Wheels - I don't want a factory wheel

[summit7]

I want Chris King R45 road hubs with Ambrosio F20 Crono 330g 32 hole rims and bladed spokes, fitted with a great tub not some hard walled evil handling, rough riding clincher.

I just don't get this deep deep section heavy heavy bad braking time trial rim accepted as "the ultimate wheel" when most of the time we ride on rough roads where we need to brake/turn/accelerate/climb.

The wheels I list would run out around 1000g would take a pounding and could have the bearings cleaned/lubed easily - none of this sealed bearing, dry out, run rough rubbish.

It would appear from the postings on here that I am in a minority of one though !

[shalmaneser]

Good for you. Just buy the bits and get someone to build them for you. Or build them yourself, if you want.

[b2hbm]

Nope, you're not alone. I use 32 spoke sprints on my "best" bike, and they have olde-worlde cones and bearings as well.

I also have some low spoke count factory built sprints & clinchers as well. Initially the factory sprints were an upgrade to the summer bike but in practice I couldn't find any difference in my speeds on normal roads and this year I went back to home-built 32's. The wheels were more rigid for sure but the 32's are more forgiving on real-world B-roads so my speeds seem much the same over mixed riding.

[anonymous-user]

there are a lot of us who praise the virtues of handbuilt ambrosio tubs or mavic open pros, db spokes and some nice hubs. the likes of wheelsmith, paul hewitt et al get a frequent reference...

[itsnotarace]

summit7 said:

I want Chris King R45 road hubs with Ambrosio F20 Crono 330g 32 hole rims and bladed spokes, fitted with a great tub not some hard walled evil handling, rough riding clincher.

summit7 said:

The wheels I list would run out around 1000g would take a pounding and could have the bearings cleaned/lubed easily - none of this sealed bearing, dry out, run rough rubbish.

Maybe nearer 1000g each wheel. Chris King hubs are pretty heavy at 317g per pair, the rims are 375g each not 330. There is also no reason to go 32/32, you never need a front wheel as strong as the rear and it could even create an unbalanced ride. 28/32 would be much better

To get a rideable set that weighs 1000g, well that's not so easy at all

For a budget build you could consider

DATI hubs http://www.bikehubstore.com/DATI-UltraLight-Road-B... - 260g pair
Ambrosio F20 Crono - 750g pair
DT Competition spokes - 360g for 60
32x brass nipples rear - 30g for 32
28x alloy nipples front - 5.6g for 32

That lot would come in at ~ 1405g, and would have a rider weight limit of about 90kgs and cost around £500 fully built

[Raoul Duke]

Another nod to Wheelsmith.
Speak to Derek - if you email him your requirements he will give you an honest appraisal of what is best for your needs.
He also lists the weights of all the components on his web site so you could work out what the realistic wheel weight is going to be.
Purchased a set of his hand built carbon clinchers earlier in the year and was very impressed with his service - and price!
At some point in the future i quite like the idea of getting a similar build to yourself, as a second set of aluminium wheels for my Lemond, using chris king hubs to match the bikes CK headset and bottom bracket now i have relegated the Shamals to the winter bike.

[Roman]

Lots of wheel builders rate DT Supercomp spokes very highly.

60g lighter & only £15 more than DT Comps (for 60 spokes) so still less than half the price of CX Rays, almost as light and very strong too.

[DrMekon]

I don't understand why anyone would use factory wheels outside a race. With the low spoke count, I'd be in constant fear of a pringled wheel and a long walk home. If you are training or out for a club run, I can't see the sense in them.

[okgo]

Coz they look better is why

I use factory mavics and they did pop a spoke the other day, or more like someone snapped it.

They're good value though, you can't build a rim that is as good an all rounder as a Ksyrium Elite for the money. Harry Rowland told me himself that they're very hard to beat as an all round packge.

As for deep section rims, they make a difference in TT's and races, I will be buying them for that very reason.

[itsnotarace]

okgo said:

As for deep section rims, they make a difference in TT's and races, I will be buying them for that very reason.

So the laws of physics stop when not competing in TT's and races. I see.

[okgo]

itsnotarace said:

So the laws of physics stop when not competing in TT's and races. I see.

No but what's the point for training? They're too expensive to wreck over potholes and as I'm always being told by a certain member, your training
Bike should be heavy

[anonymous-user]

okgo said:

No but what's the point for training? They're too expensive to wreck over potholes and as I'm always being told by a certain member, your training
Bike should be heavy

This.

A pair of Fulcrum 7's or similar are a bit flexy when you stamp on them but they are tough and dont bend when you hit holes. A mate has a Felt AR0 with 404's and they would be killed on my commute.

Custom wheels are great if you are outside the design of all factory wheels, most of us aren't really so IMO you may as well save your money

[itsnotarace]

okgo said:

No but what's the point for training? They're too expensive to wreck over potholes and as I'm always being told by a certain member, your training
Bike should be heavy

Training for what though? Strange as this may sound, some people actually ride for pleasure. And if you're whacking into potholes I would counter that you should be looking where you're going

I'm not suggesting you should invest in a set of deep carbon wheels for commuting, just that some people ride for fun and don't care about training for races as we don't enter any

Why do people buy Porsche 911's when a Ford Ka gets you from A to B?

