Call out payments ?
Discussion
When I used to do it standby was £3/hour during the week, £4/hour at weekends and on BH apart from Christmas which was around £6/hour. Cover was 17:00 to 09:00 during the week, 09:00 Sat to 09:00 Sun and 09:00 Sun to 09:00 Mon. When called out it was time and a half during the week, double time at weekends and BH and triple time (reduced from 4 times) on Christmas Day. There were only 2 of us covering it in the UK so it was pretty much every other day. Typically got called every other time I was on and had many nights & weekends spent logged in for 6 hrs or more. I think I did 4 NYE on the trot and got called out on every one of them. A good earner but my social life dropped off a cliff, it pi55ed off the Mrs no end and doing a full day then several hours overnight had a very negative impact on my health, I ended up suffering from sleep exhaustion. Glad I don't do it any more.
0.1x times our pro-rata hourly rate (we are on salary) when on call.
1x when called out
1.5x on saturdays
2x on sundays
17:30 - 0800 and we have been doing week on week off, but thankfully our third person is now up to speed and it'll be 1 in 3, and we've hired number 4 so we'll be one week a month then. Not that I won't miss the overtime.
1x when called out
1.5x on saturdays
2x on sundays
17:30 - 0800 and we have been doing week on week off, but thankfully our third person is now up to speed and it'll be 1 in 3, and we've hired number 4 so we'll be one week a month then. Not that I won't miss the overtime.
Cyberprog said:
0.1x times our pro-rata hourly rate (we are on salary) when on call.
1x when called out
That's absolutely gash.1x when called out
The 0.1 times bit amounts to about 1 hours pay for a weekday overnight. So a 3am-5am call out nets you 3 hours pay, what's that after tax, £50?
Hence why I detest OOH support, £50 in no way recompenses for a f
ked nights sleep and feeling like a zombie the next day.Olivera said:
That's absolutely gash.
The 0.1 times bit amounts to about 1 hours pay for a weekday overnight. So a 3am-5am call out nets you 3 hours pay, what's that after tax, £50?
Hence why I detest OOH support, £50 in no way recompenses for a fked nights sleep and feeling like a zombie the next day.
Absolutely agree. Those rates are ridiculous, unless you are a CEO where 0.1x your hourly rate means a single day of callout is enough to buy a decent house.The 0.1 times bit amounts to about 1 hours pay for a weekday overnight. So a 3am-5am call out nets you 3 hours pay, what's that after tax, £50?
Hence why I detest OOH support, £50 in no way recompenses for a f
ked nights sleep and feeling like a zombie the next day.If you're paying peanuts for the standby, you need to compensate the person when they get called. By definition it's overtime so it needs to be at an absolute minimum paid at the overtime rate. I reckon paying you at 1x is more then cheeky.
But even then it doesn't really compensate for the pathetic rate they pay when you are sitting waiting for the phone to ring, I'm amazed you managed to sustain week on/week off without cracking up (unless it's the sort of OOH cover where there is a 1 in 100 chance of actually getting called and it's a five minute no-effort fix like rebooting a server).
What really irritates me is when firms charge customers extortionate rates for OOH support (as they should) but then pull tricks like the above to actually provide it. The customer thinks they are ringing a fully-staffed, shift-based operations centre with everything at their fingertips when in reality it's some poor sod whose been dragged out of bed and is fumbling to boot up their laptop.
CobolMan said:
When I used to do it standby was £3/hour during the week, £4/hour at weekends and on BH apart from Christmas which was around £6/hour. Cover was 17:00 to 09:00 during the week, 09:00 Sat to 09:00 Sun and 09:00 Sun to 09:00 Mon. When called out it was time and a half during the week, double time at weekends and BH and triple time (reduced from 4 times) on Christmas Day. There were only 2 of us covering it in the UK so it was pretty much every other day. Typically got called every other time I was on and had many nights & weekends spent logged in for 6 hrs or more. I think I did 4 NYE on the trot and got called out on every one of them. A good earner but my social life dropped off a cliff, it pi55ed off the Mrs no end and doing a full day then several hours overnight had a very negative impact on my health, I ended up suffering from sleep exhaustion. Glad I don't do it any more.
Shocking, a company can/should get into trouble with that kind of workload when it starts to impact health.I used to get a £5000 PA uplift for being on call.
It would then be first hour included, then double time (on weekends), and 1.5 time during the week after the first hour too.
I did end up having to be on call pretty much 24/7, but as long as I had my laptop within an hour of wherever I was, then they didn't mind. It was also informally agreed that if the oncall would overrun past 3am you weren't expected in the next day.
It worked. I would bring in £1000 a month on top of my regular earnings with overtime, OOH work and such.
It would then be first hour included, then double time (on weekends), and 1.5 time during the week after the first hour too.
I did end up having to be on call pretty much 24/7, but as long as I had my laptop within an hour of wherever I was, then they didn't mind. It was also informally agreed that if the oncall would overrun past 3am you weren't expected in the next day.
It worked. I would bring in £1000 a month on top of my regular earnings with overtime, OOH work and such.
