Which is the best Type R?
Discussion
mp3manager said:
I'm not sure which is the best, as I haven't driven/owned them all, but the DC5 is the purest Type R.
The DC5 is the only Type R *specifically* designed to be a Type R...all the others were developed from lesser models.
The DC5 is the only Type R *specifically* designed to be a Type R...all the others were developed from lesser models.
Not sure if you're trolling or thick, but either way please leave the comments to those of us who know what we're talking about, there's a good chap!
1) DC5 is based off the EP3 platform
2) DC5 non-R versions exist in the USA and Japan
...in other words, it's IDENTICAL in concept to the DC2, just a bit lardier and less-communicative...
havoc said:
mp3manager said:
I'm not sure which is the best, as I haven't driven/owned them all, but the DC5 is the purest Type R.
The DC5 is the only Type R *specifically* designed to be a Type R...all the others were developed from lesser models.
The DC5 is the only Type R *specifically* designed to be a Type R...all the others were developed from lesser models.
Not sure if you're trolling or thick, but either way please leave the comments to those of us who know what we're talking about, there's a good chap!
1) DC5 is based off the EP3 platform
2) DC5 non-R versions exist in the USA and Japan
...in other words, it's IDENTICAL in concept to the DC2, just a bit lardier and less-communicative...
Not sure if you're trolling or thick, but either way please leave the comments to those of us who know what we're talking about, there's a good chap!
Have a look at Best Motoring Vol 2.
Yutaka Otobe, a senior Honda engineer, states that...(I'm paraphrasing here)..."the DC2 was developed from the base model first, but the new model (DC5) was specifically designed from scratch to be a Type R."
I don't believe a senior Honda engineer would lie....do you??
Now if you're man enough to apologise for your trolling remarks......I'll accept your apology and we can move on.
mp3manager said:
havoc said:
mp3manager said:
I'm not sure which is the best, as I haven't driven/owned them all, but the DC5 is the purest Type R.
The DC5 is the only Type R *specifically* designed to be a Type R...all the others were developed from lesser models.
The DC5 is the only Type R *specifically* designed to be a Type R...all the others were developed from lesser models.
Not sure if you're trolling or thick, but either way please leave the comments to those of us who know what we're talking about, there's a good chap!
1) DC5 is based off the EP3 platform
2) DC5 non-R versions exist in the USA and Japan
...in other words, it's IDENTICAL in concept to the DC2, just a bit lardier and less-communicative...
Not sure if you're trolling or thick, but either way please leave the comments to those of us who know what we're talking about, there's a good chap!
Have a look at Best Motoring Vol 2.
Yutaka Otobe, a senior Honda engineer, states that...(I'm paraphrasing here)..."the DC2 was developed from the base model first, but the new model (DC5) was specifically designed from scratch to be a Type R."
I don't believe a senior Honda engineer would lie....do you??
Now if you're man enough to apologise for your trolling remarks......I'll accept your apology and we can move on.
If you actually look into the car on which the DC5 Type-R is based you will find it is indeed a Civic chassis (the Civic came first) and the base models with lesser engines were launched before the Type-R variant). The shape was indeed the first in the "Integra" line that was designed only to be a 3 door (there were 4 door versions of all previous Integra models) but the base models were engineered and launched first.
Having ridden in and driven a few variations of the Type-R (which by your own admission you have not) I would say the DC2 is clearly the most "Type-R" of the lot. As much as I love the DC5 (shape, performance etc) it is not the purist Type-R and neither is it more "Type-R" than the DC2... only the very ill informed would claim so.
Ps. And the new Euro Civic is the furthest away from the spec of the lot.
mp3manager said:
Have a look at Best Motoring Vol 2.
Yutaka Otobe, a senior Honda engineer, states that...(I'm paraphrasing here)..."the DC2 was developed from the base model first, but the new model (DC5) was specifically designed from scratch to be a Type R."
I don't believe a senior Honda engineer would lie....do you??
Now if you're man enough to apologise for your trolling remarks......I'll accept your apology and we can move on.
I believe that:-Yutaka Otobe, a senior Honda engineer, states that...(I'm paraphrasing here)..."the DC2 was developed from the base model first, but the new model (DC5) was specifically designed from scratch to be a Type R."
I don't believe a senior Honda engineer would lie....do you??
Now if you're man enough to apologise for your trolling remarks......I'll accept your apology and we can move on.
a) A senior Honda man would try to market their new car by embellishing the facts and making it sound better than the outgoing one;
b) Some stuff would get lost in translation from Japanese to English;
c) When they were designing the EK4/DC2/DB4 platform they had not conceived of the Type-R sub-brand, but when designing the EP3/DC5 platform they were aware that there would be Type-R offshoots. That doesn't mean a fat lot in reality though...;
d) You're a muppet who has little real experience of Hondas so has to parrot what others have said without understanding the context behind the comment.
