Are wheel spokes covered under warranty?
Discussion
mk1fan said:
"And the truth will set you free!"
I would say you have completely ignored your physical requirements when buying the bike.
Basically what you have bought is a decent, entry level, lightweight, XC mountain bike - one that wouldn't be too out of place on the start line of a race. Designed around the 'Average Rider' who weighs 12-stone (76Kgs ish). You weigh 17-stone (110Kgs). That's 45% more. Does it really need explaining as to why you're breaking the rear wheel?
As for producing a lot of 'torque' well that's just a polite way of saying you're too fat for the wheel. If you could really produce enough torque to snap spokes then you would be either riding round France at this point in time or preparing for a trip to China next month.
The bike you have bought is perfectly capable of being used and is certainly fit for purpose - for someone of 'average' size. YOU, however, should have bought something 'burlier'. For example at GT Ruckass or Kona Hoss.
Your lack of understanding of the current mtb market is demonstrated by your completely inaccurate analogy. My analogy was right. You've gone from a workhorse to a flighty racehorse.
It has been suggested by market commentators that the current mtb scene is slightly disjointed. It wasn't that long ago that everyone was riding exactly the same trails on rigid bikes with semi-slick tyres. It didn't matter that you had no suspension. Nowadays, if the market is to be believed, you have to have at least 5-inches of travel front and back before you can attempt to go Trail riding.
One advantage of all this sub-division of our sport is that Manufacturers can produce more 'use-specific' bikes. They have such depth in the product range that you can have four bikes, made by the same manufacturer, in the same price bracket but all do a different job.
Now, I don't know why you decided to buy this particular bike. It's annoying beyond belief that you've stood in a shop, honestly (?) explained what you intend to do with the bike and they've suggeted a Cockhopper. It is totally unfit for YOU. That's completely different to the BIKE being not good enough for off road use.
To actually answer your question doesn't require much detail. You're breaking your rear wheel because YOU'RE to heavy for it. You could have a 44-spoke wheel built up but if a 250Kg man jumps around on it it'll break.
A more suitable wheel would, imo, have a 36-hole rim and be at least 21mm wide. I'd also run a 2.3 tyre. You shouldn't have issues with hubs.
I don't think you'll have any issues with the frame - my 17-stone mate rode an Orange E8 around Morzine last year without breaking it. I would also consider a fork upgrade to one with an air spring. That way you can set the correct 'spring rate' for your weight.
Here endth the lesson.
Man speaks truth. Coming from an ex cycle tech, 17 st is a lot on a Rockhopper's skinny wheels. I suggest you go and size yourself up for some handbuilt wheels at Chain Reaction or similar, go for 36 spokes and XM321 rims on hopes, straight spokes and you're away. Nice big tyres too.I would say you have completely ignored your physical requirements when buying the bike.
Basically what you have bought is a decent, entry level, lightweight, XC mountain bike - one that wouldn't be too out of place on the start line of a race. Designed around the 'Average Rider' who weighs 12-stone (76Kgs ish). You weigh 17-stone (110Kgs). That's 45% more. Does it really need explaining as to why you're breaking the rear wheel?
As for producing a lot of 'torque' well that's just a polite way of saying you're too fat for the wheel. If you could really produce enough torque to snap spokes then you would be either riding round France at this point in time or preparing for a trip to China next month.
The bike you have bought is perfectly capable of being used and is certainly fit for purpose - for someone of 'average' size. YOU, however, should have bought something 'burlier'. For example at GT Ruckass or Kona Hoss.
Your lack of understanding of the current mtb market is demonstrated by your completely inaccurate analogy. My analogy was right. You've gone from a workhorse to a flighty racehorse.
It has been suggested by market commentators that the current mtb scene is slightly disjointed. It wasn't that long ago that everyone was riding exactly the same trails on rigid bikes with semi-slick tyres. It didn't matter that you had no suspension. Nowadays, if the market is to be believed, you have to have at least 5-inches of travel front and back before you can attempt to go Trail riding.
