Two Abreast - aggressive British drivers
Discussion
B.Eccelerock said:
The roads of Dorset seem to be going downhill this year, suffering lots of close passes as it gets darker. My road positioning in this one wasn't great, attempting to miss potholes and sunken drains in the road.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnkZHOBzr-0
As we’ve seen on this thread some car drivers just don’t get it and demand we respect them? I was greeted by a message on FB this morning on my old clubs page - a rider was out last week, broad daylight, but was hit and the car driver legged it. Cyclist is badly hurt and laid up in hospital. Where’s the respect or care from drivers to actually at least then stop and check the riders ok? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnkZHOBzr-0
YorkshireStu said:
Yes, I do and those ladies should have paid attention to the traffic building up behind them and, in my humble opinion, if they can see vehicles are struggling due to traffic density, go single file and allow slightly closer passes to get the cars through. The cars have seen them. The speed is controlled because they have seen them and so won't go wizzing past too quickly and will take care.
Why risk an irate impatient driver taking a risk that might end badly?
That's just me though and what I would have done. I don't like cars building up behind me - not one. I actively look to assist with vehicles overtaking and wave cars past me often.
It's one of those tough ones, they weren't doing anything wrong per se in terms of what they can do but weren't helping on a twisty bit either.
That said! I wasn't there - the puddles and kerb could have been dangerous to ride in, especially when you cannot see the depth of the potholes. So I kinda understand their reasoning, as one of them crashing while a car overtakes is potentially more dangerous.
Now that surprised me. Earlier in the thread you came across as a right jobs worth numpty. All Holier Than Thou. Why risk an irate impatient driver taking a risk that might end badly?
That's just me though and what I would have done. I don't like cars building up behind me - not one. I actively look to assist with vehicles overtaking and wave cars past me often.
It's one of those tough ones, they weren't doing anything wrong per se in terms of what they can do but weren't helping on a twisty bit either.
That said! I wasn't there - the puddles and kerb could have been dangerous to ride in, especially when you cannot see the depth of the potholes. So I kinda understand their reasoning, as one of them crashing while a car overtakes is potentially more dangerous.
And there you go showing us all what a throughly sensible human being you are. Someone I would have no need to toot at as I passed.
B.Eccelerock said:
The roads of Dorset seem to be going downhill this year, suffering lots of close passes as it gets darker. My road positioning in this one wasn't great, attempting to miss potholes and sunken drains in the road.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnkZHOBzr-0
As we’ve seen on this thread some car drivers just don’t get it and demand we respect them? I was greeted by a message on FB this morning on my old clubs page - a rider was out last week, broad daylight, but was hit and the car driver legged it. Cyclist is badly hurt and laid up in hospital. Where’s the respect or care from drivers to actually at least then stop and check the riders ok? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnkZHOBzr-0
Red9zero said:
My wife was going through some temp traffic lights yesterday when a cyclist came through the lights going the other way. Giving him the benefit of the doubt, the lights may have been playing up at his end. Either way, it was very much a single track with nowhere for my wife to go. However, in front of my wife was a truck, also heading towards the cyclist, who had even less room for manoeuvre. The cyclist refused point blank to move onto the path on his side of the road (let alone the cycle path the other side of the bollards), so the truck had to knock some bollards over to allow the cyclist to get past. My wife moved over as far as she could, but didn't want to hit the bollards. This wasn't enough for the cyclist who screamed abuse at my wife and then punched the side of the car, hopefully hurting his hand quite badly. Luckily, this was caught on dash cam, which is being forwarded to the Police, although I doubt very much anything will come of it.
