Struggling to Find Skilled Welders in Devon
Discussion
Pickle_Party_247 said:
swanny71 said:
As someone else said - b
ks!
I guess you’re one of those shiny arse “engineers” who wouldn’t know how to hold a spanner let alone use one…
If you're the one turning a spanner you're categorically a technician/fitter, not an engineer- and that isn't a bad thing.ks!I guess you’re one of those shiny arse “engineers” who wouldn’t know how to hold a spanner let alone use one…
If you're on the tools all day, you're as much an engineer as a nurse wiping patients' arses all day is a doctor!
blueg33 said:
It’s perfectly possible to be both. My son is a chartered engineer and a fabricator/coded welder. He does all the structural calcs, designs the way the supporting structure will be built and then hands on leads the small team that builds it.
That's very valid, but I took the other users to mean someone who's on the tools all day and isn't a 'shiny arse' sitting in an office plugging away at design calcs!Driver101 said:
I would say it's a bit more than not wanting to get their hands dirty. Too many manufacturing, fabrication and machine shops are filthy and dangerous. Working conditions are not satisfactory.
There are too many companies that want to pay skilled people poorly. A lot of companies in manufacturing are complaining they are struggling to get workshop staff. It's usually because they aren't paying well enough and they aren't a good place to work. Offer good wages and be a good place to work and you'll have your pick of skilled people.
There is usually a divide in companies between the workshops and the office. The us and them mentality is growing. Companies do treat office based staff better than the workshop staff.
Terms and conditions for the office based workers are better than the workshop. Good salaries for not the hardest day's work in the office. Workshop staff are made to feel that shift allowance, for working anti social hours, and having to work long overtime hours are a bonus that equals things up.
The production bonus schemes have also heavily favored the office staff including office staff not directly linked to production.
Covid made it worse. Watching so many other people from the office doing next to nothing when working from home whilst the workshop based employees were asked to attend work and take on additional duties left a sour taste. Office staff have retained hybrid working. Mondays, Fridays and sunny days makes the office quiet.
I don't blame youngsters for not wanting to get involved in the manufacturing industry on the shop floor.
Yup. I remember working for the electric board in the 90s.. we got the cheapest of everything, nasty Sherpa vans, cheap tools, cheap nasty boots and PPE etc. then you'd go into the engineers / admin office and they'd have all the lastest states of the art ergonomic chairs etc .There are too many companies that want to pay skilled people poorly. A lot of companies in manufacturing are complaining they are struggling to get workshop staff. It's usually because they aren't paying well enough and they aren't a good place to work. Offer good wages and be a good place to work and you'll have your pick of skilled people.
There is usually a divide in companies between the workshops and the office. The us and them mentality is growing. Companies do treat office based staff better than the workshop staff.
Terms and conditions for the office based workers are better than the workshop. Good salaries for not the hardest day's work in the office. Workshop staff are made to feel that shift allowance, for working anti social hours, and having to work long overtime hours are a bonus that equals things up.
The production bonus schemes have also heavily favored the office staff including office staff not directly linked to production.
Covid made it worse. Watching so many other people from the office doing next to nothing when working from home whilst the workshop based employees were asked to attend work and take on additional duties left a sour taste. Office staff have retained hybrid working. Mondays, Fridays and sunny days makes the office quiet.
I don't blame youngsters for not wanting to get involved in the manufacturing industry on the shop floor.
Edited by Driver101 on Friday 20th October 09:58
But the them-and-us goes evan deeper today... A lot of The them have no hands on skills whatsoever, there's an utter ineptness to do the most basic tasks and it manifests a lot of the time as cluelessness about what the we do, leading to idiotic expectations and not to mention them being robbed blind. They contemptuously thought they could just "get a load of foreigners to do it" (and if you think that statement makes me the r-word one you need to read it less superficiality)
I think a lot of the reason is a distilling of education by an increasing narrow-thinking minority. (not education alone but that aspect is very pertinent here, but the discussion is far reaching). I read in a trade magazine the other day that 25% of my industry are neuro-diverse. I'm surprised it's that low, but it's nice it's no longer being talked about as an "actual" disability, because it isn't. It's (I believe) a manifestation of minds that don't think the exact way the idiots in charge think we all do/should. And it is bubbling up and manifesting at increasing rates - what is the reason for that?
The irony now is I'm on a exit strategy to a country that both values trades and has a functional healthcare system, and yet my business is booming, I'm charging more and more. There aren't the trades out there, there's an increasing inability to get anything done that reminds me a little of the breakdown depicted in the novel atlas shrugged.
OP you need to pay more $, and by the way that post you made pontificating about your business makes the us projectile vomit. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and consider your outlook genuine but I doubt you're anywhere near as ingrained with those that work for you as you think.