[Raoul Duke]

There is another slight downside to riding on deep section wheels away from races, ( aside from the pothole issue ) and thats every one around will try to race you in order to prove that you have "all the gear and no idea".
This is particularly irritating when you are coming to the end of a long and hilly training ride with ruined legs and someone fresh out of the front door decides to try and prove this, with no idea of how you came to be there.

[okgo]

itsnotarace said:

Training for what though? Strange as this may sound, some people actually ride for pleasure. And if you're whacking into potholes I would counter that you should be looking where you're going

I'm not suggesting you should invest in a set of deep carbon wheels for commuting, just that some people ride for fun and don't care about training for races as we don't enter any

Why do people buy Porsche 911's when a Ford Ka gets you from A to B?

Most people that are not training for anything won't be fast enough to see the benefit of aero rims anyway.

But I agree, for those of us that do train for a purpose, or whatever then they make sense for races, but not really for training, and regarding your pothole comment, when you're going 25-30mph in a paceline around dark surrey roads you can't see much

[okgo]

Raoul Duke said:

There is another slight downside to riding on deep section wheels away from races, ( aside from the pothole issue ) and thats every one around will try to race you in order to prove that you have "all the gear and no idea".
This is particularly irritating when you are coming to the end of a long and hilly training ride with ruined legs and someone fresh out of the front door decides to try and prove this, with no idea of how you came to be there.

When they see the bulging veins in your calves they'll soon realise that you're just not trying.

[itsnotarace]

okgo said:

Most people that are not training for anything won't be fast enough to see the benefit of aero rims anyway.

There are other benefits aside from aero, less rotational mass for a start. And anyway when you ride solo the aero benefits are still there, as you don't have another wheel to suck

okgo said:

But I agree, for those of us that do train for a purpose, or whatever then they make sense for races, but not really for training

There's an old saying that goes "don't race what you can't replace". If you can afford to have them written off in a crash, which - lets face it; you are much more likely to in close proximity to another rider. So you then have to wonder whether they are even of benefit in races.

okgo said:

and regarding your pothole comment, when you're going 25-30mph in a paceline around dark surrey roads you can't see much

Paceline in the dark winter evenings? Sounds dangerous

[okgo]

itsnotarace said:

okgo said:

Most people that are not training for anything won't be fast enough to see the benefit of aero rims anyway.

There are other benefits aside from aero, less rotational mass for a start. And anyway when you ride solo the aero benefits are still there, as you don't have another wheel to suck

okgo said:

But I agree, for those of us that do train for a purpose, or whatever then they make sense for races, but not really for training

There's an old saying that goes "don't race what you can't replace". If you can afford to have them written off in a crash, which - lets face it; you are much more likely to in close proximity to another rider. So you then have to wonder whether they are even of benefit in races.

okgo said:

and regarding your pothole comment, when you're going 25-30mph in a paceline around dark surrey roads you can't see much

Paceline in the dark winter evenings? Sounds dangerous

Yeh, for light wheels they are great all rounders, great for climbing and what not, but for flashy carbon deep section wheels they're usually heavy, and if you're riding alone then you've got to be pretty quick to make the most of the saving on offer, they say you really start to notive the difference above 20 mph, the majority of people are not riding at over 20 mph on the flat, and I've heard figures such as 22/23 as the point where they make the most difference, again, for most people that isn't possible for any period of time.

I race to win, and if they make the task of winning easier, happy days. Yes racing on a pair of Lightweights at Hillingdon is asking for trouble, but Aero Rims start at as little as £400 now, so not silly money. And I think in a road race there is a lot less crashing than at a circuit, which is why people feel more comfortable racing on 3k wheels.

Its not dangerous, you just can't see every hole in the road, no crashes yet in 9 weeks of doing it.

[itsnotarace]

okgo said:

Yeh, for light wheels they are great all rounders, great for climbing and what not, but for flashy carbon deep section wheels they're usually heavy, and if you're riding alone then you've got to be pretty quick to make the most of the saving on offer, they say you really start to notive the difference above 20 mph, the majority of people are not riding at over 20 mph on the flat, and I've heard figures such as 22/23 as the point where they make the most difference, again, for most people that isn't possible for any period of time.

The aero benefits are really minute, we are talking a few watts in power saved over 40km. The whole point of them is the loss in weight, I saved 450g over my Mavics, along with the improvement in ride quality that a good tubular tyre provides. If you are just going to go for carbon clinchers then you may as well not bother as they are as heavy as alu rims, and braking is worse.

okgo said:

Its not dangerous, you just can't see every hole in the road, no crashes yet in 9 weeks of doing it.

You should get some video of these 30mph pacelines in the dark, would be good to watch

[IroningMan]

In the winter I generally ride on Ksyrium Elites - the cheaper wheels I have feel so horrid incomparison that I can't bring myself to change them. And I have two pairs, anyway.

In the summer I ride on deep-rim carbon tubs, probably far too much, but then I ride my TT bike more or less every time - they feel great and at £400 a pair I can just about live with the wear-and-tear.