Nurburgring 2019
Discussion
This and another incident I witnessed first hand at the 'Ring make me very dubious about hire cars on track days. There is a very toxic dynamic of a limited amount of time/laps (that a driver knows they have paid for) and the compromise of track days, where you cannot in any way guarantee every lap is that 'perfect' lap.
I remember my first few visits to the Ring I hired from RSR, a few times I had just started a lap when it got red flagged...given they charge by distance trundling around the full lap at half pace still costs you the same which is a waste of money and v frustrating. You can see why some who rent are chomping at the bit to press on when the going is good but that can lead to big accidents that cost everyone track time. It would be pretty annoying to lose three hours track time from one incident. Given the high excess on the faster cars you would think that would reign people in a tad although I know they offer extra insurance to bring that excess down.
RSbandit said:
Given the high excess on the faster cars you would think that would reign people in a tad although I know they offer extra insurance to bring that excess down.
You would think so, I would think so, but then stupid is as stupid does and, the old saw about rental cars being the fastest prevails.Bad enough when it involves just the hirer and hiree, but when it involves other people's cars (their own property) it's a poor do.
IME, the track day organisers spell everything out in their driver's briefings. The spirit and letter of the 'rules' are very clear. I've met drivers from all over the world, many from places where English is most definitely not the first language - Italy, Sweden, Russia, etc. etc. - and none of them have had the slightest difficulty in complying with the rules.
And yet, there's always someone and, it's very often a someone in a rented car.
Oddly, when there have been race teams on circuit, their drivers do not seem to cause issues, despite pretty hefty speed differentials.
IME, the track day organisers spell everything out in their driver's briefings. The spirit and letter of the 'rules' are very clear. I've met drivers from all over the world, many from places where English is most definitely not the first language - Italy, Sweden, Russia, etc. etc. - and none of them have had the slightest difficulty in complying with the rules.
And yet, there's always someone and, it's very often a someone in a rented car.
Oddly, when there have been race teams on circuit, their drivers do not seem to cause issues, despite pretty hefty speed differentials.
I remember last yr on the DN 20 event there were instances of cars overtaking on the wrong side and in my case they were exclusively EU reg cars same with a pal...I figured perhaps because the briefing was in English that the point about overtaking on the left only had been lost on the non native English speakers.
RSbandit said:
I remember last yr on the DN 20 event there were instances of cars overtaking on the wrong side and in my case they were exclusively EU reg cars same with a pal...I figured perhaps because the briefing was in English that the point about overtaking on the left only had been lost on the non native English speakers.
I've only seen the odd instance where that might be the case, but with the rentals, I've seen all sorts of discourteous and potentially dangerous antics. Probably the most blatant was a car carving through the traffic on the early morning sighting laps, where everyone was told these were to be no overtaking, whatsoever. I saw the **** coming through the traffic behind me, so made room, but you could see cars in front, perhaps less experienced, almost being shocked off the circuit.fridaypassion said:
A few years ago I had a chat with Ron the number of cars they actually get paid out on for damage is not all of them apparently.
We were looking at some repairs on a 12c that someone had bumped and literally skipped the country. Cards cancelled. Bye! Apparently standard procedure.
Not sure it would work as in theory you have pre authorised the card so the card company have a right to honour the payment. It may have changed to what I've said since you spoke to him as that's the process nowWe were looking at some repairs on a 12c that someone had bumped and literally skipped the country. Cards cancelled. Bye! Apparently standard procedure.
Kev_Mk3 said:
fridaypassion said:
A few years ago I had a chat with Ron the number of cars they actually get paid out on for damage is not all of them apparently.
We were looking at some repairs on a 12c that someone had bumped and literally skipped the country. Cards cancelled. Bye! Apparently standard procedure.
Not sure it would work as in theory you have pre authorised the card so the card company have a right to honour the payment. It may have changed to what I've said since you spoke to him as that's the process nowWe were looking at some repairs on a 12c that someone had bumped and literally skipped the country. Cards cancelled. Bye! Apparently standard procedure.
Digga said:
Kev_Mk3 said:
fridaypassion said:
A few years ago I had a chat with Ron the number of cars they actually get paid out on for damage is not all of them apparently.
We were looking at some repairs on a 12c that someone had bumped and literally skipped the country. Cards cancelled. Bye! Apparently standard procedure.
Not sure it would work as in theory you have pre authorised the card so the card company have a right to honour the payment. It may have changed to what I've said since you spoke to him as that's the process nowWe were looking at some repairs on a 12c that someone had bumped and literally skipped the country. Cards cancelled. Bye! Apparently standard procedure.
I was discussing this with some friends when we were there for TF two weeks ago.
A rented 3-series came off on the flatbed after a track closure, and there was no doubt that was a complete loss.
One of the guys I was there with said that there was no way of insuring against being liable for the total cost of the car in the event it's written off.
That seemed absolutely staggering. I realise there's a fair level of risk, but surely there's someone who will underwrite it...?
A rented 3-series came off on the flatbed after a track closure, and there was no doubt that was a complete loss.
One of the guys I was there with said that there was no way of insuring against being liable for the total cost of the car in the event it's written off.
That seemed absolutely staggering. I realise there's a fair level of risk, but surely there's someone who will underwrite it...?
C70R said:
I was discussing this with some friends when we were there for TF two weeks ago.
A rented 3-series came off on the flatbed after a track closure, and there was no doubt that was a complete loss.
One of the guys I was there with said that there was no way of insuring against being liable for the total cost of the car in the event it's written off.
That seemed absolutely staggering. I realise there's a fair level of risk, but surely there's someone who will underwrite it...?
The minute you have insurance the risks people take would go up substantially. A rented 3-series came off on the flatbed after a track closure, and there was no doubt that was a complete loss.
One of the guys I was there with said that there was no way of insuring against being liable for the total cost of the car in the event it's written off.
That seemed absolutely staggering. I realise there's a fair level of risk, but surely there's someone who will underwrite it...?
Digga said:
xjay1337 said:
The minute you have insurance the risks people take would go up substantially.
I'm not actually sure that is possible, given what I have personally witnessed. At least third parties might have a chance of recompense though.I'd be surprised if this is being done as a behaviour deterrent, to be honest.
windymissile said:
The hire companies are insured against this type of total loss but you have their excess pre-authorised on your card before driving away. It's usually a hefty amount but not the entire cost of the car. I'd hazard a rough £15-20k for that M2 so entirely possible against a card.
So you're saying that the cost to that chap who totalled the 3-series probably wasn't the full value, just the excess (whatever that figure may be)?C70R said:
windymissile said:
The hire companies are insured against this type of total loss but you have their excess pre-authorised on your card before driving away. It's usually a hefty amount but not the entire cost of the car. I'd hazard a rough £15-20k for that M2 so entirely possible against a card.
So you're saying that the cost to that chap who totalled the 3-series probably wasn't the full value, just the excess (whatever that figure may be)?Still a large figure.
Only he and the rental company will know what the true cost is.
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