DC5 Integra Versus S2000
Discussion
I have never driven a S2000 however it does have a well documented record of ending off road when driven hard in wet conditions. A friend who works frequently on the Nurburgring as a chassis developer for the new jags and tracks e36M3 is very wary of there in the limit handling!!! He even calls them widow makers!!! I gather three were stoked there recently by Honda drivers!!!
As a keen driver who Knows his limits I would think twice !!
As a keen driver who Knows his limits I would think twice !!
captainchris said:
I have never driven a S2000 however it does have a well documented record of ending off road when driven hard in wet conditions. A friend who works frequently on the Nurburgring as a chassis developer for the new jags and tracks e36M3 is very wary of there in the limit handling!!! He even calls them widow makers!!! I gather three were stoked there recently by Honda drivers!!!
As a keen driver who Knows his limits I would think twice !!
As a keen driver who Knows his limits I would think twice !!
In the wet on the S02's they're a real handful - the tyres have narrow grooves which can't shift water, and the tyres can take a little while to heat up. In the dry they're a lot better, but not 'delicate', and in the wet on different tyres they're just, ah, 'adrenalising'!
I do like the car, but it's not one to hoon in close to the limit, as you can with REALLY well set-up drivers' cars. Then again, it's limits in the dry are so high you'd be doing 3-figures before you found them in most cases...
Havoc,
Since you are smart enough to note that we are comparing the size of our equipment, surely you must be aware that I can counter all your points one by one, whether based on my own experience, past track and sprint record or motor press. Which will only result in you countering mine in similar fashion!
The point I was making was that you proceeded to invalidate my subjective experience of the S2000 (a fact which I underlined by pointing out that I was referring to MY limits) in a way that I did not perceive as constructive.
The second point I was trying to make (and which you interpreted as irrelevant or even exhibitionist) was that before proceeding to argue with someone's opinion on this forum, it is worth checking out their profile to see if by any chance they have any idea about what they are talking about, and that should determine the nature of your response.
Having hijacked the thread enough, I can only welcome anyone who wants to know more about my experience of owning and tracking an S2000 to contact me.
mercurius
Since you are smart enough to note that we are comparing the size of our equipment, surely you must be aware that I can counter all your points one by one, whether based on my own experience, past track and sprint record or motor press. Which will only result in you countering mine in similar fashion!
The point I was making was that you proceeded to invalidate my subjective experience of the S2000 (a fact which I underlined by pointing out that I was referring to MY limits) in a way that I did not perceive as constructive.
The second point I was trying to make (and which you interpreted as irrelevant or even exhibitionist) was that before proceeding to argue with someone's opinion on this forum, it is worth checking out their profile to see if by any chance they have any idea about what they are talking about, and that should determine the nature of your response.
Having hijacked the thread enough, I can only welcome anyone who wants to know more about my experience of owning and tracking an S2000 to contact me.
mercurius
Edited by mercurius on Friday 17th November 14:51
Ah the legend of Burnie lives on!
Try following him through Wales in pouring rain driving an S at silly speeds.... Its fun!
Seriously bang for buck and a real drivers car it HAS to be the S2000. I have an Accord Type R to shift stuff to the tip! ;-)
If the roads are dry I know which set of keys I find myself reaching for.............;-)
Try following him through Wales in pouring rain driving an S at silly speeds.... Its fun!
Seriously bang for buck and a real drivers car it HAS to be the S2000. I have an Accord Type R to shift stuff to the tip! ;-)
If the roads are dry I know which set of keys I find myself reaching for.............;-)
EddandSam1 said:
Seriously bang for buck and a real drivers car it HAS to be the S2000. I have an Accord Type R to shift stuff to the tip! ;-)
DC5 can be had shy over 11k now which is alot of car for the money.
I am probally bias but having a DC5 after a number of other FWD hot hatches (106 Rallye being the only one worth noting) and can't think of anything to touch it. Loads of S2000 about but nothing quite beats driving the Teg about and getting all the looks and attention.
Even when I dropped down the local Honda Dealership they were all out having a look feeding the ego
. It comes down to what you want to drive.
RWD 2 seater roadster: Get the S2000
FWD Practical Coupe get the Teg
Maybe when the bones are weary from the JDM suspension and my non recaro arse tires of being pushed into the recaros then I might have to look for something more grown up but for now I will keep my daily helping of yobtastic banshee screaming head turning beast... or i could just go mad on it and fit some coilovers... and throttle bodies... and oh crap not again
Very true Carfiend but really RWD is superior without a doubt. Once you start getting into decent power levels there are only 2 ways to go RWD or 4WD as the front wheels simply cannot cope with too much power and steer a the same time! Torque steer is fun but not condusive to going quickly! ;-)
Thanks to all the replied to my question. I kinda knew i'd open up the FWD v RWD debate but.... Also, the other debate is the practicality factor. The Teg has decent back seats a a good boot, the S2000 has no back seats and a smaller boot.