FYI, I have owned/driven the following
EK Civic VTi
DC2 ITR (x2), plus rides in JDM models
EP3 CTR (and stock EP3 Civic hatch)
DC5 ITR
S2000
...and I've passengered in an EK9 CTR, an ATR, and BB1/4 Preludes. I only need track down an NSX owner and I think I've got the set! I've been a Honda afficionado for several years, and have read extensively on their products and technology...so I think I just MIGHT know a little more than you do!?!
Now quit with the p'ssing contest and go somewhere useful...
bones33 said:
I am currently weighing up the pros and cons of buying a Civic Type R or a Accord Type R as my fun car.
Accord = more room
Civic = more fun
probly will end up with the civic tbh
Don't assume the CTR will be more fun (not if you're talking the UK car from 2001 onwards) - the steering was my main gripe with that car, whereas the ATR by all accounts acts like a more 'grown up' DC2 ITR...Accord = more room
Civic = more fun
probly will end up with the civic tbhWhere the Civic will score is in the quality of the interior and the mid-range of the engine...
havoc said:
I believe that:-
a) A senior Honda man would try to market their new car by embellishing the facts and making it sound better than the outgoing one;
b) Some stuff would get lost in translation from Japanese to English;
c) When they were designing the EK4/DC2/DB4 platform they had not conceived of the Type-R sub-brand, but when designing the EP3/DC5 platform they were aware that there would be Type-R offshoots. That doesn't mean a fat lot in reality though...;
d) You're a muppet who has little real experience of Hondas so has to parrot what others have said without understanding the context behind the comment.
FYI, I have owned/driven the following
EK Civic VTi
DC2 ITR (x2), plus rides in JDM models
EP3 CTR (and stock EP3 Civic hatch)
DC5 ITR
S2000
...and I've passengered in an EK9 CTR, an ATR, and BB1/4 Preludes. I only need track down an NSX owner and I think I've got the set! I've been a Honda afficionado for several years, and have read extensively on their products and technology...so I think I just MIGHT know a little more than you do!?!
Now quit with the p'ssing contest and go somewhere useful...
I believe that :- a) A senior Honda man would try to market their new car by embellishing the facts and making it sound better than the outgoing one;
b) Some stuff would get lost in translation from Japanese to English;
c) When they were designing the EK4/DC2/DB4 platform they had not conceived of the Type-R sub-brand, but when designing the EP3/DC5 platform they were aware that there would be Type-R offshoots. That doesn't mean a fat lot in reality though...;
d) You're a muppet who has little real experience of Hondas so has to parrot what others have said without understanding the context behind the comment.
FYI, I have owned/driven the following
EK Civic VTi
DC2 ITR (x2), plus rides in JDM models
EP3 CTR (and stock EP3 Civic hatch)
DC5 ITR
S2000
...and I've passengered in an EK9 CTR, an ATR, and BB1/4 Preludes. I only need track down an NSX owner and I think I've got the set! I've been a Honda afficionado for several years, and have read extensively on their products and technology...so I think I just MIGHT know a little more than you do!?!
Now quit with the p'ssing contest and go somewhere useful...
a) You're not man enough to apologise for your trolling and belittling remarks...probably beacuse you don't want to lose face in front of your peers.
b) You're unable to make a post without resorting to insulting remarks.
c) You've just broken the new revised posting rules. You have been reported.
mp3manager said:
You have been reported.
Fine.You came on this thread with a bold and unsubstantiated statement. I corrected both your factual error and your inappropriate attitude. If you can't deal with that then don't post stuff up as fact when it's not.
I stand by all my comments. You are a muppet.
mp3manager said:
stuff
I'm not looking for an argument; in this instance you're just not bang on the money.There's no need for you to be aggressive with people who know rather a lot about Honda in general, just because you've seen a bit of Best Motoring.
Anyway, by your critieria, the most pure Type-R would be the NSX, on the basis that it was a bespoke chassis design made purely as a mid engined, rear wheel drive sports car, as opposed to a front wheel drive hatchback shopping trolley with some sporty bits bolted on.
I've only driven two Type-R's, the EP3 Civic and my current DC2 Integra... but I can say that the DC2 is way, WAY better IMO than the Civic. Probably no quicker, but that would be massively missing the point. The DC2 looks better, handles better, and is far more raw and uncompromising.
I'd love to experience some of the others.
All of that said, I think generally speaking, you can probably say for certain that any of the DC2 or DC5 Integra's are genuine Type-R's, although from what i've heard the DC5 is more watered down / more civilised. I'm sure the EK9 Civic Type-R is possibly the most involving / fun / capable Civic. However, I would certainly not overlook the FD2 CTR either, although it arguably has more of the Integra's spirit than the EK9, apart from anything else, its HUGE compared to the EK9 (or DC2 for that matter). The Accord is obviously a good car. The NSX-R is the daddy.
