Simplest Track Day Car £3k Non MX5
Discussion
The 206 is a possible call & I considered one until (after doing homework) I found that many need a new rear axle & they aren't available meaning a £500 refurb every few years...… I suspect that would rule that particular car out on the simplicity criteria.
TD of any description, just no!
TD of any description, just no!
braddo said:
I have to say I don't like this attitude at track days and I am not alone. It encourages drivers (particularly less skilled ones) in track sheds to push too hard and that increases the risk to other drivers massively.
Examples - having cars spin right in front of you can force you into your own accident or a collision with the spinning car; fluids or gravel or grass/mud on track from cars re-entering the track can cause other cars to slide off; red flags rob people of track time while a car gets recovered or the track surface is sorted out.
This attitude is why a lot of nice cars don't come to cheaper track days and stick to more expensive providers.
Coudnt disagree more. The track is the perfect environment to push. Its the whole idea of a TD and takes it off (to an extent) the place it shouldnt be - the road.Examples - having cars spin right in front of you can force you into your own accident or a collision with the spinning car; fluids or gravel or grass/mud on track from cars re-entering the track can cause other cars to slide off; red flags rob people of track time while a car gets recovered or the track surface is sorted out.
This attitude is why a lot of nice cars don't come to cheaper track days and stick to more expensive providers.
If you have a car worth protecting there's insurance, and that's why you sign the waiver. Your also confusing pushing the limits of the car with pushing the limits of the driver. The TDO's have responsibility to and in the majority do a great job patrolling driving standards, which keep them as safe as they can be.
loggyboy said:
Coudnt disagree more. The track is the perfect environment to push. Its the whole idea of a TD and takes it off (to an extent) the place it shouldnt be - the road.
If you have a car worth protecting there's insurance, and that's why you sign the waiver. Your also confusing pushing the limits of the car with pushing the limits of the driver. The TDO's have responsibility to and in the majority do a great job patrolling driving standards, which keep them as safe as they can be.
Just do us all a favour & post up when you are doing a TD & in which car if you would please?If you have a car worth protecting there's insurance, and that's why you sign the waiver. Your also confusing pushing the limits of the car with pushing the limits of the driver. The TDO's have responsibility to and in the majority do a great job patrolling driving standards, which keep them as safe as they can be.
It will help the rest of us stay clear of you!
E-bmw said:
Just do us all a favour & post up when you are doing a TD & in which car if you would please?
It will help the rest of us stay clear of you!
So how do you approach a track day ?It will help the rest of us stay clear of you!
do you just do a couple of laps and if you don't crash just carry on lapping at that speed or do you start off steady and gradually try and get quicker ?
Interesting article from EVO which partly answers my question
https://www.evo.co.uk/features/18232/cheap-first-c...
Surprising because I stopped reading EVO as it was six figure out of reach supercar, advert, mega car, advert, six figure etc, advert.. And so on.
https://www.evo.co.uk/features/18232/cheap-first-c...
Surprising because I stopped reading EVO as it was six figure out of reach supercar, advert, mega car, advert, six figure etc, advert.. And so on.
loggyboy said:
braddo said:
I have to say I don't like this attitude at track days and I am not alone. It encourages drivers (particularly less skilled ones) in track sheds to push too hard and that increases the risk to other drivers massively.
Examples - having cars spin right in front of you can force you into your own accident or a collision with the spinning car; fluids or gravel or grass/mud on track from cars re-entering the track can cause other cars to slide off; red flags rob people of track time while a car gets recovered or the track surface is sorted out.
This attitude is why a lot of nice cars don't come to cheaper track days and stick to more expensive providers.
Coudnt disagree more. The track is the perfect environment to push. Its the whole idea of a TD and takes it off (to an extent) the place it shouldnt be - the road.Examples - having cars spin right in front of you can force you into your own accident or a collision with the spinning car; fluids or gravel or grass/mud on track from cars re-entering the track can cause other cars to slide off; red flags rob people of track time while a car gets recovered or the track surface is sorted out.
This attitude is why a lot of nice cars don't come to cheaper track days and stick to more expensive providers.
If you have a car worth protecting there's insurance, and that's why you sign the waiver. Your also confusing pushing the limits of the car with pushing the limits of the driver. The TDO's have responsibility to and in the majority do a great job patrolling driving standards, which keep them as safe as they can be.
The above is what you disagreed with implying that you want people driving sheds out of control round the track & potentially involving others in their accidents.
loggyboy said:
Coudnt disagree more. The track is the perfect environment to push. Its the whole idea of a TD and takes it off (to an extent) the place it shouldnt be - the road.
If you have a car worth protecting there's insurance, and that's why you sign the waiver. Your also confusing pushing the limits of the car with pushing the limits of the driver. The TDO's have responsibility to and in the majority do a great job patrolling driving standards, which keep them as safe as they can be.