Maybe the cyclist ran the red light. But then again, I've had situations where I've cycled through a GREEN traffic light following a line of cars. The line of cars gets a gap on you, and if it's a long "run" of road between the traffic lights it's entirely plausible that both the cyclist, AND your wife/the truck driver had green lights. And because green DOESN'T mean go, but "proceed of the way ahead is clear, it doesn't matter a jot whether the cyclist went through on red or green - you STILL have to let them pass out of the single lane section before trying to enter it yourself. It's a bit of a paradox. If the cyclist, as I have done in the past, allows queuing cars to go ahead of them into the controlled section of road, the risk is real that they get to the far end to see that drivers from the other end 'Go' on green and presume that said cyclist had run a red light. If the cyclist doesn't allow cars to pass them, and instead decides to go through the lights at the head of a queue of cars, the cyclist inevitably gets abused by drivers they are "holding up" (clue: the traffic light is what holds you up), and risks impatient, close passes from drivers behind them. an alternative is for the cyclist to ignore the lights altogether and either ride on the footway or ride through the coned off area of the roadworks if the surface is intact and there are no works currently underway. Again, though, despite trying to "do right by" fellow road users, cyclists can get stopped by police (this HAS happened in the footway riding situation I described) or simply abused by motorists from BOTH directions for using road space coned off so as to prevent it's use by cars. Short version? Just because your light is green, don't presume that traffic from the other end (that hasn't cleared the narrowed section in time) has ignored a red light at the far end. It's perfectly plausible, especially with slower "utility" cyclists (you know, the ones drivers claim they like, wearing helmets, yellow waistcoats, and "normal" clothes) that they went through at the very end of "their" green phase and have fallen foul of traffic light timings.
yellowjack said:
Red9zero said:
My wife was going through some temp traffic lights yesterday when a cyclist came through the lights going the other way. Giving him the benefit of the doubt, the lights may have been playing up at his end. Either way, it was very much a single track with nowhere for my wife to go. However, in front of my wife was a truck, also heading towards the cyclist, who had even less room for manoeuvre. The cyclist refused point blank to move onto the path on his side of the road (let alone the cycle path the other side of the bollards), so the truck had to knock some bollards over to allow the cyclist to get past. My wife moved over as far as she could, but didn't want to hit the bollards. This wasn't enough for the cyclist who screamed abuse at my wife and then punched the side of the car, hopefully hurting his hand quite badly. Luckily, this was caught on dash cam, which is being forwarded to the Police, although I doubt very much anything will come of it.
Maybe the cyclist ran the red light. But then again, I've had situations where I've cycled through a GREEN traffic light following a line of cars. The line of cars gets a gap on you, and if it's a long "run" of road between the traffic lights it's entirely plausible that both the cyclist, AND your wife/the truck driver had green lights. And because green DOESN'T mean go, but "proceed of the way ahead is clear, it doesn't matter a jot whether the cyclist went through on red or green - you STILL have to let them pass out of the single lane section before trying to enter it yourself. It's a bit of a paradox. If the cyclist, as I have done in the past, allows queuing cars to go ahead of them into the controlled section of road, the risk is real that they get to the far end to see that drivers from the other end 'Go' on green and presume that said cyclist had run a red light. If the cyclist doesn't allow cars to pass them, and instead decides to go through the lights at the head of a queue of cars, the cyclist inevitably gets abused by drivers they are "holding up" (clue: the traffic light is what holds you up), and risks impatient, close passes from drivers behind them. an alternative is for the cyclist to ignore the lights altogether and either ride on the footway or ride through the coned off area of the roadworks if the surface is intact and there are no works currently underway. Again, though, despite trying to "do right by" fellow road users, cyclists can get stopped by police (this HAS happened in the footway riding situation I described) or simply abused by motorists from BOTH directions for using road space coned off so as to prevent it's use by cars. Short version? Just because your light is green, don't presume that traffic from the other end (that hasn't cleared the narrowed section in time) has ignored a red light at the far end. It's perfectly plausible, especially with slower "utility" cyclists (you know, the ones drivers claim they like, wearing helmets, yellow waistcoats, and "normal" clothes) that they went through at the very end of "their" green phase and have fallen foul of traffic light timings.
Red9zero said:
It was a very long stretch of roadworks, round a slight bend too, so it is very possible that the cyclist went through a green light. The fact he screamed abuse at my wife and punched the car, despite her being stopped and into the bollards as far as she could without hitting them was what upset her.
I'd guess that the cyclist:a) assumed your wife had gone through a red light as he'd gone through on green and not take in to account that it's set up for the speed of cars
and
b) was an a
hole.RizzoTheRat said:
Red9zero said:
It was a very long stretch of roadworks, round a slight bend too, so it is very possible that the cyclist went through a green light. The fact he screamed abuse at my wife and punched the car, despite her being stopped and into the bollards as far as she could without hitting them was what upset her.
I'd guess that the cyclist:a) assumed your wife had gone through a red light as he'd gone through on green and not take in to account that it's set up for the speed of cars
and
b) was an a
hole.ZetecTDCI said:
mooseracer said:
Well, you've "met" one now! >12000km so far this year and I've not had to brake to avoid a car/van (to take your recent example).