I guess I wish Honda made the Integra based on the S2000's chassis. A car as light as the Integra with RWD setup, good looks, practicality and that screaming VTEC would be a winner.
The only other car I can think of is the 330ci beemer. It is RWD, 230bhp, has backseats and a decent boot. Also it has better torque figures than the Honda's. The only thing that puts me off that is the bloody things are everywhere.
I'd love to see a review of the 330ci against the S2000. Leaving practicality out I wonder how they'd compare?
I guess I wish Honda made the Integra based on the S2000's chassis. A car as light as the Integra with RWD setup, good looks, practicality and that screaming VTEC would be a winner.
The only other car I can think of is the 330ci beemer. It is RWD, 230bhp, has backseats and a decent boot. Also it has better torque figures than the Honda's. The only thing that puts me off that is the bloody things are everywhere.
I'd love to see a review of the 330ci against the S2000. Leaving practicality out I wonder how they'd compare?
johnnyMac said:
Leaving practicality out I wonder how they'd compare?
330 would be more boring than S2000, but on-road ultimately quicker (not straight line) unless you're a 'driving god', and the performance would be more flexible and usable more of the time.
I for one am rather taken by the Z4C 3.0, and I'm dead jealous that a good mate is seriously looking at buying one!
Oh...agreed on the rwd 'teg comments. Z4C about as close as you get, unless you fancy an RX7...
As a daily driver and if you want or expect practicality from a car, then the dc5 is the way to go. If you want ultimate performance (and i don't mean THE ultimate performance) then the s2000 is the way to go. Its ultimately the slightly faster car in both straightline and cornering performance. But it is not going to be as forgiving on the average B road as the DC5, and ultimately more fun on the track. I think they are both good cars, but i wanted the 2 seater rwd roadster rather than a hot hatch.
As for havoc's comments about the rear end, it depends on the age and revision of your s2000. I personally think that the early cars are better on the track as they have considerably less understeer but the rear end is more twitchy. The later my04+ cars are much more stable and predictable on both road and track but suffer from more understeer.
As for havoc's comments about the rear end, it depends on the age and revision of your s2000. I personally think that the early cars are better on the track as they have considerably less understeer but the rear end is more twitchy. The later my04+ cars are much more stable and predictable on both road and track but suffer from more understeer.
lower said:
As for havoc's comments about the rear end, it depends on the age and revision of your s2000. I personally think that the early cars are better on the track as they have considerably less understeer but the rear end is more twitchy. The later my04+ cars are much more stable and predictable on both road and track but suffer from more understeer.
Very true and well put. I went from a MY00 to an MY05. The MY05 is much nicer to commute in and far more predictable in the wet. You get a bit of understeer before the back steps out rather than the suprise that the MY00 could give you! Still if having a fun drive the MY00 was probably a bit more fun in some cases........ It depends on what you want it for really! You pays ya money and makes yer choice!
Agreed on lower's S2000 model year comments, but disagree about B-roads - I found the DC5's Jap-spec suspension (esp. w/McP struts) to be more jarring and more of a liability on a bumpy road than the S2000's UK-spec (but shorter travel) suspension w/double-wishbones. Main reason I went for the car was it's composure.
Oh...and the advantage of double-wishbones is they're FULLY adjustable - camber, castor and toe front, camber and toe rear. IIRC the EP3/DC5 don't have any castor adjustment at the front, and not sure about rear camber.
Oh...and the advantage of double-wishbones is they're FULLY adjustable - camber, castor and toe front, camber and toe rear. IIRC the EP3/DC5 don't have any castor adjustment at the front, and not sure about rear camber.
Wow, this one got personal.
Bottom line is, FWD sucks, IMHO of course!!
As an aside, our S2000 is a jap import,and has the VGS system on it.I'd heard mixed reviews of it from other people and forums,but can honestly say it it the nicest handling "normal" car I have driven.It turns in so directly,and the variable ratio on the rack, just makes for a far more fun driving experience.It will progress into oversteer faster than some cars, but it's a characteristic that you know about the car, and react accordingly.I personally believe a large part of it's so called "widow maker" rep is down to a lot of people coming into the S2000 from fwd cars.Of course, when it oversteers, almost everyone knows how to get the opposite lock on, but how many people realise it's possibly even more critical to get the lock off again?
