Unkown hand/arm signal from cyclist
Discussion
Cyclists do not hold motorists up...FACT.
Think about it, you have to slow down once in a blue moon to pass a cyclist and how long are you stuck behind one for? 5 seconds maybe 10 seconds if its a really difficult overtake.
I get stuck behing cars doing 40mph in a 60mph zone for miles...thats being held up and is far less considerate of the driver behind than you can accuse any cyclist of being.
Think about it, you have to slow down once in a blue moon to pass a cyclist and how long are you stuck behind one for? 5 seconds maybe 10 seconds if its a really difficult overtake.
I get stuck behing cars doing 40mph in a 60mph zone for miles...thats being held up and is far less considerate of the driver behind than you can accuse any cyclist of being.
RV8 said:
I said many, not any.
There is a difference, you know!
Besides I've lived in London, my flat mate or any cab drivers I used beeped their horns more often than they depressed the clutch, tbh in London it's even harder to tell what someone is beeping for being as everyone does it, often with no meaning other than frustration.
I take it that beeping is to make others aware of your presence, if you do as you suggested and start beeping to warn of perceived dangers further ahead you are basically making the cyclist aware of you, in other words you are assuming that a vehicle beeping draws attention to potential danger rather than itself - this sometimes works but it is not always the case and it is difficult to know what morse code someone is trying to spell out with their horn sometimes or even if the message is for you.
I just assume most beepers they are letting me know they are there, even if I'm already aware, although I do think some people seem to like letting people know 'they are there' more assertively than others, when it is obvious or to excuse driving like a
ie; bombing down a country lane and using the horn rather than the brake for blind bends for example.
Fair points all round There is a difference, you know!
Besides I've lived in London, my flat mate or any cab drivers I used beeped their horns more often than they depressed the clutch, tbh in London it's even harder to tell what someone is beeping for being as everyone does it, often with no meaning other than frustration.
I take it that beeping is to make others aware of your presence, if you do as you suggested and start beeping to warn of perceived dangers further ahead you are basically making the cyclist aware of you, in other words you are assuming that a vehicle beeping draws attention to potential danger rather than itself - this sometimes works but it is not always the case and it is difficult to know what morse code someone is trying to spell out with their horn sometimes or even if the message is for you.
I just assume most beepers they are letting me know they are there, even if I'm already aware, although I do think some people seem to like letting people know 'they are there' more assertively than others, when it is obvious or to excuse driving like a
ie; bombing down a country lane and using the horn rather than the brake for blind bends for example.
At least we agree that there is a big difference between aggressive horn (willy) waving and a poilte little beep - even if potentially misunderstood!
Just trying to clear a few points up, I'm actually impressed with a few of the replies.
Tooting my horn :
I don't toot at horses, as even though I'm a city boy, I know I can spook them, I see far fewer horses on the road (compared to cyclists), and I percieve the riders as far more car friendly than cyclists.
I don't toot at tractors etc ..... as the danger is the other way around .... I'm the vunerable one.
I very very rarely toot a cyclist in the City, there isn't enough speed differential to worry me, it's the speed differential that concerns me regarding groups on nsl roads ...... yes I could slow down even more ...... I most certainly would for horses, but, cyclists don't hold the same level of respect from me, strange but true .
I do sometimes toot at a group of moped riders, again, large speed differential, and they are much less likely to hear me approaching.
Most poor cycling I see occurs in the City, most poor driving I see occurs in the City, most poor motorcycling I see occurs in nsl's !
Breaking of traffic regs I see, mainly in the City, is done by cycles and motorcycles (white line regs, any type of white line), with the addition of cycling aginst the flow of traffic by cyclist ... obviously.
A strange one from me, but this is also shared by driving friends, a queue of traffic does not hold me up ...... it's just traffic, a very rare group of horses doesn't hold me up. Farm vehicles hold me up (on nsl's), Lorries hold me up (again nsl's), cyclists hold me up everywhere
Attitudes may change with time, I'll be 50 this year, but cyclists just don't seem to command much respect within my age group (in my opinion.....in my circle of friends), cycling is something you do when you're either too young or poor to drive, and the recent "push" to give them preferential treatment, combined with "their" constant whinging regarding wanting everything done just to suit them, doesn't help with my/my friends attitude(s) towards them.
When I find a cyclist treating me (as a driver) as an equal regarding road use, I find myself think wow !