I don't not believe people, it just staggers me how bad most have it.
Similar here. Same mileage with very very few incidents. I don't not believe people, it just staggers me how bad most have it.
Some people do very much have it worse from accounts I’ve read but I suspect I have a higher tolerance of mistakes/ unawareness in others than many other cyclists.
Not reacting to them is key for my mental state otherwise it would be in my head for ages and I’d end up questioning whether I ought to ride !
king ct of a cyclist has parked a big, scruffy Ford Mondeo/BMW X5/Mercedes Sprinter van in YOUR space outside YOUR house, the liberty-taking spunk-trumpet. Drivers! Take action against this sort of thing right now! Drive properly, with consideration, and maybe by setting a good example other drivers will follow, making the roads safe enough for that cyclist, and others like him, to make their entire journey into rural cycling Utopia entirely on two wheels... 
B.Eccelerock said:
The roads of Dorset seem to be going downhill this year, suffering lots of close passes as it gets darker. My road positioning in this one wasn't great, attempting to miss potholes and sunken drains in the road.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnkZHOBzr-0
I think I'd be tempted to send that video to the Feds!?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnkZHOBzr-0
Red9zero said:
RizzoTheRat said:
Red9zero said:
It was a very long stretch of roadworks, round a slight bend too, so it is very possible that the cyclist went through a green light. The fact he screamed abuse at my wife and punched the car, despite her being stopped and into the bollards as far as she could without hitting them was what upset her.
I'd guess that the cyclist:a) assumed your wife had gone through a red light as he'd gone through on green and not take in to account that it's set up for the speed of cars
and
b) was an a
hole.t out of him, and, like a lot of human beings do, he then lashed out at whatever person or thing was nearest. Not defending it, just pointing out that it's not really unusual for someone who didn't cause an issue to find themselves in the firing line of someone who was affected by it.My "hitting a car" incident? Late at night, approaching a roundabout to turn right (third exit) I took the lane marked for that exit. Suddenly, the car that had been some way behind me was under my right elbow, the driver trying to force me across into the left/ahead lane. He'd gone into a debris strewn hatched area to do this, and narrowly missed hitting the 'Keep Left' island as well. He got a smack on the roof of his Nissan Micra, mainly because I didn't think ringing my bell would have the desired effect of waking him up. Anyway, a little while further on I was stopped by the police car which I'd passed (parked on the opposite side of the road) seconds before Billy Big-Bo
cks tried to kill me. Turns out he'd taken exception to me hitting his car and gone all the way around the roundabout and back to grass me up. The conversation with the police officer was interesting. She pulled me over, and asked me for my version of events. He turned up shouting the odds, berating me, asking his own questions, and then answering for me too. She basically told him that if he didn't shut up he'd find himself sitting in the back of her car. After I'd had a chance to explain what happened, he got the opportunity to incriminate himself. He basically admitted he'd pulled the stunt deliberately because I "had no right to be in the right hand lane". Anyway, in the end she bid me go on my way, and he got the promised chat in the police car. Reading between the lines it's unlikely he faced charges of any kind. I think she just wanted to read him the riot act, and give me a head start getting back on the road. She'd made it clear early on that she had far better things to concern herself with than relatively minor traffic stuff, and I never heard another peep about it.For anyone who wants to challenge me over slapping the roof of a car that's alongside me and getting closer? The advice from various Roads Policing Units and official road safety sources is clear. Give cyclists 1.5 metres of space when overtaking. And given that my "reach" is less than a metre, if you are doing that it'll be impossible for me to bang on your roof...
yellowjack said:
Devil's advocate? The truck was what scared the st out of him, and, like a lot of human beings do, he then lashed out at whatever person or thing was nearest. Not defending it, just pointing out that it's not really unusual for someone who didn't cause an issue to find themselves in the firing line of someone who was affected by it.
