Boss not approving Holiday as a have a young child?

[The Selfish Gene]

surely though contracted holiday is an entitlement , and you can use it for what you want.

If later you have an emergency, then it's non of boss's business.

I wouldn't dream of having that sort of condition for any of my staff, regardless of any status of the business.

I never say no to holiday unless several people want to go at the same time and then I would try and manage a solution rather than give some terrible (and illegal) reason.

[snobetter]

Would working longer hours for 4 days suit both?

Would they try and replace you for the time you reduce, if so would covering 2 days a week be easier for them and an option for you?

[dhutch]

snobetter said:

Would working longer hours for 4 days suit both?

Not really, as I need to do nursery pick up before and after work. I could do 90% hours over 4days maybe but it starts getting tight and inflexible fast.

[dhutch]

The Selfish Gene said:

Surely though contracted holiday is an entitlement , and you can use it for what you want.

If later you have an emergency, then it's non of boss's business.

I wouldn't dream of having that sort of condition for any of my staff, regardless of any status of the business.

I never say no to holiday unless several people want to go at the same time and then I would try and manage a solution rather than give some terrible (and illegal) reason.

Indeed!

[asfault]

dhutch said:

cookie1600 said:

dhutch said:

Our normal HR manager only works Tue-Thurs,.

Who sanctioned that then??!!! lol

The Irony that the person managing my failed four day working request, works three days a week, is not lost on me.
Apparently its always been a 3-day per week role, for historic reasons, before the HR dept became more merged.
Presumably she likes it so had stuck with it.... doesnt even have kids. Sigh!

Don't make the mistake of saying "you don't have kids you don't understand"
anyone without kids time off is just as important as those with.
Otherwise you end up in the situation of employees with children dictating the hours they work and everyone else get left with the undesirable shifts.


Why is your childcare tues wed? can it not be thur fri then you can work those days. Also asking for every wed of will be seen less by others as you wanting a long weekend off?

[RayDonovan]

It's tough but I can see both sides of the argument.

From your line managers perspective, you want every Friday off work, the business haven't proceeded with the flexi working (which is their right) so you've booked Fridays off as annual leave instead.

Whilst employers have legal obligations around childcare etc, they also have an obligation around ensuing work is completed and teams aren't struggling to cover work because someone in the team doesn't fancy working a Friday.

My only advice is to make sure any further actions on your behalf can't be seen as spiteful (also remember that HR work for the interest of the business and not you). I've had a few instances with similar-ish situations where HR backed me all the way when employees tried to self modify their working patterns to suit children.

[dhutch]

asfault said:

Don't make the mistake of saying "you don't have kids you don't understand" anyone without kids time off is just as important as those with.

For clarity, I have not and would never use that line, and am very happy for her to work whatever hours she wants. The comment was more tonge in cheek than anything else, but yes, point taken and worth saying.

asfault said:

Why is your childcare tues wed? can it not be thur fri then you can work those days. Also asking for every wed of will be seen less by others as you wanting a long weekend off?

Childcare is tue/wed/thurs, wife had Mondays off currently, I have Fridays off.

Work showed no preference for which day I had as non-working, and if anything suggested the Friday, which worked for me.
But yes, I would be happy to have my non-working day on another day of the week if that improved anything for anyone, and have offered this.
My wife is also likely to move to working Mondays and having her day off on Tues or Friday as she changes team in March.

[ATG]

RayDonovan said:

... the business haven't proceeded with the flexi working (which is their right) ...

It isn't an absolute right. If an employee submits a statutory request for a flexible working arrangement the employer must give it proper consideration and only reject it if there is an unavoidable material impact on the business. Clearly if a business process requires a fixed head count to be available at a given time, then flexible working is unlikely to be an option. But something like "rejected because we just don't like the idea" isn't adequate.

[RayDonovan]

ATG said:

RayDonovan said:

... the business haven't proceeded with the flexi working (which is their right) ...

It isn't an absolute right. If an employee submits a statutory request for a flexible working arrangement the employer must give it proper consideration and only reject it if there is an unavoidable material impact on the business. Clearly if a business process requires a fixed head count to be available at a given time, then flexible working is unlikely to be an option. But something like "rejected because we just don't like the idea" isn't adequate.

The business will just make something up about there being a impact to the business. Same as HR function in any business that will flex the rules to suit their agenda, not the employees.

[Shnozz]

RayDonovan said:

ATG said:

RayDonovan said:

... the business haven't proceeded with the flexi working (which is their right) ...

It isn't an absolute right. If an employee submits a statutory request for a flexible working arrangement the employer must give it proper consideration and only reject it if there is an unavoidable material impact on the business. Clearly if a business process requires a fixed head count to be available at a given time, then flexible working is unlikely to be an option. But something like "rejected because we just don't like the idea" isn't adequate.

The business will just make something up about there being a impact to the business. Same as HR function in any business that will flex the rules to suit their agenda, not the employees.

Agreed - but not “their right” as you said. More a fudge to get the outcome they desire.

[dhutch]

Shnozz said:

RayDonovan said:

ATG said:

RayDonovan said:

... the business haven't proceeded with the flexi working (which is their right) ...