One advantage of all this sub-division of our sport is that Manufacturers can produce more 'use-specific' bikes. They have such depth in the product range that you can have four bikes, made by the same manufacturer, in the same price bracket but all do a different job.
Now, I don't know why you decided to buy this particular bike. It's annoying beyond belief that you've stood in a shop, honestly (?) explained what you intend to do with the bike and they've suggeted a Cockhopper. It is totally unfit for YOU. That's completely different to the BIKE being not good enough for off road use.
To actually answer your question doesn't require much detail. You're breaking your rear wheel because YOU'RE to heavy for it. You could have a 44-spoke wheel built up but if a 250Kg man jumps around on it it'll break.
A more suitable wheel would, imo, have a 36-hole rim and be at least 21mm wide. I'd also run a 2.3 tyre. You shouldn't have issues with hubs.
I don't think you'll have any issues with the frame - my 17-stone mate rode an Orange E8 around Morzine last year without breaking it. I would also consider a fork upgrade to one with an air spring. That way you can set the correct 'spring rate' for your weight.
Here endth the lesson.
The Rockhopper rim is many times lighter that the rim on your previous bike. It will not be able to take the same amount of punishment.
By the way, your bike is not covered by any warrenty if you jump it (even a bit). Most cycle shops will look kindly on you if you snap something, but don't go in all guns blazing.
To the OP - In my (professional, its my job) opinion, mk1fan is right. Its great that your enjoying the bike and riding it. But you have to accept the limitations of strength.
Your shop are doing you a huge favour by replacing the wheel, so be grateful of it. I'm positive that they want you to be happy with the bike, any decent shop would.
But, take it easy on the new wheel, especially when its brand new. It will have been maching built and wont be the toughest - go easy and first and check the spoke tension after a few rides.
As for riding - are you standing up lots, and mashing on the pedals as hard as you can? This is very common amongst (I wont say beginners, and I'm not being patronising if this is stuff you already know) less experienced rider. Concentrate on your riding style. To go fast, you gotta start slow. Spin the cranks in easy gears. Stay seated on the climbs as long as possible. On the fun bits, concentrate on your lines, try and be as smooth as possible, use your legs and arms to let the bike move around beneath you.
In the future, if your still having problems, there are plenty of options for you, ask on here and theres a great knowledge base.
And a final point - yes, we all like to get a bit of 'hang time' on our rides. And no, I'm not condoning dishonesty.
But if you look in your manual, you will see that certain aspects of your riding could quite easily be be construed as the things found in the ' Warranty Void' section. So be careful what you say. Be nice to your shop.
Your shop are doing you a huge favour by replacing the wheel, so be grateful of it. I'm positive that they want you to be happy with the bike, any decent shop would.
But, take it easy on the new wheel, especially when its brand new. It will have been maching built and wont be the toughest - go easy and first and check the spoke tension after a few rides.
As for riding - are you standing up lots, and mashing on the pedals as hard as you can? This is very common amongst (I wont say beginners, and I'm not being patronising if this is stuff you already know) less experienced rider. Concentrate on your riding style. To go fast, you gotta start slow. Spin the cranks in easy gears. Stay seated on the climbs as long as possible. On the fun bits, concentrate on your lines, try and be as smooth as possible, use your legs and arms to let the bike move around beneath you.
In the future, if your still having problems, there are plenty of options for you, ask on here and theres a great knowledge base.
And a final point - yes, we all like to get a bit of 'hang time' on our rides. And no, I'm not condoning dishonesty.
But if you look in your manual, you will see that certain aspects of your riding could quite easily be be construed as the things found in the ' Warranty Void' section. So be careful what you say. Be nice to your shop.
Edited by snotrag on Wednesday 9th July 09:07
snotrag said:
To the OP - In my (professional, its my job) opinion, mk1fan is right. .... [/footnote]
Seems he is yes.But his replies were condescending and patronising, bit like the service you get at Halfords.
anyway....
Surely they should put SWL load ratings on these things?
And I'm not fat, cheeky feckers
I'm just BIG.Thanks for the constructive and informative responses...but not the other ones.
Oh and the bike was bought blind, over the phone.