I think it all started to go a bit wrong with the EP3 Civic Type-R. Yes they are fast cars, but the styling is a bit rubbish really, as is the steering, and the engine simply doesnt have the aural satisfaction of the B-series IMO. That said, I wouldnt rule out the JDM EP3, as for some reason, I think it looks a lot nicer, and has more power, less weight, and an LSD. The FN2 is a shame really. It looks gorgeous IMO, but its really rather crap from what I've seen of it.
If you are asking which is the best Type-R sold in the UK though, it can only be the DC2. I dont regard the ATR as being quite as good (though still very good), and the EP3 and FN2 clearly are nowhere near.
I'd love to experience some of the others.
All of that said, I think generally speaking, you can probably say for certain that any of the DC2 or DC5 Integra's are genuine Type-R's, although from what i've heard the DC5 is more watered down / more civilised. I'm sure the EK9 Civic Type-R is possibly the most involving / fun / capable Civic. However, I would certainly not overlook the FD2 CTR either, although it arguably has more of the Integra's spirit than the EK9, apart from anything else, its HUGE compared to the EK9 (or DC2 for that matter). The Accord is obviously a good car. The NSX-R is the daddy.
I think it all started to go a bit wrong with the EP3 Civic Type-R. Yes they are fast cars, but the styling is a bit rubbish really, as is the steering, and the engine simply doesnt have the aural satisfaction of the B-series IMO. That said, I wouldnt rule out the JDM EP3, as for some reason, I think it looks a lot nicer, and has more power, less weight, and an LSD. The FN2 is a shame really. It looks gorgeous IMO, but its really rather crap from what I've seen of it.
If you are asking which is the best Type-R sold in the UK though, it can only be the DC2. I dont regard the ATR as being quite as good (though still very good), and the EP3 and FN2 clearly are nowhere near.
mp3manager said:
havoc said:
I believe that:-
a) A senior Honda man would try to market their new car by embellishing the facts and making it sound better than the outgoing one;
b) Some stuff would get lost in translation from Japanese to English;
c) When they were designing the EK4/DC2/DB4 platform they had not conceived of the Type-R sub-brand, but when designing the EP3/DC5 platform they were aware that there would be Type-R offshoots. That doesn't mean a fat lot in reality though...;
d) You're a muppet who has little real experience of Hondas so has to parrot what others have said without understanding the context behind the comment.
FYI, I have owned/driven the following
EK Civic VTi
DC2 ITR (x2), plus rides in JDM models
EP3 CTR (and stock EP3 Civic hatch)
DC5 ITR
S2000
...and I've passengered in an EK9 CTR, an ATR, and BB1/4 Preludes. I only need track down an NSX owner and I think I've got the set! I've been a Honda afficionado for several years, and have read extensively on their products and technology...so I think I just MIGHT know a little more than you do!?!
Now quit with the p'ssing contest and go somewhere useful...
I believe that :- a) A senior Honda man would try to market their new car by embellishing the facts and making it sound better than the outgoing one;
b) Some stuff would get lost in translation from Japanese to English;
c) When they were designing the EK4/DC2/DB4 platform they had not conceived of the Type-R sub-brand, but when designing the EP3/DC5 platform they were aware that there would be Type-R offshoots. That doesn't mean a fat lot in reality though...;
d) You're a muppet who has little real experience of Hondas so has to parrot what others have said without understanding the context behind the comment.
FYI, I have owned/driven the following
EK Civic VTi
DC2 ITR (x2), plus rides in JDM models
EP3 CTR (and stock EP3 Civic hatch)
DC5 ITR
S2000
...and I've passengered in an EK9 CTR, an ATR, and BB1/4 Preludes. I only need track down an NSX owner and I think I've got the set! I've been a Honda afficionado for several years, and have read extensively on their products and technology...so I think I just MIGHT know a little more than you do!?!
Now quit with the p'ssing contest and go somewhere useful...
a) You're not man enough to apologise for your trolling and belittling remarks...probably beacuse you don't want to lose face in front of your peers.
b) You're unable to make a post without resorting to insulting remarks.
c) You've just broken the new revised posting rules. You have been reported.
a) You're the equivalent of a wikipedia administrator, one hint of trouble and you're off crying like a child with no rattle
b) You wont accept someone else's opinion on a subject
c) You're a cock
get over to www.accordr.org for information, cars for sale etc
Hey Bones, I was only trying to throw a bit of a curve ball with my ATR comments. I was initially after a DC2, and came out with an ATR. It is well worth considering, if you drive one and rule it out then fine, but you may never know what you've missed unless you check it out.
Most of us don't publicise it much as we don't want everyone else to know about our little secret, check it our on accordR though as mentioned by ALawson. I owned mine for 4 years and the only thing that made me sell up was the FD2. Most other cars simply don't compare.
Most of us don't publicise it much as we don't want everyone else to know about our little secret, check it our on accordR though as mentioned by ALawson. I owned mine for 4 years and the only thing that made me sell up was the FD2. Most other cars simply don't compare.
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