Why £10 for passengers at trackdays?
Discussion
It isnt so much money when you put it like that. But it is a LOT of money, when you have 5 or 6 people turning up at a day, to do 6 or 7 laps as a passenger. One person all day, yep £10 not so bad. However paying £60 for 6 people to do 7 laps, in my car, using my tyres and fuel, is a joke. Especially when that equates to about 45mins of track time, at the most.
rallycross said:
quite simple... they have to make money.
Is £10 so much?
no.
It isn't, but when some organisers don't charge for passengers, it seems a bit much - it then becomes clearly a 'fleece the customer' exercise - it clearly is no extra cost or effort to the organisers!
When it is often the circuit-owned trackdays (who have plenty of cash) that are charging this, not the independents who are deserving of our support, it becomes doubly dubious.
havoc said:
quite simple... they have to make money.
Is £10 so much?
no.
It isn't, but when some organisers don't charge for passengers, it seems a bit much - it then becomes clearly a 'fleece the customer' exercise - it clearly is no extra cost or effort to the organisers!
When it is often the circuit-owned trackdays (who have plenty of cash) that are charging this, not the independents who are deserving of our support, it becomes doubly dubious.
I found it difficult to set prices, although mine was slightly different as I didnt allow any passengers as I ran Bike days.
But often or not the circuit ran their own days so would fix the price for a trackday, and then fix the price for the rental of the circuit. Either way I was strangled on either side.
We had a loyal following, and apart from some bad choice of tracks, we had some great days. But it wasnt easy, and as Ive seen 100% bikes fell foul of the trackday demon, that steals your house!!
I don't organise track days.
If anyone thinks that there is a massive margin in the track day or circuit business they are tragically mistaken as can be seen by the demise of some TDO's or the decision by RMA to largely ignore the UK market. Track days used to be considerably more expensive than they are now, we are actually all getting a great deal, circuits like Brands Hatch require an organiser to generate over £30k in revenue just to make a sensible profit - the risk is significant and the business is cash flow negative i.e. they have to pay MotorsportVision a major deposit to secure a date and then hopefully they will sell the places........
Likewise JP has a massive investment in a number of circuits, the rates charged by the council for Brands Hatch alone run to millions of pounds per year. If you don't want to pay ten quid to give someone a run round a circuit that for some people will be a once in a lifetime experience then quite simply don't do it, the alternative is the average cost for everyone goes up and then those who don't take passengers will be on the forum saying, "How come those that take ten people round Silverstone for a lap don't pay any extra.........?"
You can keep some of the people happy some of the time and ........
Stephen
If anyone thinks that there is a massive margin in the track day or circuit business they are tragically mistaken as can be seen by the demise of some TDO's or the decision by RMA to largely ignore the UK market. Track days used to be considerably more expensive than they are now, we are actually all getting a great deal, circuits like Brands Hatch require an organiser to generate over £30k in revenue just to make a sensible profit - the risk is significant and the business is cash flow negative i.e. they have to pay MotorsportVision a major deposit to secure a date and then hopefully they will sell the places........
Likewise JP has a massive investment in a number of circuits, the rates charged by the council for Brands Hatch alone run to millions of pounds per year. If you don't want to pay ten quid to give someone a run round a circuit that for some people will be a once in a lifetime experience then quite simply don't do it, the alternative is the average cost for everyone goes up and then those who don't take passengers will be on the forum saying, "How come those that take ten people round Silverstone for a lap don't pay any extra.........?"
You can keep some of the people happy some of the time and ........
Stephen
atomicrex said:
I think this is why the ATDO was set up, I joined for a year at some stupid sum, and gained nothing from it! In fact I still to this day dont know why it is there, it does nothing other than get rich!
This is NOT why ATDO was set up at all. ATDO is nothing to do with the finances of running track days. ATDO was set up to try and raise the overall safety standards of track days and to give the TDO's a strengthened voice when fighting causes such as the monopolies & mergers case with Octagon a few years back.
If you think your £160 membership fee for ATDO was a "stupid sum" and only went to "make ATDO" rich then it is no suprise you are no longer organising track days. ATDO is a non-profit association, run by volunteers (primarily Sarah@BaT and Melindi@GTDC).
Personally, I think that £160 per year to give the TDO's some weight when fighting insurance companies and the likes of Octagon Motorsport is a small price to pay - especially when you consider the financial impact to our business if such issues were ignored.
Note - this is not an official statement from ATDO - just the rantings of a man who has put a lot of time and effort into helping ATDO for no reward other than the security of the industry and his own business.
Jonny
BaT
jleroux said:
I think this is why the ATDO was set up, I joined for a year at some stupid sum, and gained nothing from it! In fact I still to this day dont know why it is there, it does nothing other than get rich!
This is NOT why ATDO was set up at all. ATDO is nothing to do with the finances of running track days. ATDO was set up to try and raise the overall safety standards of track days and to give the TDO's a strengthened voice when fighting causes such as the monopolies & mergers case with Octagon a few years back.
If you think your £160 membership fee for ATDO was a "stupid sum" and only went to "make ATDO" rich then it is no suprise you are no longer organising track days. ATDO is a non-profit association, run by volunteers (primarily Sarah@BaT and Melindi@GTDC).
Personally, I think that £160 per year to give the TDO's some weight when fighting insurance companies and the likes of Octagon Motorsport is a small price to pay - especially when you consider the financial impact to our business if such issues were ignored.
Note - this is not an official statement from ATDO - just the rantings of a man who has put a lot of time and effort into helping ATDO for no reward other than the security of the industry and his own business.
Jonny
BaT
Jonny,
By no means did I wish to upset you, but please explain exactly how the ATDO have actually helped?
Ok so £160 is very little to pay for a year, but at the time of running there must have been at least 40 companies and now there are over 50. This is approx £8k a year.
One of the reasons for choosing to give up was due to the increase in costs for the insurance. Mine rose from £50 per day to almost £300, and that is a major chunk of the profits especially as over the course of a year and running 40 events we had no claims. This made it hard to swallow, but I could see that the market was dictated by a few that werent so hot on their safety, trackdays were becoming more popular and what with 9/11 adding to the burden I can understand the industry increasing their costs to limit their exposure. But that said any work done to fight the cost of the increase was a good idea. I cant comment if anything has been achieved as I havent asked for another quote!
But I didnt see any results to stop the increase of the cost of hiring the circuits. The ATDO was in an ideal position to be stand firm and make the circuits become accountable and realise that the increases due to take overs was unacceptable. Heaven knows how much it is to rent the Brands circuits from Mr Palmer now, but I guess it isnt cheap.
As for the comment of its no wonder Im not in the business anymore, that was unfair and it certainly wasnt due to my thoughts on the ATDO.
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