You are wrong; perhaps you don't listen well enough in the safety briefings? Track days are about fun on track in a safe environment and people don't sign the waiver to give licence to other drivers to take higher risks just because they don't care about crashing their cheap car. I am all for trying to find the limits on a track day but that doesn't mean people should be laissez faire about spinning and crashing - there are some racing series for that 11/10ths attitude.If you have a car worth protecting there's insurance, and that's why you sign the waiver. Your also confusing pushing the limits of the car with pushing the limits of the driver. The TDO's have responsibility to and in the majority do a great job patrolling driving standards, which keep them as safe as they can be.
It doesn't matter how well supervised a track day is - that doesn't stop people from running out of talent because they have taken a bigger risk in a 'disposable' car (i.e. trying to find the limits too quickly because, oh well, it won't cost me much if I crash and if I take out other cars that's tough s
t).The contrast between a MSV track evening at Brands Hatch and one of Goodwood's own track days was the biggest contrast I have seen. At the former, a bunch of clueless young blokes in cheap track sheds pushing too hard and making lots of other drivers anxious. At the latter - a single cheap track car and mostly high end road cars - Porsche GT3RS, GT3, GT4, 2 Caymans, McLaren 12C, Ferrari 458, Audi R8, TVR Chimaera, Aston DBS, Bentley Continental, Jag F-Type, BMW M2, Lancer Evo and older stuff - Jag C-Type, a 60s Ferrari Daytona (
), 80s Aston V8, Iso Grifo, classic racing Mini, Austin Healey. They were mostly being driven pretty gently but the drivers were still having a ball - and that's the point of track days.egor110 said:
Amusing that this has turned into a who’s got the biggest wallet exhibition.
Do you honestly think someone in a cheap car isn’t going to care about crashing just because the cars cheap ?
Of course they care you idiot , it’s still going to hurt regardless of what your driving.
It has nothing whatsoever to do with wallet waving. Do you honestly think someone in a cheap car isn’t going to care about crashing just because the cars cheap ?
Of course they care you idiot , it’s still going to hurt regardless of what your driving.
It is totally about attitudes at track days and that I object to people who go with the attitude that their car is disposable (and thus they will drive harder than they otherwise would, which increases the risks to other drivers and also the odds of more red flag stoppages, which rob everyone of track time).
braddo said:
You are wrong; perhaps you don't listen well enough in the safety briefings? Track days are about fun on track in a safe environment and people don't sign the waiver to give licence to other drivers to take higher risks just because they don't care about crashing their cheap car. I am all for trying to find the limits on a track day but that doesn't mean people should be laissez faire about spinning and crashing - there are some racing series for that 11/10ths attitude.
It doesn't matter how well supervised a track day is - that doesn't stop people from running out of talent because they have taken a bigger risk in a 'disposable' car (i.e. trying to find the limits too quickly because, oh well, it won't cost me much if I crash and if I take out other cars that's tough st).
The contrast between a MSV track evening at Brands Hatch and one of Goodwood's own track days was the biggest contrast I have seen. At the former, a bunch of clueless young blokes in cheap track sheds pushing too hard and making lots of other drivers anxious. At the latter - a single cheap track car and mostly high end road cars - Porsche GT3RS, GT3, GT4, 2 Caymans, McLaren 12C, Ferrari 458, Audi R8, TVR Chimaera, Aston DBS, Bentley Continental, Jag F-Type, BMW M2, Lancer Evo and older stuff - Jag C-Type, a 60s Ferrari Daytona ( ), 80s Aston V8, Iso Grifo, classic racing Mini, Austin Healey. They were mostly being driven pretty gently but the drivers were still having a ball - and that's the point of track days.
if you stick your nose up at an MSV day @ brands you'd LOVE a Castle Combe action day It doesn't matter how well supervised a track day is - that doesn't stop people from running out of talent because they have taken a bigger risk in a 'disposable' car (i.e. trying to find the limits too quickly because, oh well, it won't cost me much if I crash and if I take out other cars that's tough s
t).The contrast between a MSV track evening at Brands Hatch and one of Goodwood's own track days was the biggest contrast I have seen. At the former, a bunch of clueless young blokes in cheap track sheds pushing too hard and making lots of other drivers anxious. At the latter - a single cheap track car and mostly high end road cars - Porsche GT3RS, GT3, GT4, 2 Caymans, McLaren 12C, Ferrari 458, Audi R8, TVR Chimaera, Aston DBS, Bentley Continental, Jag F-Type, BMW M2, Lancer Evo and older stuff - Jag C-Type, a 60s Ferrari Daytona (
), 80s Aston V8, Iso Grifo, classic racing Mini, Austin Healey. They were mostly being driven pretty gently but the drivers were still having a ball - and that's the point of track days.
incidently, some people start in tracksheds then move their way up as and when they decide to invest more into their trackdaying. Tarring them/us with the same brush as the subset of society you're raging at is pretty poor imo.
braddo said:
egor110 said:
Amusing that this has turned into a who’s got the biggest wallet exhibition.
