Discussion
If you see the '205 as a track car' topic you'll see my looking at the possibilities of getting invloved driving as well as my new found passion to being driven on track days. What is the procedure with track day insurance, is it essential and are there companies who do it on an event by event basis? As I said in my other thread I don't fancy hitting someone in an expensive bit of kit and having no cover! 
Anyone have much experience of this? Any expensive stories/mistakes???
Anyone have much experience of this? Any expensive stories/mistakes??? You don't 'NEED' to have insurance on track (I never bother these days) - but you can get it if you want. Competition Car Insurance (e mail me if you want the tel number) will insure you on a day to day basis - a sliding scale of cover - but remember it won't cover engine blow ups or damage to other vehicles. It's also very expensive.
As for Track Day Organisers... Easytrack have now started a scheme where you can insure as you book.
Steve
As for Track Day Organisers... Easytrack have now started a scheme where you can insure as you book.
Steve
Dougie
(and at risk of stirring things up here)
Well I've never heard of anyone suing another driver from a trackday - but I was speaking to the boss of a well know track day organisation recently, and even though we all sign the indemnity forms, in theory, there is no reason why one driver should not sue another (either for damage to car or for personal injury).
This is one reason I stopped taking passengers I didn't know out on track, as if there was a shunt (even though not my fault) the passenger could theoretically sue me... and as even track day insurance doesn't cover this - I would be liable.
OK - a VERY slim chance of any of this ever happening - but it put the shivers up me. In a car like a Seven, at the speeds we drive... etc
Having said all that - you've more chance of getting hit by lightning on the way to the track than getting sued by a fellow attendee! I've been on dozens of track days and have only once seen two cars make contact. (Car and armco is another matter!)
In your situation... I'd get on track and have some fun and forget the insurance (just watch out for slow drivers in posh cars!)
(and at risk of stirring things up here)
Well I've never heard of anyone suing another driver from a trackday - but I was speaking to the boss of a well know track day organisation recently, and even though we all sign the indemnity forms, in theory, there is no reason why one driver should not sue another (either for damage to car or for personal injury).
This is one reason I stopped taking passengers I didn't know out on track, as if there was a shunt (even though not my fault) the passenger could theoretically sue me... and as even track day insurance doesn't cover this - I would be liable.
OK - a VERY slim chance of any of this ever happening - but it put the shivers up me. In a car like a Seven, at the speeds we drive... etc
Having said all that - you've more chance of getting hit by lightning on the way to the track than getting sued by a fellow attendee! I've been on dozens of track days and have only once seen two cars make contact. (Car and armco is another matter!)
In your situation... I'd get on track and have some fun and forget the insurance (just watch out for slow drivers in posh cars!)
Thanks Steve! Gonna be a little while yet before I have an adequete bit of kit, at Bedford on Saturday there was a 1.3 KA there surrounded by 150 MPH supercars. Hope he enjoyed himself but seems slightly pointless to me! Something stripped out a bit would be good. Great site by the way! As for passengers I certainly would enjoy going out with you. Oh, and don't worry, no sueing!! Can hardly wait to go April 24th with the 968 and legaleagleboy!
Several organisers have had their libaility ins go up ten fold since last year, due to potential to cover claims, etc including negligence.
In terms of bike trackdays, there is talk of participants needing ACU (auto cycle union - a sort of bike equivalent to the RACMSA) 'trackday license'. I've done tens of car and bike trackdays and people's knowledge of flags is appaling. This is the only way the marshals can communicate with people on track. People often do not heed the flags anyway. I have had several altercations where people are overtaking on yellows, or not slowing for stopped sessions under reds, etc.
If someone hit me at speed (esp on a bike) under non-green flag conditions and I was badly injured, I would CONSIDER taking out a private prosecution against them. Just cos it's a track, there is no room for
wits - 'all the gear no idea' sometimes. We all like a laugh, but the ability of some people constantly amazes me, not in terms of speed or driving technique, but of periphal awareness of traffic (often faster moving) around them.
Unbelievable at times.
Hopefully insurance won't be necessary (mandatory) from a liability perspective for some time yet. I'd be more worried about getting sued than doing 10k's worth of panel & chassis leg damage to the car....
My 10 pence worth anyway!
In terms of bike trackdays, there is talk of participants needing ACU (auto cycle union - a sort of bike equivalent to the RACMSA) 'trackday license'. I've done tens of car and bike trackdays and people's knowledge of flags is appaling. This is the only way the marshals can communicate with people on track. People often do not heed the flags anyway. I have had several altercations where people are overtaking on yellows, or not slowing for stopped sessions under reds, etc.