A once great manufacturing industry ruined by decades of under investment and pure incompetence is to blame for the mess we are in today, you saw it coming in the late 70's and 80's old worn out kit, arrogent management with the we know better than everyone attitude who were completely unwilling to change, all this plus a low regard to tradesmen and unwilling to pay a decent wage for a skilled professional.
As an example up until a year ago I was working for an NHS trust doing maintenance this job was classed as band 4, the top rate for a time served tradesman was £26,500 (I understand its a bit more now) and they could not understand why there was a horrific staff recruitment and retention problem...stuck in their ways old attitudes to blame here they were 100% unwilling to change.
Where I work now thankfully is different, they have big contracts and an on-going recruitment drive to attract people to come work here, just recently a 10% wage increase was offered to the trades which was accepted, this to me showed the company understood what had to be done to bring tradesman in but also to keep them here...not a bad move don't you think.
As an example up until a year ago I was working for an NHS trust doing maintenance this job was classed as band 4, the top rate for a time served tradesman was £26,500 (I understand its a bit more now) and they could not understand why there was a horrific staff recruitment and retention problem...stuck in their ways old attitudes to blame here they were 100% unwilling to change.
Where I work now thankfully is different, they have big contracts and an on-going recruitment drive to attract people to come work here, just recently a 10% wage increase was offered to the trades which was accepted, this to me showed the company understood what had to be done to bring tradesman in but also to keep them here...not a bad move don't you think.
Edited by Klippie on Sunday 12th November 14:13
Klippie said:
A once great manufacturing industry ruined by decades of under investment and pure incompetence is to blame for the mess we are in today, you saw it coming in the late 70's and 80's old worn out kit, arrogent management with the we know better than everyone attitude who were completely unwilling to change, all this plus a low regard to tradesmen and unwilling to pay a decent wage for a skilled professional.
As an example up until a year ago I was working for an NHS trust doing maintenance this job was classed as band 4, the top rate for a time served tradesman was £26,500 (I understand its a bit more now) and they could not understand why there was a horrific staff recruitment and retention problem...stuck in their ways old attitudes to blame here they were 100% unwilling to change.
Where I work now thankfully is different, they have big contracts and an on-going recruitment drive to attract people to come work here, just recently a 10% wage increase was offered to the trades which was accepted, this to me showed the company understood what had to be done to bring tradesman in but also to keep them here...not a bad move don't you think.
NHS is like that at every level. They approached me a month ago as they wanted a specialist in estate rationalisation and refinancing. They wanted at least 10 years of exec director experience in a complex commercial environment. The salary was exactly half of my current base with no ability to earn a bonus. As an example up until a year ago I was working for an NHS trust doing maintenance this job was classed as band 4, the top rate for a time served tradesman was £26,500 (I understand its a bit more now) and they could not understand why there was a horrific staff recruitment and retention problem...stuck in their ways old attitudes to blame here they were 100% unwilling to change.
Where I work now thankfully is different, they have big contracts and an on-going recruitment drive to attract people to come work here, just recently a 10% wage increase was offered to the trades which was accepted, this to me showed the company understood what had to be done to bring tradesman in but also to keep them here...not a bad move don't you think.
Edited by Klippie on Sunday 12th November 14:13
The old adage Pay peanuts get monkeys, would apply except there is a shortage of monkeys.
blueg33 said:
Klippie said:
A once great manufacturing industry ruined by decades of under investment and pure incompetence is to blame for the mess we are in today, you saw it coming in the late 70's and 80's old worn out kit, arrogent management with the we know better than everyone attitude who were completely unwilling to change, all this plus a low regard to tradesmen and unwilling to pay a decent wage for a skilled professional.
As an example up until a year ago I was working for an NHS trust doing maintenance this job was classed as band 4, the top rate for a time served tradesman was £26,500 (I understand its a bit more now) and they could not understand why there was a horrific staff recruitment and retention problem...stuck in their ways old attitudes to blame here they were 100% unwilling to change.
Where I work now thankfully is different, they have big contracts and an on-going recruitment drive to attract people to come work here, just recently a 10% wage increase was offered to the trades which was accepted, this to me showed the company understood what had to be done to bring tradesman in but also to keep them here...not a bad move don't you think.
NHS is like that at every level. They approached me a month ago as they wanted a specialist in estate rationalisation and refinancing. They wanted at least 10 years of exec director experience in a complex commercial environment. The salary was exactly half of my current base with no ability to earn a bonus. As an example up until a year ago I was working for an NHS trust doing maintenance this job was classed as band 4, the top rate for a time served tradesman was £26,500 (I understand its a bit more now) and they could not understand why there was a horrific staff recruitment and retention problem...stuck in their ways old attitudes to blame here they were 100% unwilling to change.
