Struggling to Find Skilled Welders in Devon
Discussion
BGARK said:
It was a reply to the other guy, what's your point, name one business that cannot fail?
Not totally fail proof, but Rolls-Royce have a 20 year+ guaranteed order book for some highly specialised "products". Big defence contractors are a pretty safe bet- BAE, Babcock, etc. Anything nuclear is another.BGARK said:
Agreed, we have two kitchens, one new one being built now, showers and 3 guys live on site whilst finding their own places soon. Everything is is about helping the team and making it nice, what other purpose is their in life if not to help others?
Its funny how people make lots of assumptions..
Ok, well I said canteen, but nevermind, I'm sure it's all lovely.Its funny how people make lots of assumptions..
Hammersia said:
BGARK said:
Agreed, we have two kitchens, one new one being built now, showers and 3 guys live on site whilst finding their own places soon. Everything is is about helping the team and making it nice, what other purpose is their in life if not to help others?
Its funny how people make lots of assumptions..
Ok, well I said canteen, but nevermind, I'm sure it's all lovely.Its funny how people make lots of assumptions..
How do they afford a place of their own on £13 per hour?
BGARK said:
ATG said:
The point he's making is that you were exaggerating the benefits of the role you were offering. It's great that in an ideal world you'd like to be able to hang on to people for life, but clearly the offer cannot actually be a job for life because no one can guarantee that.
What have I exaggerated, they are all facts or I wouldn't be here adding another person to 20 people to the team?You are not offering a lifelong career. I'm sure you'll genuinely try to deliver that, but you're not offering it because it is not yours to offer. It is not under your control. All you or indeed anyone can do is to hope to be able to deliver that.
Fusion777 said:
BGARK said:
It was a reply to the other guy, what's your point, name one business that cannot fail?
Not totally fail proof, but Rolls-Royce have a 20 year+ guaranteed order book for some highly specialised "products". Big defence contractors are a pretty safe bet- BAE, Babcock, etc. Anything nuclear is another.Newc said:
One other point I make to my family firm clients when they are full of the recruitment "it's not just a job, it's a life and a career" is: yes, it might be for you, because you are shareholders. Everyone else is an employee, and behaves like an employee. If you want them to behave like a shareholder, give them shares.
OP: Any way your staff can earn equity in the business?
OP: Any way your staff can earn equity in the business?
DaveRed08 said:
Just to preface this by saying I'm not in the industry, but I've worked at 4 different companies in my career (finance) - 2 described themselves as a family/close knit team, one of which was actually partly a family business and the other 2 are large multinational corporations. The 2 that were supposedly a "family", had no end of underpaying, overworking, screwing me around on promises etc. The multinationals were much better at dealing with any issues, if there were promises made in reviews etc, they delivered.
Based on my experience, if a company referred to themselves as a "close knit family" or similar in interview, I'd actually view it as a red flag! I can't say that any of the potential staff you have looked at think the same, but I think it's worth pointing out that they may not value the community as highly as you do, partly because they haven't experienced it.
This is not aimed at the OP, but I've worked for a fair number of small companies.Based on my experience, if a company referred to themselves as a "close knit family" or similar in interview, I'd actually view it as a red flag! I can't say that any of the potential staff you have looked at think the same, but I think it's worth pointing out that they may not value the community as highly as you do, partly because they haven't experienced it.
They tend to bang on about "us" and "the team", but at the end of the day, if things go well, it's the owners who get the benefits, while the workers get a small Xmas bonus and a non-binding promise that they'll get a pay rise "soon".
So you may well be genuine, but you have to persuade potential employees that the "pay rise in future" is a genuine promise, not just the usual bulls
t.The point about stability and 'good place to work' is lost on the inexperienced; what do they have to compare it against? It's something you may cherish having been in bad situations with poor employers but for someone with no such experience it's a 'nothing' gesture.
We find out what the pay is for a position and offer on average 10% higher. We also offer high levels of pension contributions and life insurance. We also talk about the benefits of working at a small company but it's secondary to a good offer. If you're serious about the quality of life of your potential employee you need to first satisfy the obvious... Financial reward.
We find out what the pay is for a position and offer on average 10% higher. We also offer high levels of pension contributions and life insurance. We also talk about the benefits of working at a small company but it's secondary to a good offer. If you're serious about the quality of life of your potential employee you need to first satisfy the obvious... Financial reward.
I think the original post has already been answered pretty comprehensively. Just one point to add: living in a relatively remote place is a double edged sword. You can be lucky and find skilled people happy to earn less than they could elsewhere but you can also find that there simply isn't anyone there with the skills you need. If you were in Middlesbrough or Aberdeen you'd have welders aplenty, but at a price.
One thing that might help you is offering some sort of help with accommodation. There's a good chance that a welder somewhere is thinking they fancy something a bit different. They might be prepared to take a hit on hourly rate but they're not going to take a hit on the rate and then pay through the nose to live in a hotel or B&B for months while they sort stuff out. Or perhaps decide that nice as it is, Devon is not for them.
I bet there's pubs, guesthouses or static caravans a plenty round there and at this time of year they'd probably be happy to have a room booked out for a few weeks.
As for the company values, which as others have pointed out are pretty generic, doing something like this actually gives them some meaning: we're not just paying an hourly rate for your work but helping you make the move and properly welcoming you to the company and the area. In very round numbers an extra £5/hour for 40 hours a week is £200. If that could pay for 4 nights accommodation Monday - Thursday it might be better spent than upping the rate to £18 but still falling short of what bigger firms are paying and leaving the accommodation up to them.