Well, been doing the call out since the 27th of Sept, still no payment. bear in mind this is a large international company, not a tinpot operation.
I got a bit more insistent and seemed like something was going to be sorted prior to the 5th which is payroll cut off, the issues seemed to be around moving monies about internally and I said well, that isnt my issue but as it is separate departments apparently it is very complicated, my job is complicated as well but I manage, i am sure they have moved money between departments before.
I checked on it and got told "Very sorry but this is being held up at a senior management level", apparently they aren't happy with the rate and it should have been on the lower on, but I didn't agree to that, I agreed to the higher one, works out to £330 vs £170 per week before tax.
They asked me to do this, the other chap who participates in the rota is on the higher rate, which was apparently used as an incentive to get people to do it, which is why I joined ! its unrealistic for one person to do it, I started and he went on a belated holiday for two weeks. The lower rate is for keyholders and responders etc, this is for out of hours database support, not something you can just drop on and do.
So now, on call this week, still not been paid and no idea when I will get paid, deadline for Christmas will go tomorrow so I wont see it this year.
I had to get up to speed in my own time, I cleared it with my manager as its a separate dept, I did everything above board and am now feeling pretty pissed off as could have done with that money as have had a very expensive few months with one thing and another.
Not going to mention it to them now until the new year and just see what happens, I have told them what I expect and I am not going to spit my dummy out, all very well making a grand gesture and telling them to stick it but would like the money on an ongoing basis !
How would you proceed ?
I got a bit more insistent and seemed like something was going to be sorted prior to the 5th which is payroll cut off, the issues seemed to be around moving monies about internally and I said well, that isnt my issue but as it is separate departments apparently it is very complicated, my job is complicated as well but I manage, i am sure they have moved money between departments before.
I checked on it and got told "Very sorry but this is being held up at a senior management level", apparently they aren't happy with the rate and it should have been on the lower on, but I didn't agree to that, I agreed to the higher one, works out to £330 vs £170 per week before tax.
They asked me to do this, the other chap who participates in the rota is on the higher rate, which was apparently used as an incentive to get people to do it, which is why I joined ! its unrealistic for one person to do it, I started and he went on a belated holiday for two weeks. The lower rate is for keyholders and responders etc, this is for out of hours database support, not something you can just drop on and do.
So now, on call this week, still not been paid and no idea when I will get paid, deadline for Christmas will go tomorrow so I wont see it this year.
I had to get up to speed in my own time, I cleared it with my manager as its a separate dept, I did everything above board and am now feeling pretty pissed off as could have done with that money as have had a very expensive few months with one thing and another.
Not going to mention it to them now until the new year and just see what happens, I have told them what I expect and I am not going to spit my dummy out, all very well making a grand gesture and telling them to stick it but would like the money on an ongoing basis !
How would you proceed ?
Sounds like a very hard position to be in if you aren't the kind of person that is happy to badger others to get what you should be getting. Very poor form from your employers and I would be looking for a new job ASAP. You work to live, not the other way around at the end of the day, so if you've been giving up your spare time for monies that haven't been paid then I am afraid it sounds like your employers are just taking the piss out of you.
BrabusMog said:
Sounds like a very hard position to be in if you aren't the kind of person that is happy to badger others to get what you should be getting. Very poor form from your employers and I would be looking for a new job ASAP. You work to live, not the other way around at the end of the day, so if you've been giving up your spare time for monies that haven't been paid then I am afraid it sounds like your employers are just taking the piss out of you.
Generally they are pretty good to work for to be fair, this is dropping between the cracks as it is between departments/divisions, I am funded and paid by one function and this call out is for another. They had two guys providing call out for a key system, one moved into yet another division and no longer wanted to be in the call out rota, he was aware of my skillset so put me forward, it was accepted, I was set up with a laptop, logins and all the required info and have been doing alternate weeks, I switch the phone divert over, do a connectivity check, have a look round and also keep in touch with the other chap about what's going on.
So, its difficult to rant at someone as my line manager has just change, new guy being helpful and doing what he can, the other guy in the call out rota is sympathetic, his boss who ok'd it is at the mercy of HR/Senior management and I dont have any names, otherwise its total ambivalence from our HR.
Otherwise, cant complain as its close to home, pays ok, can work from home and they arent usually a problem and dont get mithered to death, plus we dont work Friday afternoons, so am aware of which side my bread is buttered and not going to jeopardize that.
Regarding your last point, I really do understand that, hence me saying it's a difficult position to be in for you. But the inter departmental wrangling over which nominal account your call out fee should be charged to is nothing to do with you and I find it highly offensive that employers sometimes hide behind bks like this as you have done your job and should be paid your money.
ks like this as you have done your job and should be paid your money.BrabusMog said:
Regarding your last point, I really do understand that, hence me saying it's a difficult position to be in for you. But the inter departmental wrangling over which nominal account your call out fee should be charged to is nothing to do with you and I find it highly offensive that employers sometimes hide behind bks like this as you have done your job and should be paid your money.