Where I work now thankfully is different, they have big contracts and an on-going recruitment drive to attract people to come work here, just recently a 10% wage increase was offered to the trades which was accepted, this to me showed the company understood what had to be done to bring tradesman in but also to keep them here...not a bad move don't you think.
Edited by Klippie on Sunday 12th November 14:13
The old adage Pay peanuts get monkeys, would apply except there is a shortage of monkeys.
Tells you all you need to know about their grounding in reality and ability to move with the times.
KAgantua said:
I read on here that of all the Local government 'bands' the lowest one had been below NMW for some time.
Tells you all you need to know about their grounding in reality and ability to move with the times.
quite often in public sector you moved up within bands automatically year after for simply attending - few private sector jobs do that. Then any payrises in addition.Tells you all you need to know about their grounding in reality and ability to move with the times.
My employer gave me a temporary 10% paycut for 6 months at the beginning of the pandemic "to preserve working capital" - imagine that in the public sector (and yes, i was working not on furlough). They actually wanted to do for longer - but i think they realised they were taking the piss.
I think I was on about £13ph as a second year apprentice back in 2013/14. £13ph would be a good starting point for someone fresh out of college with minimal qualifications and experience but not for someone who actually knows what they’re doing from day one and has the quals to back it up. As has already been said, pay peanuts get monkeys… or rather in this case no monkeys at all.
Is there opportunity to earn more? Overtime, weekends etc? If so has that been mentioned in the adverts? I think if you were offering £17/£18ph on a 40hr week for skilled fabricators/welders that equates to mid-to-late £30ks annually… that’s more like where I’d expect it to be for a base wage plus then OT & weekends taking it closer to/over £40k.
Is there opportunity to earn more? Overtime, weekends etc? If so has that been mentioned in the adverts? I think if you were offering £17/£18ph on a 40hr week for skilled fabricators/welders that equates to mid-to-late £30ks annually… that’s more like where I’d expect it to be for a base wage plus then OT & weekends taking it closer to/over £40k.
blueg33 said:
Klippie said:
A once great manufacturing industry ruined by decades of under investment and pure incompetence is to blame for the mess we are in today, you saw it coming in the late 70's and 80's old worn out kit, arrogent management with the we know better than everyone attitude who were completely unwilling to change, all this plus a low regard to tradesmen and unwilling to pay a decent wage for a skilled professional.
As an example up until a year ago I was working for an NHS trust doing maintenance this job was classed as band 4, the top rate for a time served tradesman was £26,500 (I understand its a bit more now) and they could not understand why there was a horrific staff recruitment and retention problem...stuck in their ways old attitudes to blame here they were 100% unwilling to change.
Where I work now thankfully is different, they have big contracts and an on-going recruitment drive to attract people to come work here, just recently a 10% wage increase was offered to the trades which was accepted, this to me showed the company understood what had to be done to bring tradesman in but also to keep them here...not a bad move don't you think.
NHS is like that at every level. They approached me a month ago as they wanted a specialist in estate rationalisation and refinancing. They wanted at least 10 years of exec director experience in a complex commercial environment. The salary was exactly half of my current base with no ability to earn a bonus. As an example up until a year ago I was working for an NHS trust doing maintenance this job was classed as band 4, the top rate for a time served tradesman was £26,500 (I understand its a bit more now) and they could not understand why there was a horrific staff recruitment and retention problem...stuck in their ways old attitudes to blame here they were 100% unwilling to change.
Where I work now thankfully is different, they have big contracts and an on-going recruitment drive to attract people to come work here, just recently a 10% wage increase was offered to the trades which was accepted, this to me showed the company understood what had to be done to bring tradesman in but also to keep them here...not a bad move don't you think.
Edited by Klippie on Sunday 12th November 14:13
The old adage Pay peanuts get monkeys, would apply except there is a shortage of monkeys.
eliot said:
KAgantua said:
I read on here that of all the Local government 'bands' the lowest one had been below NMW for some time.
Tells you all you need to know about their grounding in reality and ability to move with the times.
quite often in public sector you moved up within bands automatically year after for simply attending - few private sector jobs do that. Then any payrises in addition.Tells you all you need to know about their grounding in reality and ability to move with the times.
My employer gave me a temporary 10% paycut for 6 months at the beginning of the pandemic "to preserve working capital" - imagine that in the public sector (and yes, i was working not on furlough). They actually wanted to do for longer - but i think they realised they were taking the piss.
Funny username said:
I start time served fabricators / coded welders on £23 an hour. (Rotating 3 shift though).
Large pressure vessels in Derbyshire.
£23 per hour plus shift allowance, or £23 including shift allowance? What's the shift allowance for a 3 shift rotation? 22% average? Large pressure vessels in Derbyshire.
Edited by Funny username on Tuesday 14th November 22:22
Gassing Station | Jobs & Employment Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff