Car and cyclist meet

[budgie smuggler]

simon_harris said:

I am conflicted about if the child should have been on the road or the pavement, he certainly seemed more aware of the developing situation than I would have expected for a 5 year old child, but on balance if it were my child I think he would have been on the pavement.

But then the father would have to ride on the road, with the child out of his view.

Also the pacement is not a safe place to cycle, my dad reminded me the other day that when i was 4 or 5, i was riding my Mag Buster on the pavement with him walking behind me. A car came shooting out of it's driveway in reverse and knocked me off.

Edited by budgie smuggler on Tuesday 15th November 15:12

[WestyCarl]

budgie smuggler said:

Kes Arevo said:

WestyCarl said:

How can you possibly enjoy cycling when you're constantly "alert".

I ask this as an avid mountain biker who rides on the road as little as possible as it's just not enjoyable.

Same can be said of driving.

And equally what kind of boring mountain biking is WestyCarl doing where you don't need to be as alert as you do on the road?

Touche being alert to avoid trees / rocks at speed is different to watching out for cars coming up behind you.

More specifically when I ride from my house I have a long (for an MTB ) loop that includes bridleways / canal towpaths, forest tracks, I am much more relaxed on these than the few miles of road I cannot avoid.

[simon_harris]

budgie smuggler said:

But then the father would have to ride on the road, with the child out of his view.

Also the pacement is not a safe place to cycle, my dad reminded me the other day that when i was 4 or 5, i was riding my Mag Buster on the pavement with him walking behind me. A car came shooting out of it's driveway in reverse and knocked me off.

Edited by budgie smuggler on Tuesday 15th November 15:12

that is a very fair point.

[Julian Scott]

Donbot said:

Julian Scott said:

Donbot said:

Julian Scott said:

Donbot said:

Yep, lots of things could happen. Best stay off the roads if a car going past with space at just above walking speed is that dangerous.

"Just above walking speed". Brilliant.

I guess you tell your wife that this |----------------| is 9 inches too?

Look at how fast the car is moving past the parked cars when passing the kid. The video makes it look faster than it is.

Ah! Were you the driver? All makes sense now, on a lot of levels.

A video might foreshorten, or misrepresent speed, but that car was not doing 'just above walking speed'.

Well if you thought that looked horrifically dangerous you best avoid primary schools at the start or end of the day or you will have a nervous breakdown.

"Horrifically dangerous?" Has that been suggested anywhere? Other than your narrow, tiny mind?

[Julian Scott]

SteveStrange said:

Julian Scott said:

Donbot said:

Julian Scott said:

Donbot said:

Yep, lots of things could happen. Best stay off the roads if a car going past with space at just above walking speed is that dangerous.

"Just above walking speed". Brilliant.

I guess you tell your wife that this |----------------| is 9 inches too?

Look at how fast the car is moving past the parked cars when passing the kid. The video makes it look faster than it is.

Ah! Were you the driver? All makes sense now, on a lot of levels.

A video might foreshorten, or misrepresent speed, but that car was not doing 'just above walking speed'.

In your opinion. Just like in others opinions, the car IS doing walking speed. Unless you have objective evidence, of course.

Walking speed, so 3mph? OK...... <whoosh>

[Julian Scott]

SteveStrange said:

Julian Scott said:

SteveStrange said:

Julian Scott said:

TheInternet said:

The excessive victim mentality from some cyclists is tiresome and unhelpful, and arguably dangerous.

You are right, no question. But the victim mentality is matched at least pound-for-pound by the entitlement mentality by some drivers.

Alas, the latter is more dangerous and has far greater chance to cause serious injury or death.

FWIW, I'm an avid cyclist that abhors the superiority complex some cyclist possess - often the helmet-cam brigade - but whilst they are a pathetic annoyance, the aggression mixed with dire driving we see on the roads is the aspect that is dangerous.

I did a 120km loop on Sunday, all on quiet roads. I got almost knocked off twice (my having to take immediate evasive action to avoid it) - both times I caught up with the driver, both times the driver simply hadn't seen me (and my 3 friends) - all friendlily addressed and apologised, but it does demonstrate the danger on the road.

Something doesn't seem right with 4 of you not being seen by a driver at a given time, twice, and having to take avoiding action. That's not meant to be "victim blaming" but it does sound odd.

I'd suggest if you think two incidents in 120km is excessive and odd, you perhaps don't ride outdoors a great deal.