Unfortunately there is no other way of doing it with the cycle2work scheme with Halfords, they don't physically stock Specialized stuff. I thought about going Evans or simialr to get a test ride, on the pretense of buying one, but thought best not to waste their time.
Unfortunately there is no other way of doing it with the cycle2work scheme with Halfords, they don't physically stock Specialized stuff. I thought about going Evans or simialr to get a test ride, on the pretense of buying one, but thought best not to waste their time.
Edited by dave_s13 on Wednesday 9th July 12:45
I can't beleive that they didn't ask you your weight when you ordered the bike. That's terrible. It's like buying a suit and not bothering to measure up. And the industry wonders why so many people complain about lack of customer service! C2W schemes are great but this just demonstrates that sometimes it's just best to go to your local independant LBS to get advice.
As for being patronising well, yes I am at times. But, at times, you have to be to get points accross. And plus there's always the chance that you could have been an American - in which case it's just standard practice.
As for being patronising well, yes I am at times. But, at times, you have to be to get points accross. And plus there's always the chance that you could have been an American - in which case it's just standard practice.
Hi, I've just been having a browse regarding my v similar problem.
In the last few months or so the rear wheel on my Rockhopper disc pro (2007) has starting pinging spokes a lot (the bike is 12 months old now)
my pb is coming home with 5 spokes snapped (and 3 separate buckles)
I have been fixing the spokes and truing myself its cheap at 60p each and easy to do.
the new spokes are slightly thicker and dont snap.
I am going to get a tougher back wheel set though.
Oh and i too have torque problem being 6 foot 8 the and 18 stone the torque i generate racing to the pie shop is emense!
In the last few months or so the rear wheel on my Rockhopper disc pro (2007) has starting pinging spokes a lot (the bike is 12 months old now)
my pb is coming home with 5 spokes snapped (and 3 separate buckles)
I have been fixing the spokes and truing myself its cheap at 60p each and easy to do.
the new spokes are slightly thicker and dont snap.
I am going to get a tougher back wheel set though.
Oh and i too have torque problem being 6 foot 8 the and 18 stone the torque i generate racing to the pie shop is emense!
Well I got the fixed wheel back a couple of weeks ago, only been out twice and they've fkin snapped again.
Fvk halfords, they are customer service cokjockeys, took 3 weeks to get the bloody thing sorted!
Off to the LBS for me for some thicker spokes it seems.
I assume the actual rim and hub are OK to re-use though? yes, no???
Fvk halfords, they are customer service cokjockeys, took 3 weeks to get the bloody thing sorted!
Off to the LBS for me for some thicker spokes it seems.
I assume the actual rim and hub are OK to re-use though? yes, no???
Yes and No.
The hub and rim will be fine but they don't have enough 'holes' to build a wheel strong enough for YOU. Don't bother to repair your wheel with thicker spokes go to your LBS and see what 36-hole wheels they have built up. A disc ready Deore hub built up to a Mavic XM321 won't be too expensive but should be strong enough to carry your weight.
Explain to them what type of riding you do and they should direct you to a suitable wheel. Write down what they suggest and post up the list.
If you buy front and back wheels you can always sell your old wheels on e-Bay to re-coup costs.
The hub and rim will be fine but they don't have enough 'holes' to build a wheel strong enough for YOU. Don't bother to repair your wheel with thicker spokes go to your LBS and see what 36-hole wheels they have built up. A disc ready Deore hub built up to a Mavic XM321 won't be too expensive but should be strong enough to carry your weight.
Explain to them what type of riding you do and they should direct you to a suitable wheel. Write down what they suggest and post up the list.
If you buy front and back wheels you can always sell your old wheels on e-Bay to re-coup costs.
mk1fan said:
Yes and No.
The hub and rim will be fine but they don't have enough 'holes' to build a wheel strong enough for YOU. Don't bother to repair your wheel with thicker spokes go to your LBS and see what 36-hole wheels they have built up. A disc ready Deore hub built up to a Mavic XM321 won't be too expensive but should be strong enough to carry your weight.
Explain to them what type of riding you do and they should direct you to a suitable wheel. Write down what they suggest and post up the list.