Possibly. Not nice to vent your fury on an innocent woman though. t out of him, and, like a lot of human beings do, he then lashed out at whatever person or thing was nearest. Not defending it, just pointing out that it's not really unusual for someone who didn't cause an issue to find themselves in the firing line of someone who was affected by it._Hoppers said:
B.Eccelerock said:
The roads of Dorset seem to be going downhill this year, suffering lots of close passes as it gets darker. My road positioning in this one wasn't great, attempting to miss potholes and sunken drains in the road.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnkZHOBzr-0
I think I'd be tempted to send that video to the Feds!?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnkZHOBzr-0
Red9zero said:
yellowjack said:
Devil's advocate? The truck was what scared the st out of him, and, like a lot of human beings do, he then lashed out at whatever person or thing was nearest. Not defending it, just pointing out that it's not really unusual for someone who didn't cause an issue to find themselves in the firing line of someone who was affected by it.
Possibly. Not nice to vent your fury on an innocent woman though. t out of him, and, like a lot of human beings do, he then lashed out at whatever person or thing was nearest. Not defending it, just pointing out that it's not really unusual for someone who didn't cause an issue to find themselves in the firing line of someone who was affected by it.yellowjack said:
Devil's advocate again? Just like some drivers like to dehumanise "The Cyclists", it's quite within the realms of possibility that your wife being a woman, and her being innocent, were of no interest or relevance to this cyclist. It's possible that he registered only the car, and was venting his anger/terror/frustration upon the inanimate object, rather then the person inside it. Again, not to defend the action/reaction, but to frame it in the context of the situation with the preceding vehicle. And again, not pinning this on your wife, as it can be hard to see much on the road ahead through a truck, but both the truck driver AND the cyclist could have managed this situation better. For example, if both had stopped, the fear factor, and any reaction to it, are reduced. But I'd stake my house on it that, in the instant a truck driver passes a green light and is faced with a cyclist coming the other way, the truck driver is vanishingly unlikely to accept that the cyclist may have actually not run the opposing light. It's far from ideal, whichever way you look at it. One approach (logically speaking) could be to suggest that the cyclist (all cyclists?) wait even if their light is green, just in case it's close to going amber, then red. Cyclists should only go when they actually witness the light change from red/amber to green. But that's just not on. Cyclists have the same legal right to proceed if the way is clear as drivers do at a set of traffic lights. It's hard to suggest a foolproof solution to this issue that would work at all temporary lights. What about four/three way control? What about situations where "joining traffic is not signal controlled"?
Ironically going through on red can be less cantankerous than going through on green, because you know that if anything is coming it's your job to get the out of the way. 
Did happen a couple of times during lockdown, where it became abundantly apparent that certain lights didn't detect cyclists. Add in some Sod's law.
yellowjack said:
<snip> some drivers like to dehumanise "The Cyclists", </snip>
Cars dehumanise people. The isolation from others (all other road users and pedestrians) seems to excuse many drivers from acting reasonably. However if something happens to make them see you as a human (making eye contact, or getting a wave /waving at someone, even sometimes moving unusually) you get treated with more respect.I encounter this so many more times than encountering someone who deliberately DGAF, or maliciously does close-pass or threateningly.
mooseracer said:
_Hoppers said:
B.Eccelerock said:
The roads of Dorset seem to be going downhill this year, suffering lots of close passes as it gets darker. My road positioning in this one wasn't great, attempting to miss potholes and sunken drains in the road.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnkZHOBzr-0
I think I'd be tempted to send that video to the Feds!?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnkZHOBzr-0
Dont be tempted. Dont think about it. Do it.
Bathroom_Security said:
mooseracer said:
_Hoppers said:
B.Eccelerock said:
The roads of Dorset seem to be going downhill this year, suffering lots of close passes as it gets darker. My road positioning in this one wasn't great, attempting to miss potholes and sunken drains in the road.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnkZHOBzr-0
I think I'd be tempted to send that video to the Feds!?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnkZHOBzr-0
Dont be tempted. Dont think about it. Do it.
Solocle said:
Yeesh, 3 Legged Cross. Not the most pleasant road in the world, but it's not a particularly bad one either. Generally speaking it's that way or the A31.
Its the worst bit of a great road - I cycle down from Shaftesbury to Christchurch via Ringwood and the roads past zig zag hill are fantastic!B.Eccelerock said:
It was submitted to the police in February, who issued a crime number, then went silent - I chased up after 6 months but was informed NFA due to lack of evidence! Have attempted to chase over the last few months, but getting nowhere, so chucking the video online.
fk em then, put it on twitter, tag a bunch of cycle twitterers + the relevant force. Hopefully someone with a big following will retweet it. Total joke.
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