Read what I wrote. I think that incidents where 4 cyclists, in a group, are not spotted twice in a single ride out, and where you (all?) have to take avoiding action is odd. (Caveat: I assume this was during daylight hours, or if at night that you all had lights)

I ride outdoors a lot, and quite often with up to 3 kids (both for school "runs" and for leisure). Sometimes I take a motorbike, but obvs without the kids. I don't have these incidents. I (genuinely) wonder why, if it's such a common occurrence?

4 of us, 2 x 2. At around 12pm, bright sunshine. It's not a common occurrence, but it certainly isn't unusual for that sort of thing to happen twice in 120km.

[Julian Scott]

WestyCarl said:

Julian Scott said:

trails said:

Julian Scott said:

I'd suggest if you think two incidents in 120km is excessive and odd, you perhaps don't ride outdoors a great deal.

Just curious, do you wear any hi-vis gear?

White helmet, bright orange Spatz jersey, white shoes. I wasn't camouflaged!

But having two people pull into my path in 120km is not out of the ordinary.

How can you possibly enjoy cycling when you're constantly "alert".

I ask this as an avid mountain biker who rides on the road as little as possible as it's just not enjoyable.

Two 10 second incidents during an almost 4 hour ride. It's really not a huge issue. I have to be far more alert when riding off-road.

[Julian Scott]

simon_harris said:

budgie smuggler said:

But then the father would have to ride on the road, with the child out of his view.

Also the pacement is not a safe place to cycle, my dad reminded me the other day that when i was 4 or 5, i was riding my Mag Buster on the pavement with him walking behind me. A car came shooting out of it's driveway in reverse and knocked me off.

Edited by budgie smuggler on Tuesday 15th November 15:12

that is a very fair point.

And you are more likely to get 'doored' riding on the nearside of a car on the pavement, then riding on the offside of the car on the road - especially if (as with this video) you leave a safe gap.

[stinkyspanner]

The driver was very probably in the wrong here, but I'm also aware that camera footage can alter perspective. However, the parent is a self righteous clot for putting their most precious possession in a dangerous situation, regardless of the rights and wrongs.
I see it constantly in London, parents on those ridiculous butcher bike things with tiny kids pre-packaged in their coffin on the front of it as the eejit rider barges through traffic. Parents using a pushchair as if it has some kind of force-field around it and just walking into moving traffic.. I just can't fathom the mentality, I would never in a million years put my kids in those kind of needlessly dangerous situations.

[FourGears]

Julian Scott said:

You are right, no question. But the victim mentality is matched at least pound-for-pound by the entitlement mentality by some drivers.

Alas, the latter is more dangerous and has far greater chance to cause serious injury or death.

FWIW, I'm an avid cyclist that abhors the superiority complex some cyclist possess - often the helmet-cam brigade - but whilst they are a pathetic annoyance, the aggression mixed with dire driving we see on the roads is the aspect that is dangerous.

I did a 120km loop on Sunday, all on quiet roads. I got almost knocked off twice (my having to take immediate evasive action to avoid it) - both times I caught up with the driver, both times the driver simply hadn't seen me (and my 3 friends) - all friendlily addressed and apologised, but it does demonstrate the danger on the road.

I wonder what thr solution is to stop the driver and cyclist stand off?

I do get frustrated with cyclists at times as an example we were driving along a national speed limit country road and came across a cyclist. Now I was well under the limit and saw him well in advance. If I had rounded a corner at 60 and he was in front that would have been quite nasty.

Also I had the pleasure of following him at 15mph for a few miles as he didn't want to slow down at some of the passing points so I could overtake him. I was surprised by that as a little swere to the left a quick dab on the brakes and I would have been past. Perhaps he felt safer with a car behind him?

[trails]

FourGears said:

I wonder what thr solution is to stop the driver and cyclist stand off?

I do get frustrated with cyclists at times as an example we were driving along a national speed limit country road and came across a cyclist. Now I was well under the limit and saw him well in advance. If I had rounded a corner at 60 and he was in front that would have been quite nasty.

Also I had the pleasure of following him at 15mph for a few miles as he didn't want to slow down at some of the passing points so I could overtake him. I was surprised by that as a little swere to the left a quick dab on the brakes and I would have been past. Perhaps he felt safer with a car behind him?