It isn't an absolute right. If an employee submits a statutory request for a flexible working arrangement the employer must give it proper consideration and only reject it if there is an unavoidable material impact on the business. Clearly if a business process requires a fixed head count to be available at a given time, then flexible working is unlikely to be an option. But something like "rejected because we just don't like the idea" isn't adequate.

The business will just make something up about there being a impact to the business. Same as HR function in any business that will flex the rules to suit their agenda, not the employees.

Agreed - but not “their right” as you said. More a fudge to get the outcome they desire.

Yeah, been round this loop.

The request was a statutory one, which they have (after the trail) now declined.

As suggested, you can put almost anything down....
- detrimental impact on performance
- unable to make arrangements to re-organise work
- inappropriate because of planned organisational changes

[dhutch]

Still nothing from HR, but I managed to speak to my boss half an hour ago.

He is suggesting they might reject my annual leave, and or try and make me carry it over into Jan or pay me for working it, because we're busy with important project work.

As 5 of my annual leave days are a 2% bonus taken as holiday, I don’t know if I am legally entitled to them like I would be for statutory days.

Then

Just now he has approved this Friday AL! Having also failed to get hold of anyone at HR today, but is going to 'pick it up with HR in regards to the remaining days'.

We're talking about two days leave now, to complete a prepaid for parent and toddler class and provide childcare for my daughter.

What total dicks.

[Squadrone Rosso]

Public or Private sector?

[raceboy]

As one of my previous superiors used to tell me, if you run out of holidays you always have sick days, and they don't need booking.
Obviously it'll mark your card a bit, but a bit of 'sickness and diarrhoea' is always good for a couple of days off, then you've already laid the ground work for unlimited time off with 'stress', and a 'bad back' is always good for a week off.
If you are complying with the rules in your contract regarding booking holidays I really can't see what grounds he has to not sign them off, regardless of the reasons for the holidays, I wouldn't be telling him the truth anyway,
"why do you want the day off"
"personal" .... "interview" .... "operation" .... "shopping" .... "all day bender" ..... "seeing my mistress"
What I do with 'my time' is no concern of my employer, if the above advise impacts on your employment status I hold no responsibility .

[Muzzer79]

dhutch said:

Still nothing from HR, but I managed to speak to my boss half an hour ago.

He is suggesting they might reject my annual leave, and or try and make me carry it over into Jan or pay me for working it, because we're busy with important project work.

As 5 of my annual leave days are a 2% bonus taken as holiday, I don’t know if I am legally entitled to them like I would be for statutory days.

Then

Just now he has approved this Friday AL! Having also failed to get hold of anyone at HR today, but is going to 'pick it up with HR in regards to the remaining days'.

We're talking about two days leave now, to complete a prepaid for parent and toddler class and provide childcare for my daughter.

What total dicks.

You need to look at this objectively.

You say yourself you're busy with important project work - your boss therefore has targets that need to be achieved.

He's probably not covering himself in glory in terms of how he's handling it with you, but you need to stop looking at this as "only two days leave" and your own reasons for it and look at what compromises there are to keep everyone happy.

Not every boss is perfect - sometimes they need help, it's a two way street sometimes. We'd all like someone perfect who never makes mistakes and keeps everyone happy but, in reality, they are very rare if they even exist at all.

[StuTheGrouch]

dhutch said:

Still nothing from HR, but I managed to speak to my boss half an hour ago.

He is suggesting they might reject my annual leave, and or try and make me carry it over into Jan or pay me for working it, because we're busy with important project work.

As 5 of my annual leave days are a 2% bonus taken as holiday, I don’t know if I am legally entitled to them like I would be for statutory days.

Then

Just now he has approved this Friday AL! Having also failed to get hold of anyone at HR today, but is going to 'pick it up with HR in regards to the remaining days'.

We're talking about two days leave now, to complete a prepaid for parent and toddler class and provide childcare for my daughter.

What total dicks.

It looks like he is now approving this as you're clearly not going to drop it, and he can't be bothered to deal with HR.

You need to think about moving jobs though.

[asfault]

raceboy said:

As one of my previous superiors used to tell me, if you run out of holidays you always have sick days, and they don't need booking.
Obviously it'll mark your card a bit, but a bit of 'sickness and diarrhoea' is always good for a couple of days off, then you've already laid the ground work for unlimited time off with 'stress', and a 'bad back' is always good for a week off.
If you are complying with the rules in your contract regarding booking holidays I really can't see what grounds he has to not sign them off, regardless of the reasons for the holidays, I wouldn't be telling him the truth anyway,
"why do you want the day off"
"personal" .... "interview" .... "operation" .... "shopping" .... "all day bender" ..... "seeing my mistress"
What I do with 'my time' is no concern of my employer, if the above advise impacts on your employment status I hold no responsibility .

Remind me never to hire you.

[raceboy]

asfault said:

Remind me never to hire you.

If you plan on being a bit of a dick about my holiday entitlement remind me not to apply for a job under you.

It's entirely cause and effect,

[dhutch]

raceboy said:

asfault said:

Remind me never to hire you.

If you plan on being a bit of a dick about my holiday entitlement remind me not to apply for a job under you.

It's entirely cause and effect,

Exactly!

[essayer]

go sick every Friday