I guess this one will run a little more!
Bottom line is, FWD sucks, IMHO of course!!
As an aside, our S2000 is a jap import,and has the VGS system on it.I'd heard mixed reviews of it from other people and forums,but can honestly say it it the nicest handling "normal" car I have driven.It turns in so directly,and the variable ratio on the rack, just makes for a far more fun driving experience.It will progress into oversteer faster than some cars, but it's a characteristic that you know about the car, and react accordingly.I personally believe a large part of it's so called "widow maker" rep is down to a lot of people coming into the S2000 from fwd cars.Of course, when it oversteers, almost everyone knows how to get the opposite lock on, but how many people realise it's possibly even more critical to get the lock off again?
I guess this one will run a little more!
Back again. God what have I started. People seem to get very personal so easily.
''Bottom line is, FWD sucks''.... Normalbloke, I think this is a little harsh. Agreed it is not as good as Rear Wheel Drive. No one here would dispute that, but front wheel drive can be fun and IMHO is easier for an untrained or unskilled driver to handle.
Also, thanks for the comments on the VGS S2000. Very much appreciated. I had been in contact with a Japanese Company that had a 2004 VGS model for sale but was unsure about them. Would ya rather this or a non-VGS model?
I am also interested in how many people are saying that the S2000 is alot harder on B roads than the DC5. Are these the Jap Import S2000, the UK spec S2000 or both? I thought that UK spec one would be slightly softer than the Jap spec!! and as a result the UK spec one would be easier to live with than a DC5. Here in Ireland, in general roads are nowhere near as good as UK roads and a DC5 can be fairly hard to live with everyday.
Again to all those talking about the DC2, I do think it's a good car but I don't want to buy another FWD car. Plus I don't like the looks and most of the cars I've seen look like they've been driven by a blind man (trashed).
Also, thanks for the comments on the differences of the S2000 from '99 to '02 to '04 and to the present models.
Anyone with advice on the E36 M3's? Any good? An E36 M3 or an E46 330ci, which would ya prefer? Or anyone with advice on something else post a reply. I'd be delighted to read your reply. Now get writing!!!
''Bottom line is, FWD sucks''.... Normalbloke, I think this is a little harsh. Agreed it is not as good as Rear Wheel Drive. No one here would dispute that, but front wheel drive can be fun and IMHO is easier for an untrained or unskilled driver to handle.
Also, thanks for the comments on the VGS S2000. Very much appreciated. I had been in contact with a Japanese Company that had a 2004 VGS model for sale but was unsure about them. Would ya rather this or a non-VGS model?
I am also interested in how many people are saying that the S2000 is alot harder on B roads than the DC5. Are these the Jap Import S2000, the UK spec S2000 or both? I thought that UK spec one would be slightly softer than the Jap spec!! and as a result the UK spec one would be easier to live with than a DC5. Here in Ireland, in general roads are nowhere near as good as UK roads and a DC5 can be fairly hard to live with everyday.
Again to all those talking about the DC2, I do think it's a good car but I don't want to buy another FWD car. Plus I don't like the looks and most of the cars I've seen look like they've been driven by a blind man (trashed).
Also, thanks for the comments on the differences of the S2000 from '99 to '02 to '04 and to the present models.
Anyone with advice on the E36 M3's? Any good? An E36 M3 or an E46 330ci, which would ya prefer? Or anyone with advice on something else post a reply. I'd be delighted to read your reply. Now get writing!!!
Johnny M.
My comments on FWD sucks were tongue in cheek,and in my humble opinion(IMHO)I really do not enjoy FWD personally,even my camper van is RWD....
I have only driven a standard S2000 in test drive situations,and obviously have a far greater mileage in the VGS that we own, so will reflect a slight bias.I do however stand by my comment that it is the nicest handling "normal" car I have driven.I also have a Caterham in the garage to give me some sort of baseline as to a reasonable handling rwd car.
Have you driven an S2000 yet?If not, go and do it,it may remove your indecision!
Hope this helps, and good luck with your final decision.
My comments on FWD sucks were tongue in cheek,and in my humble opinion(IMHO)I really do not enjoy FWD personally,even my camper van is RWD....
I have only driven a standard S2000 in test drive situations,and obviously have a far greater mileage in the VGS that we own, so will reflect a slight bias.I do however stand by my comment that it is the nicest handling "normal" car I have driven.I also have a Caterham in the garage to give me some sort of baseline as to a reasonable handling rwd car.
Have you driven an S2000 yet?If not, go and do it,it may remove your indecision!
Hope this helps, and good luck with your final decision.
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