Oh dear

[Donbot]

Julian Scott said:

Donbot said:

Julian Scott said:

Donbot said:

Julian Scott said:

Donbot said:

Yep, lots of things could happen. Best stay off the roads if a car going past with space at just above walking speed is that dangerous.

"Just above walking speed". Brilliant.

I guess you tell your wife that this |----------------| is 9 inches too?

Look at how fast the car is moving past the parked cars when passing the kid. The video makes it look faster than it is.

Ah! Were you the driver? All makes sense now, on a lot of levels.

A video might foreshorten, or misrepresent speed, but that car was not doing 'just above walking speed'.

Well if you thought that looked horrifically dangerous you best avoid primary schools at the start or end of the day or you will have a nervous breakdown.

"Horrifically dangerous?" Has that been suggested anywhere? Other than your narrow, tiny mind?

Again

People are saying that the driver put that kid in mortal danger.

[Solocle]

WestyCarl said:

Touche being alert to avoid trees / rocks at speed is different to watching out for cars coming up behind you.

More specifically when I ride from my house I have a long (for an MTB ) loop that includes bridleways / canal towpaths, forest tracks, I am much more relaxed on these than the few miles of road I cannot avoid.

At one extreme I didn't have to be alert here, basically at all. It's the A31 just down from the end of the M27... but I got on the road about a minute before it got shut for planned works

Trunk road tarmac = basically no need to be dodging potholes. Always keep an eye out, just in case, but there were none. I really could zone out and focus on riding the route as fast as possible.

And at the end of the day, that's what I generally enjoy doing. I like covering distance from A to B. To identify a place a long way away and have the satisfaction of getting there under my own power. The last properly long ride I did was a blast along the A30 to London.

Don't get me wrong, I do other stuff, like Veloviewer tiling. But distance is my bread and butter, e.g. this weekend riding up to Chepstow. The paths I did use, the Two Tunnels and the Bristol-Bath, were well surfaced. But they were still slow going with a lot of pedestrians around (I'm also not in shape atm).

For the London one, I'd simply never have got there on minor roads, let alone off road. The A30 isn't the quietest road, but, as long distance traffic has the A303/M3, I'm quite happy on it off peak.
A grand day out

[WhiskyDisco]

Vipers said:

Your interpretation not Ashley’s, unless I missed it.

Agree for want of a better word the car driver is a dick.

Yews sorry, it's my iterpretation of the video - the driver was not taking account of more vulnerable road users. I've experienced it myself as a cyclist - the most extreme with tipper trucl drivers.

[Julian Scott]

FourGears said:

Julian Scott said:

You are right, no question. But the victim mentality is matched at least pound-for-pound by the entitlement mentality by some drivers.

Alas, the latter is more dangerous and has far greater chance to cause serious injury or death.

FWIW, I'm an avid cyclist that abhors the superiority complex some cyclist possess - often the helmet-cam brigade - but whilst they are a pathetic annoyance, the aggression mixed with dire driving we see on the roads is the aspect that is dangerous.

I did a 120km loop on Sunday, all on quiet roads. I got almost knocked off twice (my having to take immediate evasive action to avoid it) - both times I caught up with the driver, both times the driver simply hadn't seen me (and my 3 friends) - all friendlily addressed and apologised, but it does demonstrate the danger on the road.

I wonder what thr solution is to stop the driver and cyclist stand off?

I do get frustrated with cyclists at times as an example we were driving along a national speed limit country road and came across a cyclist. Now I was well under the limit and saw him well in advance. If I had rounded a corner at 60 and he was in front that would have been quite nasty.

Also I had the pleasure of following him at 15mph for a few miles as he didn't want to slow down at some of the passing points so I could overtake him. I was surprised by that as a little swere to the left a quick dab on the brakes and I would have been past. Perhaps he felt safer with a car behind him?

Two small points. If you'd rounded a corner, you have adjusted your speed to be able to stop in the distance you could see. What if around this mystical blind corner on a NSL road there has been a stationary truck. Or ambulance tending to an RTA?

Secondly, you followed the cyclist at 15mph for 'a few miles'? Really?? You wilfully sat behind a cyclist for over 12 minutes, with no opportunity to overtake on a road safe enough to be a 60/NSL? And a 60 limit/NSL road with passing places? Really?

I appreciate that your journey was more important, and that he should have therefore broken his cadence and effort to allow you past - but maybe he thought you would have the driver skill to pass a slow moving cyclist on a NSL single carriageway road, unless you were drivng a steam-roller?