Do you honestly think someone in a cheap car isn’t going to care about crashing just because the cars cheap ?
Of course they care you idiot , it’s still going to hurt regardless of what your driving.
It has nothing whatsoever to do with wallet waving. Do you honestly think someone in a cheap car isn’t going to care about crashing just because the cars cheap ?
Of course they care you idiot , it’s still going to hurt regardless of what your driving.
It is totally about attitudes at track days and that I object to people who go with the attitude that their car is disposable (and thus they will drive harder than they otherwise would, which increases the risks to other drivers and also the odds of more red flag stoppages, which rob everyone of track time).
The solution is very simple though , you avoid the cheaper track days and stick to the more expensive operators .
BeirutTaxi said:
Hi guys,
Since I like deliberating, what do we reckon as to these options? :
206gti
106gti
Fabia VRS (the diesel one!)
I ran a 206 GTi before my current Cooper S, and it was an absolute riot - throttle balancing oversteer was a joy.Since I like deliberating, what do we reckon as to these options? :
206gti
106gti
Fabia VRS (the diesel one!)
They are light (~1000kg with full interior) and the engine is torquey, meaning that you don't have to work too hard to keep speed up.
The ~130bhp models are cheap as chips to buy (loads <£1k), and used parts availability is good with many being broken.
Ours (it was shared) was pretty damned robust through the time we had it too.
Edited by C70R on Tuesday 2nd July 13:04
I love the Puma - best steering feel and gear change of any road car I've ever driven.
But my god they rust. And if they're not rusting they're smoking.
Clio is looking like a great choice at the moment; strong mechanicals, not too rust prone, plenty of parts in supply etc.
I've partly gone off the R50 Cooper as they're a bit complicated under the skin - stupid and expensive engine mounts, weak gearbox, exhaust valves too small so they are prone to burning out, cooling system a tad fragile. And on top of that they are a bit too weighty for the power.
But my god they rust. And if they're not rusting they're smoking.
Clio is looking like a great choice at the moment; strong mechanicals, not too rust prone, plenty of parts in supply etc.
I've partly gone off the R50 Cooper as they're a bit complicated under the skin - stupid and expensive engine mounts, weak gearbox, exhaust valves too small so they are prone to burning out, cooling system a tad fragile. And on top of that they are a bit too weighty for the power.
egor110 said:
Crashing hurts regardless of how much the car is worth , your opinion that people in cheap cars are quite happy to crash is idiotic.
The solution is very simple though , you avoid the cheaper track days and stick to the more expensive operators .
The solution is very simple though , you avoid the cheaper track days and stick to the more expensive operators .
You need to brush up on your comprehension skills.Here are snippets from the other poster which I was responding to. He is explaining why he doesn't use his M3 for track days and has a cheap Clio as a track car.
loggyboy said:
...BUT without a doubt the biggest reason is I can carry the knowledge that if take a few mph too much in to a bend and end up in the gravel/armco all I have to do is find another £1k clio, transplant what I can from my wreck on to that and start again. Where as others may have to worry about the 'what if' costs are going to be, so drive at 80-90% even when they push on.
... both the cars and parts are so cheap you can pretty much treat them as throw away.
...
If you had been paying any attention to the track day forum for the 10+ years you have been on PH, Mr Egor, you would have noticed that this is an attitude that appears on a regular basis. It has nothing to do with what people can afford, but the attitude of SOME(!) drivers who decide to drive harder because they don't really care if they bin a cheap track shed. ... both the cars and parts are so cheap you can pretty much treat them as throw away.
...
That attitude raises the risks for everyone on the track day.
The attitude and driving standards are what matter, not the fact that a track car is cheap. I hope the OP and others can understand how important this is, especially if they are not yet very experienced in track days.
Edited by braddo on Wednesday 3rd July 23:24
I'd def go rwd, are some good options mentioned, but you do need to be aware that £3k budget would not really even cover decent suspension, cage, seats, harnesses etc let alone prepping it to track spec on a base car, & not even close if you are not doing the work your self, so really best to search for a done car.
I think you are wrong to discount mx5s especially as so many around already with the right mods, just get a non rotty one but as mentioned before mr2, e36 e46 etc.
I think you are wrong to discount mx5s especially as so many around already with the right mods, just get a non rotty one but as mentioned before mr2, e36 e46 etc.
iguana said:
I'd def go rwd, are some good options mentioned, but you do need to be aware that £3k budget would not really even cover decent suspension, cage, seats, harnesses etc let alone prepping it to track spec on a base car, & not even close if you are not doing the work your self, so really best to search for a done car.
I think you are wrong to discount mx5s especially as so many around already with the right mods, just get a non rotty one but as mentioned before mr2, e36 e46 etc.
You're falling into the usual trap of mistaking a track car for a race car.I think you are wrong to discount mx5s especially as so many around already with the right mods, just get a non rotty one but as mentioned before mr2, e36 e46 etc.
You don't need any of the things you've listed to go and have fun on a track. And that's what it's about.
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