My thoughts entirely, appreciate the solidarity, its like trying to get something sorted between bits of BT, ring Openwhatsit and they say you need to call Wholesale or something, then vice versa ! Basically in that situaiton I don't give a flying toss, which bit, to my mind its all part of the same whole.ks like this as you have done your job and should be paid your money.Nobody is going to starve, I am quite a placid kind of chap but I will never let things lie over financial matters. I have, to my knowledge never taken advantage of anyone in that manner and I really don't take kindly to having it done to me.
Been an expensive few months, youngest has gone to China with Uni (ker-ching) eldest got made redndant from TC so sorted him out, Christmas etc so would have been nice to get the money in, but not living hand to mouth, can wait but I like to have the cash before I spend it,
J4CKO said:
BrabusMog said:
Regarding your last point, I really do understand that, hence me saying it's a difficult position to be in for you. But the inter departmental wrangling over which nominal account your call out fee should be charged to is nothing to do with you and I find it highly offensive that employers sometimes hide behind bks like this as you have done your job and should be paid your money.
My thoughts entirely, appreciate the solidarity, its like trying to get something sorted between bits of BT, ring Openwhatsit and they say you need to call Wholesale or something, then vice versa ! Basically in that situaiton I don't give a flying toss, which bit, to my mind its all part of the same whole.ks like this as you have done your job and should be paid your money.Nobody is going to starve, I am quite a placid kind of chap but I will never let things lie over financial matters. I have, to my knowledge never taken advantage of anyone in that manner and I really don't take kindly to having it done to me.
Been an expensive few months, youngest has gone to China with Uni (ker-ching) eldest got made redndant from TC so sorted him out, Christmas etc so would have been nice to get the money in, but not living hand to mouth, can wait but I like to have the cash before I spend it,
BrabusMog said:
Tough situation for you, it will eventually be sorted out but it's very frustrating no doubt. Still, at least you've got a kid off to China and are willing to help the other who has fallen on hard times, sounds like a good family unit, fair play 
Just a bit annoying, nothing more, will always help the kids out if I can, the youngest can sod off now, he has been to Tokyo, New York, Milan and Shanghai as part of his course, not to mention his rent of £550 each month, plus all the other stuff he needs to pay for, finishes in June 
and we finish five years of paying for Uni accomodation for middle and youngest. Paying the eldests car loan until he gets his next pay grade, I will be quids in, with or without call out come June !xjay1337 said:
J4CKO said:
BrabusMog said:
Regarding your last point, I really do understand that, hence me saying it's a difficult position to be in for you. But the inter departmental wrangling over which nominal account your call out fee should be charged to is nothing to do with you and I find it highly offensive that employers sometimes hide behind bks like this as you have done your job and should be paid your money.
My thoughts entirely, appreciate the solidarity, its like trying to get something sorted between bits of BT, ring Openwhatsit and they say you need to call Wholesale or something, then vice versa ! Basically in that situaiton I don't give a flying toss, which bit, to my mind its all part of the same whole.ks like this as you have done your job and should be paid your money.Nobody is going to starve, I am quite a placid kind of chap but I will never let things lie over financial matters. I have, to my knowledge never taken advantage of anyone in that manner and I really don't take kindly to having it done to me.
Been an expensive few months, youngest has gone to China with Uni (ker-ching) eldest got made redndant from TC so sorted him out, Christmas etc so would have been nice to get the money in, but not living hand to mouth, can wait but I like to have the cash before I spend it,
Its seen as money for old rope but its our Christmas do on Friday, cant drink, cant go anywhere more than thirty mins away, phone is on, need to have the laptop with me, its like insurance.
I treat it seriously as have seen people take, take, take and then not avail themselves when required, thats not on, take the money you need to be ready and able to do what is required.
J4CKO said:
BrabusMog said:
Tough situation for you, it will eventually be sorted out but it's very frustrating no doubt. Still, at least you've got a kid off to China and are willing to help the other who has fallen on hard times, sounds like a good family unit, fair play
Just a bit annoying, nothing more, will always help the kids out if I can, the youngest can sod off now, he has been to Tokyo, New York, Milan and Shanghai as part of his course, not to mention his rent of £550 each month, plus all the other stuff he needs to pay for, finishes in June and we finish five years of paying for Uni accomodation for middle and youngest. Paying the eldests car loan until he gets his next pay grade, I will be quids in, with or without call out come June !
And once you're off the hook for the kids, you can have a couple extra holidays a year haha
BrabusMog said:
J4CKO said:
BrabusMog said:
Tough situation for you, it will eventually be sorted out but it's very frustrating no doubt. Still, at least you've got a kid off to China and are willing to help the other who has fallen on hard times, sounds like a good family unit, fair play
Just a bit annoying, nothing more, will always help the kids out if I can, the youngest can sod off now, he has been to Tokyo, New York, Milan and Shanghai as part of his course, not to mention his rent of £550 each month, plus all the other stuff he needs to pay for, finishes in June and we finish five years of paying for Uni accomodation for middle and youngest. Paying the eldests car loan until he gets his next pay grade, I will be quids in, with or without call out come June !And once you're off the hook for the kids, you can have a couple extra holidays a year haha
Not heard a peep since, just not going to mention it this year then, if nothing transpires, deal with it in the New Year, a little more insistently...
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