[Julian Scott]

WhiskyDisco said:

Vipers said:

Your interpretation not Ashley’s, unless I missed it.

Agree for want of a better word the car driver is a dick.

Yews sorry, it's my iterpretation of the video - the driver was not taking account of more vulnerable road users. I've experienced it myself as a cyclist - the most extreme with tipper trucl drivers.

I actually find truck drivers to be about the best drivers toward cyclists on the road, giving great room, holding all back, I've even had loads of instances where a truck has stuck behind me to protect me.

[gangzoom]

Solocle said:

At one extreme I didn't have to be alert here, basically at all. It's the A31 just down from the end of the M27... but I got on the road about a minute before it got shut for planned works

Trunk road tarmac = basically no need to be dodging potholes. Always keep an eye out, just in case, but there were none. I really could zone out and focus on riding the route as fast as possible.

Dual carriageway at the end of a M-way.......You are madder than me!!

You have to slow down for potholes etc, but 1 second of any driver been distracted by a phone/kid/snack and you are gone. Closing speeds must be over 40mph+ between a car and a pedal bike even if you are doing 20mph.

I don't mind taking risks on my pedal bike, there are limits though......dual carriageways are the limit for me!

[SteveStrange]

Julian Scott said:

FourGears said:

Julian Scott said:

You are right, no question. But the victim mentality is matched at least pound-for-pound by the entitlement mentality by some drivers.

Alas, the latter is more dangerous and has far greater chance to cause serious injury or death.

FWIW, I'm an avid cyclist that abhors the superiority complex some cyclist possess - often the helmet-cam brigade - but whilst they are a pathetic annoyance, the aggression mixed with dire driving we see on the roads is the aspect that is dangerous.

I did a 120km loop on Sunday, all on quiet roads. I got almost knocked off twice (my having to take immediate evasive action to avoid it) - both times I caught up with the driver, both times the driver simply hadn't seen me (and my 3 friends) - all friendlily addressed and apologised, but it does demonstrate the danger on the road.

I wonder what thr solution is to stop the driver and cyclist stand off?

I do get frustrated with cyclists at times as an example we were driving along a national speed limit country road and came across a cyclist. Now I was well under the limit and saw him well in advance. If I had rounded a corner at 60 and he was in front that would have been quite nasty.

Also I had the pleasure of following him at 15mph for a few miles as he didn't want to slow down at some of the passing points so I could overtake him. I was surprised by that as a little swere to the left a quick dab on the brakes and I would have been past. Perhaps he felt safer with a car behind him?

Two small points. If you'd rounded a corner, you have adjusted your speed to be able to stop in the distance you could see. What if around this mystical blind corner on a NSL road there has been a stationary truck. Or ambulance tending to an RTA?

Secondly, you followed the cyclist at 15mph for 'a few miles'? Really?? You wilfully sat behind a cyclist for over 12 minutes, with no opportunity to overtake on a road safe enough to be a 60/NSL? And a 60 limit/NSL road with passing places? Really?

I appreciate that your journey was more important, and that he should have therefore broken his cadence and effort to allow you past - but maybe he thought you would have the driver skill to pass a slow moving cyclist on a NSL single carriageway road, unless you were drivng a steam-roller?

Why are all the pro-cycling gang always so supercilious? Do you think using such condescending language helps your case?

And regarding the overtake, if the cyclist has adopted the "primary position" then they can pretty much dictate when someone can overtake, by removing/minimising the required 1.5m gap the responsible motorist is obliged to leave. Unless you're suggesting this gap should be reduced at will?

[Julian Scott]

SteveStrange said:

Julian Scott said:

FourGears said:

Julian Scott said:

You are right, no question. But the victim mentality is matched at least pound-for-pound by the entitlement mentality by some drivers.

Alas, the latter is more dangerous and has far greater chance to cause serious injury or death.

FWIW, I'm an avid cyclist that abhors the superiority complex some cyclist possess - often the helmet-cam brigade - but whilst they are a pathetic annoyance, the aggression mixed with dire driving we see on the roads is the aspect that is dangerous.

I did a 120km loop on Sunday, all on quiet roads. I got almost knocked off twice (my having to take immediate evasive action to avoid it) - both times I caught up with the driver, both times the driver simply hadn't seen me (and my 3 friends) - all friendlily addressed and apologised, but it does demonstrate the danger on the road.

