DC5 Integra Versus S2000
Discussion
JM,
I test-drove a DC5 and an S2000 on similar roads, and IMHO there is no contest - a UKDM S2000 is MUCH better behaved on a bumpy B-road - with the DC5 I felt both bump-steer AND torque steer on poor tarmac, and I actually aborted an overtake because the r-h wheels were too close (c.1ft) to the rhs of the road and the wheel was writhing in my hand...I couldn't be sure where I was going to end up!
I did a long comparison of the two on S2ki back in the Spring (I'm havoc UK on there as some septic's got my name!), but in summary there's little difference in feedback - neither fantastic, but IMHO S2000 easier to improve; little difference in straight-line performance; and little difference in dry grip (S2000 probably edges both). How they go about it is completely different, though, and unless you need 4 seats or a big boot, get the S. But drive it steady in the wet, and possibly with different tyres on.
For me, personally, if I could only ever have one performance car it'd be a DC2...it's better on a B-road than both the others, more feedback, more confidence-inspiring, rarer and above all I can hoon it in the wet with near-abandon, so predictable is the handling. But I'm getting to like rwd, and the S2000 is a more challenging steer than the DC2.
I test-drove a DC5 and an S2000 on similar roads, and IMHO there is no contest - a UKDM S2000 is MUCH better behaved on a bumpy B-road - with the DC5 I felt both bump-steer AND torque steer on poor tarmac, and I actually aborted an overtake because the r-h wheels were too close (c.1ft) to the rhs of the road and the wheel was writhing in my hand...I couldn't be sure where I was going to end up!
I did a long comparison of the two on S2ki back in the Spring (I'm havoc UK on there as some septic's got my name!), but in summary there's little difference in feedback - neither fantastic, but IMHO S2000 easier to improve; little difference in straight-line performance; and little difference in dry grip (S2000 probably edges both). How they go about it is completely different, though, and unless you need 4 seats or a big boot, get the S. But drive it steady in the wet, and possibly with different tyres on.
For me, personally, if I could only ever have one performance car it'd be a DC2...it's better on a B-road than both the others, more feedback, more confidence-inspiring, rarer and above all I can hoon it in the wet with near-abandon, so predictable is the handling. But I'm getting to like rwd, and the S2000 is a more challenging steer than the DC2.
normalbloke said:
"and the S2000 is a more challenging steer than the DC2."
You've said enough in that little snippet....
You've said enough in that little snippet....
True enough...but look at which one I'd own first. It may be more challenging, but it's not necessarily more enjoyable.
And as regards rewarding, I'd say both are different:-
- the S2000, IF/WHEN you finally work it out, has a very good rwd chassis with an impeccable powertrain. It's just not the most informative or helpful machine as regards you learning it. By all accounts it's a marmite car, but for those that 'get it', it's a slow-burner which improves with age/familiarity. I'm still early-days there, ask me in a year or two...
- the 'teg, however, is a lot closer to the Caterham in the regard of 'learning' (albeit a fwd, practical Caterham) - it helps you learn it, tells you everything you need to know...although I was still pushing it's limits further and further after 3 years of ownership, which suggests some real depth of ability...again like a good Caterham!
Havoc did you drive the DC5 when it was still on the JDM Bridgestones? They are very hard and not suited to UK roads at all.
The DC5 does not have adjustable suspension on the front as standard just to clear that up as well.
My suspension is no longer standard so its hard to comment on this but one of the reasons I had it improved was down to the fact JDM suspension is for nice smooth clean roads which we don't have here. So some more suitable coilovers and some UK spec tyres and it felt alot more planted than on the JDM equipment.
The DC5 does not have adjustable suspension on the front as standard just to clear that up as well.
My suspension is no longer standard so its hard to comment on this but one of the reasons I had it improved was down to the fact JDM suspension is for nice smooth clean roads which we don't have here. So some more suitable coilovers and some UK spec tyres and it felt alot more planted than on the JDM equipment.
carfiend said:
My suspension is no longer standard so its hard to comment on this but one of the reasons I had it improved was down to the fact JDM suspension is for nice smooth clean roads which we don't have here. So some more suitable coilovers and some UK spec tyres and it felt alot more planted than on the JDM equipment.
I can well believe that. Trouble is, it opens up another £1k+ of costs, plus fitting, plus tyres, and THEN telling your insurance and getting a hike on an already loaded import policy. And a number of people wouldn't WANT to go down that route, esp. as they can't 'try' the suspension before they buy it.
Oh - re: adj' suspension - are you talking adjusting suspension, or geometry? I was talking about the geometry being 3-axis adjustable at the front on both the cars with double-wishbones. It won't be on a car with McP struts.
carfiend said:
Suspension geometry is not as standard adjustable. I have had adjustable top mounts and camber arms fitted with the Tein coilovers to give me some options with this.
Are you sure? I suspect (given the EP3/DC5 have a very similar set-up to my Focus) that you can adjust front and rear toe, and, to a lesser extent, front camber.
As you probably know, where this falls short of the DC2 / S2000 is that with them you can adjust front castor (very handy if your car has poor steering feel or excessive straight-line stability) and rear camber (very handy for adjusting the front-rear handling 'balance' of the car, in conjunction with rear toe). This is just one of the reasons why (expensive and space-hogging) double-wishbones are still considered the best dynamic option for a sporting car.
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