Quick question - would you be happy with this wheel?
Discussion
Actually I think it looks terrible because it is such a small wheel with such short spokes / big hub. Best as I can tell from the photos, the spokes are laced correctly for a 2x DS. The 'leading' spokes should always pass behind / under the trailing spokes on the last (outermost) crossover. That way when they're in tension (under drive) and the trailing ones are de-tensioned, they tend to pull straighter and 'tighten' the trailing ones..
upsidedownmark said:
Actually I think it looks terrible because it is such a small wheel with such short spokes / big hub. Best as I can tell from the photos, the spokes are laced correctly for a 2x DS. The 'leading' spokes should always pass behind / under the trailing spokes on the last (outermost) crossover. That way when they're in tension (under drive) and the trailing ones are de-tensioned, they tend to pull straighter and 'tighten' the trailing ones..
But surely it makes sense that the outside spokes go outside the inside spokes? That's just common sense (but not what has happened on this wheel).Outside spoke should go outside, inside for a 2x, or outside, outside, inside for a 3x. Common sense isn't always what you might think.
[ETA the rules *might* change for very small wheels] Check any regular sized wheel and you should see it as above; it's so that the wheel tensions its self under drive.
[ETA the rules *might* change for very small wheels] Check any regular sized wheel and you should see it as above; it's so that the wheel tensions its self under drive.
Edited by upsidedownmark on Thursday 25th August 13:53
Surprisingly the pics of new wheels show the nipples at quite extreme angles - I thought the same as you, that they look too extreme.
It's back with the shop now and they're going to call Brompton to see what the correct lacing pattern is.
I did know that often the spokes are crossed but that really didn't look right to my (admittedly not very technical) eyes.
It's back with the shop now and they're going to call Brompton to see what the correct lacing pattern is.
I did know that often the spokes are crossed but that really didn't look right to my (admittedly not very technical) eyes.
The only way the spokes can come out at a 90 degree angle is if it is radially laced, and that's something you can't do on a driving wheel (only on a rim braked front). The smaller the wheel, the more crosses you have, and the larger the hub, the more extreme the angle.
Not saying that wheel *is* perfect / spot on - I don't know. To me, every brompton wheel I've seen does look hellish precisely because they're damn small, and have a lot of crosses going on. I've built a few full sized wheels, so know enough to be dangerous, but not an expert either
Not saying that wheel *is* perfect / spot on - I don't know. To me, every brompton wheel I've seen does look hellish precisely because they're damn small, and have a lot of crosses going on. I've built a few full sized wheels, so know enough to be dangerous, but not an expert either
Edited by upsidedownmark on Thursday 25th August 14:38
Well the shop's admitted they got it wrong.
While it's correct that a 2x lacing pattern on larger wheels is as mine was done, that's not how Brompton do it, nor what they recommend.
I'm a big believer in giving people a second chance and letting them correct their mistakes, so was happy to take it back there.
Should get a look at it tonight as my Dad's said he'll pick it up for me today.
While it's correct that a 2x lacing pattern on larger wheels is as mine was done, that's not how Brompton do it, nor what they recommend.
I'm a big believer in giving people a second chance and letting them correct their mistakes, so was happy to take it back there.
Should get a look at it tonight as my Dad's said he'll pick it up for me today.
I'm not even convinced they got the 2-lacing pattern correct either, there's no way those spokes should be bent around each other, spokes exiting the outside of the hub should remain outside of all spokes, not cross under the spokes which exit the inside of the hub! Just give it a close look before you part with any money - it doesn't look like they really know what they're doing.
For a ?20? inch wheel on my dahon, they're laced (outside / inside), and every other bike I own from mountainbike to the TT. This is totally normal AND correct for a 'regular' wheel. If you want the wheel to hold tension, that's what you do (otherwise the trailing spokes unload and 'work' loose). It may run counter to your intuition AyBee, but take a look at any old 700c wheel, you'll see the same. Spokes 'bend' around each other with the 'leading' spokes going ouside-inside. Take a look at sheldon brown's pages if you want confirmation.
However my mate's brompton (which I think is an 18 inch?), they do indeed stay outside - it's 2x laced fully outside. If you went 3x, the spoke angles would be absurd, 1x wouldn't really be enough, and you just can't lace a driving wheel radially for obvious reasons.
Presumably with the wheel being so small you reach a point where it's just too much, and conversely there's probably less torque induced slackening of the trailing spokes with a small wheel
However my mate's brompton (which I think is an 18 inch?), they do indeed stay outside - it's 2x laced fully outside. If you went 3x, the spoke angles would be absurd, 1x wouldn't really be enough, and you just can't lace a driving wheel radially for obvious reasons.
Presumably with the wheel being so small you reach a point where it's just too much, and conversely there's probably less torque induced slackening of the trailing spokes with a small wheel
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