As for the "time trial" bunch ...... we'll leave that one
Tooting my horn :
I don't toot at horses, as even though I'm a city boy, I know I can spook them, I see far fewer horses on the road (compared to cyclists), and I percieve the riders as far more car friendly than cyclists.
I don't toot at tractors etc ..... as the danger is the other way around .... I'm the vunerable one.
I very very rarely toot a cyclist in the City, there isn't enough speed differential to worry me, it's the speed differential that concerns me regarding groups on nsl roads ...... yes I could slow down even more ...... I most certainly would for horses, but, cyclists don't hold the same level of respect from me, strange but true .
I do sometimes toot at a group of moped riders, again, large speed differential, and they are much less likely to hear me approaching.
Most poor cycling I see occurs in the City, most poor driving I see occurs in the City, most poor motorcycling I see occurs in nsl's !
Breaking of traffic regs I see, mainly in the City, is done by cycles and motorcycles (white line regs, any type of white line), with the addition of cycling aginst the flow of traffic by cyclist ... obviously.
A strange one from me, but this is also shared by driving friends, a queue of traffic does not hold me up ...... it's just traffic, a very rare group of horses doesn't hold me up. Farm vehicles hold me up (on nsl's), Lorries hold me up (again nsl's), cyclists hold me up everywhere
Attitudes may change with time, I'll be 50 this year, but cyclists just don't seem to command much respect within my age group (in my opinion.....in my circle of friends), cycling is something you do when you're either too young or poor to drive, and the recent "push" to give them preferential treatment, combined with "their" constant whinging regarding wanting everything done just to suit them, doesn't help with my/my friends attitude(s) towards them.
When I find a cyclist treating me (as a driver) as an equal regarding road use, I find myself think wow !
As for the "time trial" bunch ...... we'll leave that one
Nigel Worc's]... [in the city said:
there isn't enough speed differential to worry me, it's the speed differential that concerns me regarding groups on nsl roads ...... yes I could slow down even more ...... I most certainly would for horses, but, cyclists don't hold the same level of respect from me, strange but true .
that is the bit that worries me. So because you don't like 'some' cyclists, you will approach others in the same way, some that might include your friends, relatives of your friends, or strangers who happen to be perfectly good human beings, but because they are on a bike you don't think you should slow down for them, or not as much as horses? You should slow down enough to get past safely irrespective of whether it is a horse, a cyclist, 10 cyclists, a tractor or a mother with a pram. This could mean that you don't have to slow at all of course on a NSL, if wide enough and lines of sight are ok, blast past on the other lane at 60 if you like, I wouldn't have a problem with that, but if you are being slowed down and need to, then please just wait until safe for all concerned, cyclists, yourself and oncoming traffic.Perhaps then we'll all share the same amount of respect?
At last some common sense regarding the eternal 'battle' between the various 4 wheelers, (motor)2 wheelers, and (pedal)2 wheelers. One day we will all come to the blinding realisation that we must learn to co-exist and respect one another, then balance may be restored to the force. There will always be a 'dark side' who won't play by the rules, whether they be statute law, or the rules of common sense. The answer to that is to anticipate and take appropriate action to AVOID conflict with other road users whenever possible, and hope that the muppets are caught and dealt with appropriately. It has been mentioned numerous times on this forum that we cyclists who post on here are, for the most part, drivers first. We just happen to have found a little corner of pistonheads where we can 'talk' to other folk who share our love of two wheels too. It's not a case of 'four wheels bad - two wheels good', more 'four wheels good - two wheels more fun'. Taking away my car would be akin to cutting off one of my legs, but a car can never convey the sense of achievement at the top of a tough climb, nor the thrill of blasting down the other side in top gear at 40+ mph with only 9kg of rubber and metal between you and the road. What's more, if all the haters would just borrow a bike and get themselves a taste of what it feels like to be a cyclist on our modern busy road network, then, even if they weren't bitten by the bug themselves, maybe they would at least develop some empathy with cyclists.
Climbs off
Johnnytheboy said:
If by that post you mean that all road users are equally responsible for their actions and should be treated equally by the law, then I agree with you entirely.
Except the law isn't the same for all road users (eg a horse rider or cyclist can't be done for speeding). So hopefully you mean that the laws applicable to each road user will be enforced equally (i.e. morons who ride on pavements and through red lights should also be dealt with, as should bad driving).Gassing Station | Pedal Powered | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff