Handbuilt MTB wheels - recommendations please

[g_stacey]

Wheels are not on a bike yet. They are actually my sons, but may find there way on to my Stumpjumper. He usually nicks' my wheels! Many bikes between us and wheels sets that will run tubeless but have never bothered going tubeless, have spent a lot of time watching people getting tyres to seat. Only my opinion.

[Gooby]

snotrag said:

The problem with UST is restricted tyre choice though. Whereas with the no-tubes you can run a much, much eider range of tyres. (as I have done with great success)

eh? You can still run tubes on a UST hoop...

[timnoyce]

I'd come up with a price around £220. Not sure you'd get near that with Hope hubs. My main reason for doing it is that I want to build my own wheels, I might change my mind after christmas if I can find some good deals about though.

[snotrag]

Gooby said:

snotrag said:

The problem with UST is restricted tyre choice though if you want to run tubeless. Whereas with the no-tubes you can run a much, much eider range of tyres. (as I have done with great success)

eh? You can still run tubes on a UST hoop...

Your quite right. clarification of what I meant in bold..

but - why on earth would you buy UST rims, (which are considerably more expensive than regular unsealed rims) or ZTR's for that matter, and put inner tubes in them?

UST rims are actually pretty heavy so by running them with tubs your probably ending up with a HEAVIER wheelset then if you'd just bought cheap 319 mavics or whatever.

[a11y_m]

Another recommendation for Hope Hoops here.

I previously bought handbuilt hope hub/mavic rimmed wheels from Merlin and still rate them extremely highly, but the value for money of Hope Hoops can't be beaten. Only downside is you can't get Hope Hoops in pimpy colours

[Rouleur]

Andy Kyffin builds bomb-proof wheels, although I'm not sure whether he normally sells custom ones by mail order.

http://www.nwmtb.com/index.asp

[Gooby]

snotrag said:

Gooby said:

snotrag said:

The problem with UST is restricted tyre choice though if you want to run tubeless. Whereas with the no-tubes you can run a much, much eider range of tyres. (as I have done with great success)

eh? You can still run tubes on a UST hoop...

Your quite right. clarification of what I meant in bold..

but - why on earth would you buy UST rims, (which are considerably more expensive than regular unsealed rims) or ZTR's for that matter, and put inner tubes in them?

UST rims are actually pretty heavy so by running them with tubs your probably ending up with a HEAVIER wheelset then if you'd just bought cheap 319 mavics or whatever.

because you can run tubeless and be reasonably puncture free. You can run at lower pressures and enjoy more grip. Making a non UST hoop or even a standard hoop tubeless will add weight. Overall going tubeless with a propper UST hoop will weigh less.

[g_stacey]

"Run at lower pressure and get more grip" Its the lower pressure part of the phrase that puts me off running tubeless. If I'm riding an mtb race, 12 hour or Mayhem type team event, I dont want low pressure, they are always a few climbs which are hard enough, I dont want to wallow up them. If I'm riding Afan or similar you could say youre roughly climbing or descending 80% of the time. I want my tyres to be at the right pressure when I'm flying downhill. I dont mind slipping and scrabbling occasionally uphill. Only my opinion, again. So what pressure to you guys ride tubeless at?
G

[snotrag]

Gooby said:

snotrag said:

Gooby said:

snotrag said:

The problem with UST is restricted tyre choice though if you want to run tubeless. Whereas with the no-tubes you can run a much, much eider range of tyres. (as I have done with great success)

eh? You can still run tubes on a UST hoop...

Your quite right. clarification of what I meant in bold..

but - why on earth would you buy UST rims, (which are considerably more expensive than regular unsealed rims) or ZTR's for that matter, and put inner tubes in them?

UST rims are actually pretty heavy so by running them with tubs your probably ending up with a HEAVIER wheelset then if you'd just bought cheap 319 mavics or whatever.

because you can run tubeless and be reasonably puncture free. You can run at lower pressures and enjoy more grip. Making a non UST hoop or even a standard hoop tubeless will add weight. Overall going tubeless with a propper UST hoop will weigh less.

Hang on your now saying the opposite to what you originally said...?

your original statement was you can still run tubes on a UST rim. My reply was - whats the point.

ZTR rims ARE Proper tubeless rims. And they are lighter than UST rims, which was a proprietary system designed by mavic, requiring the use of the proprietary UST branded tyres.

I'm aware that the sealing system with a good UST setup is better.

But using rims such as the ZTR range (among others) has so many other benefits, one of which is massively improved tyre choice (IE the vast majority of tyres available other than a few that have proven to be a bit too leaky).


G-Stacy.

do some research into Tubeless.

For a given pressure, a tubeless setup has a lower rolling resistance than a tubed setup, as part of this resistance comes from the frictional force between the tyre and inner tube as they squirm abotu as you roll over them.

A good tubeless setup gives you lower rollign resistance, PLUS the abiltiy to run a wider range of pressures which offer you increased grip and comfort. There is a noticeable difference in ride quality (Just like changing from a nice compliant 60 section car tyre to a 35 section BMW runflat).

The other benefit is tubeless is a far lower chance of punctures.

You cannot pinch flat. As there is no tube to pinch.

The other type of puncture, caused usually by thorns, is usually self-sealed as you ride along and not even noticed.

The only thign you are susceptible are catastrophic tyre failures, such as ripping the sidewall off a rock.

But of course, if you do that, an inner tube wouldnt have prevented it anyway.

The relative extra fiddling for serial tyre swappers is a drawback, as is the high initial cost of the rims.

I believe it really is the wayforward if you want a high perf

[g_stacey]

Snotrag,
Maybe tubeless doesnt suit my riding. I'm not bothered about comfort, and the amount of tyres I've ripped sidewalls in lately would have cost me a fortune. I follow the tube / tyre resistance bit, but I really have a hang up with soft tyres! I'll do some googling though. Ripped this tyre 2 years ago in Verbier, still going strong!

[Floor Tom]

To the OP. I would get Hope hoops. The negative point of them not being avaliable in bling colours is actually a positive as it stops you from looking like a twunt . Next decide if you want Tubeless or not. If you do then get the Stans rims (I would say 819's. You can get good UST tyres and they are easy to inflate and reliable. Having said that I have never used Stans rims, they may be just as good), if not then I'd say probably 719's.

Now my thoughts on tubeless.
I ride a lot of DH and race a fair amount. I used them for a year of two back when I didn't race as much but for me and DH they are not an option. Changing them in a muddy field and getting sealant all over the place is horrible (I have seen a lot of my friends doing this and it does not look fun) and also Maxxis UST downhill tyres don't seem to be up to it with sidewalls ripping regularly. Michelin are comming back next year though and their old tyres were better, you still have the issue with changing them though.
I do however use them on the XC bike. At the moment I have Hope Pro IIs with Mavic 819 rims and 2.35 LUST Maxxis Ignitors. They are great and I have never had any problems with them. The fact that there is no tube to stop them deforming means that for the same pressure as a tubed setup you will get more grip when the tyre deforms over the small bumps. So either you get more grip for the same rolling resistance or you get the same grip with a higher pressure (and hence lowwer rolling resistance). I have also never punctured a tyre on my XC bike which I hated when I used tubes (not regular but very annoying when it does happen).
To Sum up I would say, if you are a racer and dont have x amount of wheel sets for your various tyre choices then they are too much of a pain in the arse. If you are a fit and forget weekend warrior (I fall into this catagory for XC riding) than they are magic and well worth the extra outlay. Fitting UST tyres is easy and you only have to do it when your old tyres are worn out which is not all that often.

[smack]

I have built plenty of wheels, and as far as I am aware, all are still in use. Well, with the exception of a mate who rode his bike from the top to the bottom of South America, but then again he did kill about everything on his bike.

A good wheel truing stand makes your life so much easier, and the end product (ie. the wheel) is usually better. I have the Park Tools TS-3 Master Truing Stand, which they don't make anymore, due to they cost a mint, and didn't really sell many. I have only seen a couple of them, and ended up picking mine for free + some parts to fix it from the US (A drunk mechanic crashed into it playing rugby one night in a workshop, and thought they couldn't fix it). I have used the TS-2, which is their defunct top of the line now, and it doesn't even come close.

[g_stacey]

A bit late but now on bike.



G