If you buy front and back wheels you can always sell your old wheels on e-Bay to re-coup costs.
Cheers,The hub and rim will be fine but they don't have enough 'holes' to build a wheel strong enough for YOU. Don't bother to repair your wheel with thicker spokes go to your LBS and see what 36-hole wheels they have built up. A disc ready Deore hub built up to a Mavic XM321 won't be too expensive but should be strong enough to carry your weight.
Explain to them what type of riding you do and they should direct you to a suitable wheel. Write down what they suggest and post up the list.
If you buy front and back wheels you can always sell your old wheels on e-Bay to re-coup costs.
Just rand Evans (they're open till 8 ya see).
He said to be looking at around 80 quid for a built up wheel that will be strong enough for my impressive pyhsique...no details on spec though....I assume that includes a tyre?
I was thinking should be more like 40-60 quid, was I wrong?
BTW shouldn't they be able to re-use my existing chainset (is that the right term), disc & tyre. There's nowt wrong with that lot?
Depends what the spec is as to cost. Go and have a look and note the spec hub and rim). No it won't include a tyre but the 2.1 you have should suffice for now although I'd recomend replacing it when it wears out with a 2.3. A 2.3 should just fit into the frame. Yes you can re-use your cassette, disc rotor and tyre. You shouldn't need a rim any wider than 21mm - if you do then you'll need a larger tyre as your current 2.1 (assumed) will be too narrow for a wider rim.
I would also visit you LBS too as getting the right wheel may mean getting a custom build and Evans are too expensive for that. Alternatively you could spec a set online from Merlin who are renowned for building good wheels.
I would also visit you LBS too as getting the right wheel may mean getting a custom build and Evans are too expensive for that. Alternatively you could spec a set online from Merlin who are renowned for building good wheels.
mate, do u work in a bike shop? If so can't u sort me out with one?
That way when it breaks i can come back on here and give u a proper roasting
Seriously, if you do, and you can then pm me a price. After all, you actually know what i need! Will go have a look at those merlin ones later, cheers.
That way when it breaks i can come back on here and give u a proper roasting
Seriously, if you do, and you can then pm me a price. After all, you actually know what i need! Will go have a look at those merlin ones later, cheers.
No I don't work in a bike shop.
I would suggest that one of these 36-hole rims http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?Mod... laced to either this http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?Mod... Deore or this http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?Mod... Deore XT one in the Sale.
An LBS may price match the parts if you get the wheel built there. Personally, I think double butted spokes are suitable however, your whell builder may recommend different. You maybe looking at £20 for spokes and nipples then another £20 to build it. That would be £80ish for a very hardy wheel.
I'm 14-stone and have run 32-hole XM521's rims with double butted spokes for two hard years with only a couple of re-tensions required.
ETA: The two hubs I linky'ed have loose bearings and cones not the cartridge bearings of 'flashier' brands. This is fine and very reliable but you will need to check them regularly and perhaps get them serviced - stripped, cleaned and regreased - once a year. Doing this they should last ages.
I would suggest that one of these 36-hole rims http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?Mod... laced to either this http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?Mod... Deore or this http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?Mod... Deore XT one in the Sale.
An LBS may price match the parts if you get the wheel built there. Personally, I think double butted spokes are suitable however, your whell builder may recommend different. You maybe looking at £20 for spokes and nipples then another £20 to build it. That would be £80ish for a very hardy wheel.
I'm 14-stone and have run 32-hole XM521's rims with double butted spokes for two hard years with only a couple of re-tensions required.
ETA: The two hubs I linky'ed have loose bearings and cones not the cartridge bearings of 'flashier' brands. This is fine and very reliable but you will need to check them regularly and perhaps get them serviced - stripped, cleaned and regreased - once a year. Doing this they should last ages.
Edited by mk1fan on Tuesday 5th August 22:41
dave_s13 said:
Well I got the fixed wheel back a couple of weeks ago, only been out twice and they've fkin snapped again.
Fvk halfords, they are customer service cokjockeys, took 3 weeks to get the bloody thing sorted!