If someone hit me at speed (esp on a bike) under non-green flag conditions and I was badly injured, I would CONSIDER taking out a private prosecution against them. Just cos it's a track, there is no room for
wits - 'all the gear no idea' sometimes. We all like a laugh, but the ability of some people constantly amazes me, not in terms of speed or driving technique, but of periphal awareness of traffic (often faster moving) around them. Unbelievable at times.
Hopefully insurance won't be necessary (mandatory) from a liability perspective for some time yet. I'd be more worried about getting sued than doing 10k's worth of panel & chassis leg damage to the car....
My 10 pence worth anyway!
I agree with fergus, if someone was a twat and I was injured then I wouldn't rule out a private action.
People have to be aware that the "waiver" forms they sign are to stop you suing the organisers, NOT to stop you suing the other drivers. If someone hits you there is no legal argument why you cannot sue.
I happen to be insured for track driving, and if I put in a claim because someone hit me then my insurance company may want to pursue them for the loss, that's their decision not mine.
To be honest, how many drivers on track days realise this and didn't just sign where instructed to at driver sign-on....most of them I'd imagine.
People have to be aware that the "waiver" forms they sign are to stop you suing the organisers, NOT to stop you suing the other drivers. If someone hits you there is no legal argument why you cannot sue.
I happen to be insured for track driving, and if I put in a claim because someone hit me then my insurance company may want to pursue them for the loss, that's their decision not mine.
To be honest, how many drivers on track days realise this and didn't just sign where instructed to at driver sign-on....most of them I'd imagine.
Due to the nature of trackdays, and the potential high liklihood (sp?) of having some form of small incident, I think people may have to take it on the chin with regard to damage to a vehicle. Personally, I'd be far more concerned with a £100k bill from a personal liability standpoint than a bit of car damage. If people listened at breifings or understood/heeded flag signals, the chance of any contact is minimal - unless you are racing 
- not me your honour.
If you drive with the intention of driving home that night and everyone shares the same attitude then hopefully every one can have a chilled out day!
- not me your honour. If you drive with the intention of driving home that night and everyone shares the same attitude then hopefully every one can have a chilled out day!
fergus said:
I think people may have to take it on the chin with regard to damage to a vehicle.
Yes and no, it's a good attitude to have, but not legally correct if the person you hit has a grievance.
fergus said:
If you drive with the intention of driving home that night and everyone shares the same attitude then hopefully every one can have a chilled out day!
Again, totally agree but unfortunately there are always a fair few who are out to "prove" their car is superior.
RobbieMeister said:
With regard to Liverpool Victoria covering track days.
It's all very well with them telling you over the phone but has anyone had this in writing.
I am with them through Frizzel with my "everyday" car and will be putting my summer car on the road soon.
Thanks
Robbie
Good point. A "mate" of mine took out a policy with them this week having had verbal confirmation that the policy included trackday cover and coverage on the Nurburg Ring during tourist sessions provided the day was not competitive/no timing etc. Here is what happened:
The policy docs arrived this morning. No mention of trackdays. He telephoned LV, who now advised that he needed to be a member of CSMA (Civil Service Motoring Association?) to get automatic fully comp coverage on trackdays. He called the CSMA, but because he doesn't have any close relatives or friends who work for the civil service so he's not eligible to join.
So he telephoned LV again, and offered to pay them an increased premium, this was turned down by them. He acknowledged defeat on the UK trackday issue and moved onto the "grey area" of the annual lads weekend trip to Nurburg. Mentioned that during the tourist sessions in german law the circuit is a public toll road, german traffic laws are enforced by police, no timing & racing prohibited etc. Person spoke to the senior underwriter of LV who advised because of the value of the car he would not accept the risk.
Quite bloody appalling if you ask me.
DAZ
>> Edited by dazren on Friday 26th March 18:38
>> Edited by dazren on Monday 29th March 15:00
dazren said:
....and moved onto the "grey area" of the annual lads weekend trip to Nurburg. Mentioned that during the tourist sessions in german law the circuit is a public toll road, german traffic laws are enforced by police, no timing & racing prohibited etc. Person spoke to the senior underwriter of LV who advised because of the value of the car he would not accept the risk. >> Edited by dazren on Friday 26th March 18:38
I've been told that as it's a public toll road you could make a normal claim?
roygarth said:
I've been told that as it's a public toll road you could make a normal claim?
I used to drive the Ring on this basis. However my insurers have verbally told me I am not insured, and they are not willing to accept the risk due to the high value of my car. Rather than the cost of twisted metal, I'm more concerned of the possibility of third party claims, eg come around a blind bend and hit a crashed biker. Biker's wife then sues me for loss income from the family breadwinner, to cover the cost of raising their family for the next 15 years.
If it is not a problem I hope the size of the quote for a long weekend's coverage in June should reflect this!
DAZ
>> Edited by dazren on Monday 29th March 15:01
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