They might love it and move permanently or they might help out in a busy period then move on. Sounds like it would be worth a go.
One thing that might help you is offering some sort of help with accommodation. There's a good chance that a welder somewhere is thinking they fancy something a bit different. They might be prepared to take a hit on hourly rate but they're not going to take a hit on the rate and then pay through the nose to live in a hotel or B&B for months while they sort stuff out. Or perhaps decide that nice as it is, Devon is not for them.
I bet there's pubs, guesthouses or static caravans a plenty round there and at this time of year they'd probably be happy to have a room booked out for a few weeks.
As for the company values, which as others have pointed out are pretty generic, doing something like this actually gives them some meaning: we're not just paying an hourly rate for your work but helping you make the move and properly welcoming you to the company and the area. In very round numbers an extra £5/hour for 40 hours a week is £200. If that could pay for 4 nights accommodation Monday - Thursday it might be better spent than upping the rate to £18 but still falling short of what bigger firms are paying and leaving the accommodation up to them.
They might love it and move permanently or they might help out in a busy period then move on. Sounds like it would be worth a go.
ATG said:
JPMorgan has $2.5 trillion of assets which is about the same size as the UK's annual GDP. Apart from having a pretty defensive "fortress" balance sheet, I think that puts it pretty squarely into the "too big to fail" category.
I was just talking in terms of UK engineering/manufacturing really. Driver101 said:
Hammersia said:
BGARK said:
Agreed, we have two kitchens, one new one being built now, showers and 3 guys live on site whilst finding their own places soon. Everything is is about helping the team and making it nice, what other purpose is their in life if not to help others?
Its funny how people make lots of assumptions..
Ok, well I said canteen, but nevermind, I'm sure it's all lovely.Its funny how people make lots of assumptions..
How do they afford a place of their own on £13 per hour?
Why are workers living on a fabrication/machining site?
Driver101 said:
Driver101 said:
Hammersia said:
BGARK said:
Agreed, we have two kitchens, one new one being built now, showers and 3 guys live on site whilst finding their own places soon. Everything is is about helping the team and making it nice, what other purpose is their in life if not to help others?
Its funny how people make lots of assumptions..
Ok, well I said canteen, but nevermind, I'm sure it's all lovely.Its funny how people make lots of assumptions..
How do they afford a place of their own on £13 per hour?
Why are workers living on a fabrication/machining site
I have worked all over the Uk the last 40 years staying in digs and the "3 guy living on site" does not sound good to me.
Edited by mick987 on Sunday 22 October 22:29
You've messed up the quotes Mick.
3 people living on an industrial site sounds horrendous to me. The more the OP posts the more I think his family business doesn't come anywhere near the standards he thinks.
He has been selective on the questions he answers and dismissive of any advice that doesn't agree with him.
3 people living on an industrial site sounds horrendous to me. The more the OP posts the more I think his family business doesn't come anywhere near the standards he thinks.
He has been selective on the questions he answers and dismissive of any advice that doesn't agree with him.
BGARK said:
By the way, skilled hands on jobs will be the only things left in 2 years time when AI has replaced most admin desk jockey jobs.
Most places can’t get some of the older management to go paperless or allow work from home. You think they are going to implement AI and get rid of massive portion of their workforce the within two years? Tigerj said:
BGARK said:
By the way, skilled hands on jobs will be the only things left in 2 years time when AI has replaced most admin desk jockey jobs.
Most places can’t get some of the older management to go paperless or allow work from home. You think they are going to implement AI and get rid of massive portion of their workforce the within two years? Driver101 said:
Driver101 said:
Hammersia said:
BGARK said:
Agreed, we have two kitchens, one new one being built now, showers and 3 guys live on site whilst finding their own places soon. Everything is is about helping the team and making it nice, what other purpose is their in life if not to help others?
Its funny how people make lots of assumptions..
Ok, well I said canteen, but nevermind, I'm sure it's all lovely.Its funny how people make lots of assumptions..
How do they afford a place of their own on £13 per hour?
Why are workers living on a fabrication/machining site?
Sorry not his house, his daughter's house because he avoided £55k of stamp duty by buying it in her name.
The thread where lots of people asked questions as it seemed a bit dodgy so he tried to delete his responses and then had it locked.
BGARK said:
By the way, skilled hands on jobs will be the only things left in 2 years time when AI has replaced most admin desk jockey jobs.
But everyone spotted the laughable AI generated crap you posted a few pages ago.Yes, AI will make a big impact and I tell my kids to think about roles that are "AI" proof - and hands on jobs are such roles - but right now you still need to pay the money to attract staff.
ralphrj said:
Driver101 said:
Driver101 said:
Hammersia said:
BGARK said:
Agreed, we have two kitchens, one new one being built now, showers and 3 guys live on site whilst finding their own places soon. Everything is is about helping the team and making it nice, what other purpose is their in life if not to help others?
Its funny how people make lots of assumptions..
Ok, well I said canteen, but nevermind, I'm sure it's all lovely.Its funny how people make lots of assumptions..
How do they afford a place of their own on £13 per hour?
Why are workers living on a fabrication/machining site?
Sorry not his house, his daughter's house because he avoided £55k of stamp duty by buying it in her name.
The thread where lots of people asked questions as it seemed a bit dodgy so he tried to delete his responses and then had it locked.
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