Off to the LBS for me for some thicker spokes it seems.
I assume the actual rim and hub are OK to re-use though? yes, no???
Definately LBS rather than halfords, you need to find someone who can actually build a wheel. Generally spokes snap not through overload but through fatigue. Do not get plain gauge spokes, they will fail sooner than the butted ones (thinner in the middle). Fvk halfords, they are customer service cokjockeys, took 3 weeks to get the bloody thing sorted!
Off to the LBS for me for some thicker spokes it seems.
I assume the actual rim and hub are OK to re-use though? yes, no???
Once spokes start snapping then the only realistic solution is to replace them all, otherwise they will just keep on snapping as the unreplaced ones have been subject to the same loads as the ones that have snapped.
If you got your rim and hub built well with DT Swiss 15/16g comp butted spokes it may be enough, but if it isn't then you've wasted the spokes. So it may be wise to change to a downhill spec rim like the mavic 721. Spokes and rim plus build will be 70-80quid at your typical LBS I imagine.
Unlike mk1fan I think 32 spoke wheels with downhill rims are easily strong enough for a rough 17st rider, but then I'm much the same weight as you, and run 32spoke wheels on both my bikes, mavic 521 rims (old equivalent to the 721) on the rigid and a 521 rim rear, 519 rim front on the full sus.
Having a shufty at Merlin cycles website suggests they do a built wheel with XT hub, 721 rim and DT comp spokes for 75quid, this sounds pretty reasonable, plus I guess you could go for a 36 spoke build if you really want a tandem wheel on your bike
FWIW I ended up rebuliding my last set of merlin bought wheels with fresh DT spokes due to failure, however they were a ultracheap special offer wheelset built with sapim plain gauge spokes, so not really judgeable against their usual standard.
dave_s13 said:
Actually saying that, can someone recommend me a good LBS in Leeds?
Leeds you say... *personally* I like Edinburgh Bike Co-op in Chapel Allerton - bought 2 bikes there, done a maintenance course there, and (apart from a warranty issue that took slightly longer than I hoped to resolve) have not had any problems with popping in and sorting out a few issues; I think snotrag ^^^ used to work at EBC. Stif in Headingley is also pretty good, but I find it very busy at most times and, since I'm not the most knowledgeable chap, find it a bit 'rushed' to work through everything you might need. Lovely Orange bikes in there though Woodrup Cycles on Kirkstall Road are pleasant enough.
And there is (used to be?) one chappy at Halfords off Sweet Street who was very helpful, but to be honest I think because he was bored off his b
ks setting up kids bikes And yes, it's been raining - don't be a puff, it's character building
Hi, yes, I work there, I've done it in the Summers between University. Dave - all good advice they've given you. I cant remember exactly how much we charge for wheel building, but thats about right. We could certainly sort you out with something along the lines of whats been reccomended. Not sure what we'll have in stock, but we can get anything in for you. XM321 andDeore 36 hole would be a good, strong wheel. Our wheel builders good aswell.
Pop in if you can and have a word, My names Simon, although on a weekend you'll find that we are all running about like blue arse flies so you'll have to pin someone down for a chat!
Hope you get sorted. And no, I'm not on commission
Simon
I'd like to come over to yours with the bits I've got, leave em for the day and pick up later on.....how's friday, I've got the day off and can come over about 9.30-10 ish? Is that possible?
Just to clarify, the rear casette and rotor are fine and the tyre has useful life left so will stick with that too.
The items mk1fan has quoted above sound good to me.
Not messing you about, this is a firm order for some work.
I'll pm you my mob number in a bit, if you need anymore info.
Cheers mate
oh, what's your address??
I'd like to come over to yours with the bits I've got, leave em for the day and pick up later on.....how's friday, I've got the day off and can come over about 9.30-10 ish? Is that possible?
Just to clarify, the rear casette and rotor are fine and the tyre has useful life left so will stick with that too.
The items mk1fan has quoted above sound good to me.
Not messing you about, this is a firm order for some work.
I'll pm you my mob number in a bit, if you need anymore info.
Cheers mate
oh, what's your address??
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