Ridiculous working hours
Discussion
Van driving hours are one of the least regulated and enforced areas of the transport sector. I haven't heard of anyone being done for driving hours in a van but Birmingham-Barcelona or London-Budapest non stop are the norm ime and most drivers are self employed so are motivated to get the job done quickly. If you want to be a van driver then its all about Coffee Nation and Red Bull I'm afraid until the enforcement tightens up.
That said, driving is one of the riskiest activities one can undertake at work and any reputable company should have systems in place to manage that risk.
That said, driving is one of the riskiest activities one can undertake at work and any reputable company should have systems in place to manage that risk.
Super Slo Mo said:
To add further information to the original question and my first reply (before we got a bit off track), I found out yesterday that VOSA now have the power to impose spot fines for infringements of driving and duty hours, for both tacho and domestic rules.
<snipped>
Of course, that doesn't stop management in some cases trying to push drivers beyond the limits, but legally, the driver cannot be forced to do something which puts them outside of the legal requirements.
OK, here's why I left that particular company, <snipped>
Of course, that doesn't stop management in some cases trying to push drivers beyond the limits, but legally, the driver cannot be forced to do something which puts them outside of the legal requirements.
(It's 3 years ago, I've now got a Bulgarian license, and I burned all my Tachograph disks when I left)
My typical day started at 6AM in Fife, driving a company van ("other driving" but never recorded) to Edinburgh. I officially started at 7AM driving a 17 tonner to Perth, arriving at 8AM. The wagon was parked on a loading bay, the Tacho set to "rest", and I spent the next two hours or so unloading the wagon, sorting and palletising bulk consignments, and loading up for delivery.
I then drove it to Stirling, with half a dozen drops, including such hallowed places as Debenhams and Halfrauds. I'd then park up near the burger van in Springkerse and set the tacho to "rest" again, although I was actually 'on-call' for the entire afternoon in case a regular B2B courier had a bulky or heavy collection.
3PM saw the start of my regular collection round, ending up back at Edinburgh at 5:30PM, where I'd park it on a bay and 'close' the Tacho disk for my 'overnight' rest, but drove the van home again, another hour's unrecorded 'other driving', assuming the Forth Bridge wasn't closed due to the weather, in which case it could be two hours to get home.
For the entire 12 or 13 hours I was never able to "freely dispose of my time" (the definition of a break), and management were entirely complicit in this daily lawbreaking.
Hence I had to GTFO
well, we've now moved from van driving to tacho regs which are a whole different kettle of fish. Having said that, from a cursory glance at your schedule, bearing in mind I'm on my phone, so can't really cross reference anything, you didn't seem to be breaking any rules, other than loading on 'rest'. Tacho breaks are usually spent in the cab, although for your fourty five minutes break you can't move the vehicle.
Where do you think you were breaking the rules? I'm not being funny, just perhaps am missing a bit of detail.
Where do you think you were breaking the rules? I'm not being funny, just perhaps am missing a bit of detail.
Super Slo Mo said:
well, we've now moved from van driving to tacho regs which are a whole different kettle of fish. Having said that, from a cursory glance at your schedule, bearing in mind I'm on my phone, so can't really cross reference anything, you didn't seem to be breaking any rules, other than loading on 'rest'. Tacho breaks are usually spent in the cab, although for your fourty five minutes break you can't move the vehicle.
Where do you think you were breaking the rules? I'm not being funny, just perhaps am missing a bit of detail.
No proper 'rest' during the working day. EC regulations require an hour's rest after six hours work, during which you should be able to "freely dispose of your time". The only way to achieve that was to use the tachograph to record a rest while actually working. Being 'on call' is not rest, neither is loading. Driving to/from work in a company van counts as being at work, 'other driving', and has to be counted as part of the six hours. Where do you think you were breaking the rules? I'm not being funny, just perhaps am missing a bit of detail.
EC regs are every bit as important as Tachograph regs.
i thought ec regs and Tacho regs were one and the same thing. In this case, you're obliged to take a break after 4.5 hours driving, or 6 hours duty. Surely no one can tell you not to take a break? It's the law for starters. There is a slight difference though between a break and 'rest' in the working time directive sense.
'rest', as in being freely able to dispose of your time is subject to fairly strict criteria, and as such, doesn't count towards your daily duty hours. There's no obligation to be given 'rest' during a working day, but you MUST take a break Once you've reached 6 hours duty or 4.5 hours driving.
out of interest, why were you provided with a van for what sounds to me like commuting? It does count towards your 'other work' duty time though.
I should add that I'm a little rusty regarding all this, and have no way of checking up on it all until next week, so apologies from the outset if I get something wrong.
'rest', as in being freely able to dispose of your time is subject to fairly strict criteria, and as such, doesn't count towards your daily duty hours. There's no obligation to be given 'rest' during a working day, but you MUST take a break Once you've reached 6 hours duty or 4.5 hours driving.
out of interest, why were you provided with a van for what sounds to me like commuting? It does count towards your 'other work' duty time though.
I should add that I'm a little rusty regarding all this, and have no way of checking up on it all until next week, so apologies from the outset if I get something wrong.
Super Slo Mo said:
i thought ec regs and Tacho regs were one and the same thing. In this case, you're obliged to take a break after 4.5 hours driving, or 6 hours duty. Surely no one can tell you not to take a break? It's the law for starters. There is a slight difference though between a break and 'rest' in the working time directive sense.
'rest', as in being freely able to dispose of your time is subject to fairly strict criteria, and as such, doesn't count towards your daily duty hours. There's no obligation to be given 'rest' during a working day, but you MUST take a break Once you've reached 6 hours duty or 4.5 hours driving.
out of interest, why were you provided with a van for what sounds to me like commuting? It does count towards your 'other work' duty time though.
I should add that I'm a little rusty regarding all this, and have no way of checking up on it all until next week, so apologies from the outset if I get something wrong.
I had the van because, being 'Mr Flexible', I provided sickness and holiday cover for other drivers on special runs, eg. 4:30AM starts in Edinburgh, 7AM starts in Perth, The Manchester run, and most often late finishes after taking International parcels from Perth to Edinburgh at 6PM, getting home at 8PM. I never had a regular delivery run, I just got the s'rest', as in being freely able to dispose of your time is subject to fairly strict criteria, and as such, doesn't count towards your daily duty hours. There's no obligation to be given 'rest' during a working day, but you MUST take a break Once you've reached 6 hours duty or 4.5 hours driving.
out of interest, why were you provided with a van for what sounds to me like commuting? It does count towards your 'other work' duty time though.
I should add that I'm a little rusty regarding all this, and have no way of checking up on it all until next week, so apologies from the outset if I get something wrong.
tty jobs no one else wanted (and LOTS of overtime), so keeping the van made most sense logistically. The HGV run was the final straw.I also am rusty on the specifics, it's three years since I retired.
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