's still a massive problem.

I know that I wouldn't be happy working for a company where the CEO was an unrepentant fraudster/criminal. I think it's probably because of my moral values. I don't see this situation as being any different.

I agree but there is only a finite number of pro tour teams and if you want to be a pro tour cyclist you have to ride with one of them, if the only one who wants you is Astana, then you ride for Astana... I wouldnt ride for Astana and Vino for the same reason that I wouldnt ride around with Sky on my chest following the phone hacking scandals and the links to Murdoch and his cronies but as a professional sportsman you have to follow the money.

The guy at Newcastle who said he didnt approve of their sponsr being Wonga was shouted down and made to play but I admire his moral standpoint, Wonga are scumbags too but the minute you put a price on being a shirt sponsor, you lose the right to complain about who pays up.

[Rocksteadyeddie]

BMWBen said:

Rocksteadyeddie said:

okgo said:

I need to test a few of those methods, personally I don't think they're worth the paper they're written on, but it should be easy enough to test that.

Do you mean the power calcs? Would be interesting to see how close the calculated numbers are to real life (and taking into account the accuracy of the underlying power meter - isn't SRM +/- 1.5% or something?). I think someone published and compared calculated power and SRM data for yesterday's stage. Will see if I can find it.

ETA Was @ammattipyoraily. Stage 10 5.85 km 8.58% Laurens Ten Dam ("67kg") 18:43 PWR meter: 384W / Est (calculated) 380.12W (-1.01%).

If true its a very good approximation.

Edited by Rocksteadyeddie on Tuesday 15th July 09:25

You might get lucky on a particular day - but you can't take the wind into account, and that makes a massive difference, even on a climb.

I hear you. I think the model does have an input for wind speed, although to what extent the input is accurate is another matter. Wind will also have a huge impact on some climbs - say Ventoux - which are exposed, and less so on others - say Alpe D'Huez - which turn back and forth through the hairpins, and are relatively well protected, at least in parts. The more SRM data that is released by the teams and riders and compared to the model output the better for the accuracy - and ultimately the extinction of - the calculations within the models. Until that time these sorts of calculations can help to colour the debate, if not to provide (any?) definitive answers.

[ewenm]

funkyrobot said:

Bluequay said:

Having known and pretty much unrepentant dopers running two of cycling's biggest teams in Saxo Tinkoff and Astana does the sport no good at all in trying to get rid of it's tarnished image.

Indeed.

The riders themselves being clean is a different issue. But to have the likes of Astana and Saxo in the race with their directors is not a good decision.

All we need now is Manolo Saiz to come back with a rebranded ONCE/Liberty Seguros team.

there is meant to be an announcement today about new sponsors for one of the teams...

[funkyrobot]

ewenm said:

there is meant to be an announcement today about new sponsors for one of the teams...

Manolo Saiz's new pro cycling team funded by an internet pharmaceutical business:

Drug-E.

[The Stiglet]

Cancellara out as well.

I wonder what the viewing figures will be like this year

[funkyrobot]

In other slightly related news:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/menchov-stripped-o...

I wondered where he had gone.

[jesusbuiltmycar]

The Stiglet said:

Cancellara out as well.

I wonder what the viewing figures will be like this year

Is he? Can't find anything about that - can you post a link?

[Dr Imran T]

The Stiglet said:

Cancellara out as well.

I wonder what the viewing figures will be like this year

what reason?

was reported that he was a bit downbeat this tour..

[okgo]

He is.

Concentrating on other goals this season aparently.

[jesusbuiltmycar]

Found a link

Cancellara Abandons

[Gizmoish]

Sad to see that. For someone with his palmares though, was it worth slogging over the Pyrenees and the Alps to maybe come in the top 3 of the time trial, almost certainly behind Tony Martin and maybe Porte?

[anonymous-user]

Assume Cancellara is eyeing up the hour record then before the worlds?