I wonder what thr solution is to stop the driver and cyclist stand off?

I do get frustrated with cyclists at times as an example we were driving along a national speed limit country road and came across a cyclist. Now I was well under the limit and saw him well in advance. If I had rounded a corner at 60 and he was in front that would have been quite nasty.

Also I had the pleasure of following him at 15mph for a few miles as he didn't want to slow down at some of the passing points so I could overtake him. I was surprised by that as a little swere to the left a quick dab on the brakes and I would have been past. Perhaps he felt safer with a car behind him?

Two small points. If you'd rounded a corner, you have adjusted your speed to be able to stop in the distance you could see. What if around this mystical blind corner on a NSL road there has been a stationary truck. Or ambulance tending to an RTA?

Secondly, you followed the cyclist at 15mph for 'a few miles'? Really?? You wilfully sat behind a cyclist for over 12 minutes, with no opportunity to overtake on a road safe enough to be a 60/NSL? And a 60 limit/NSL road with passing places? Really?

I appreciate that your journey was more important, and that he should have therefore broken his cadence and effort to allow you past - but maybe he thought you would have the driver skill to pass a slow moving cyclist on a NSL single carriageway road, unless you were drivng a steam-roller?

Why are all the pro-cycling gang always so supercilious? Do you think using such condescending language helps your case?

And regarding the overtake, if the cyclist has adopted the "primary position" then they can pretty much dictate when someone can overtake, by removing/minimising the required 1.5m gap the responsible motorist is obliged to leave. Unless you're suggesting this gap should be reduced at will?

It was sarcasm....the suggestion that the cyclist should have pulled in to let the driver past, and the anger that they didn't deserves sarcasm.

If..IF...IF...still dosen't explain how and why a driver would wilfully stay behind a cyclist for over 12 minutes on a road suitable to be a NSL/60 limit road.

[trails]

SteveStrange said:

Julian Scott said:

FourGears said:

Julian Scott said:

You are right, no question. But the victim mentality is matched at least pound-for-pound by the entitlement mentality by some drivers.

Alas, the latter is more dangerous and has far greater chance to cause serious injury or death.

FWIW, I'm an avid cyclist that abhors the superiority complex some cyclist possess - often the helmet-cam brigade - but whilst they are a pathetic annoyance, the aggression mixed with dire driving we see on the roads is the aspect that is dangerous.

I did a 120km loop on Sunday, all on quiet roads. I got almost knocked off twice (my having to take immediate evasive action to avoid it) - both times I caught up with the driver, both times the driver simply hadn't seen me (and my 3 friends) - all friendlily addressed and apologised, but it does demonstrate the danger on the road.

I wonder what thr solution is to stop the driver and cyclist stand off?

I do get frustrated with cyclists at times as an example we were driving along a national speed limit country road and came across a cyclist. Now I was well under the limit and saw him well in advance. If I had rounded a corner at 60 and he was in front that would have been quite nasty.

Also I had the pleasure of following him at 15mph for a few miles as he didn't want to slow down at some of the passing points so I could overtake him. I was surprised by that as a little swere to the left a quick dab on the brakes and I would have been past. Perhaps he felt safer with a car behind him?

Two small points. If you'd rounded a corner, you have adjusted your speed to be able to stop in the distance you could see. What if around this mystical blind corner on a NSL road there has been a stationary truck. Or ambulance tending to an RTA?

Secondly, you followed the cyclist at 15mph for 'a few miles'? Really?? You wilfully sat behind a cyclist for over 12 minutes, with no opportunity to overtake on a road safe enough to be a 60/NSL? And a 60 limit/NSL road with passing places? Really?

I appreciate that your journey was more important, and that he should have therefore broken his cadence and effort to allow you past - but maybe he thought you would have the driver skill to pass a slow moving cyclist on a NSL single carriageway road, unless you were drivng a steam-roller?

Why are all the pro-cycling gang always so supercilious? Do you think using such condescending language helps your case?

And regarding the overtake, if the cyclist has adopted the "primary position" then they can pretty much dictate when someone can overtake, by removing/minimising the required 1.5m gap the responsible motorist is obliged to leave. Unless you're suggesting this gap should be reduced at will?

Fourgears does sound like he or she fabricated the scenario to have a moan...so a bit of healthy scepticism is perhaps appropriate here. Maybe