Muslim prayer breaks at work - fair or not?
Discussion
Shaw Tarse said:
RemaL said:
IL_JDM said:
Targarama said:
We live in a multicultural/racial world. Unless this is a tiny business that can't survive, then yes Muslims should get the time to pray if they want it. Plus relevant Ramadan, Eid time off.
However, when it comes to Christmas, they should not get the same time off that Christians get.
+1However, when it comes to Christmas, they should not get the same time off that Christians get.
Edited by Targarama on Tuesday 15th September 17:39
Targarama said:
We live in a multicultural/racial world. Unless this is a tiny business that can't survive, then yes Muslims should get the time to pray if they want it. Plus relevant Ramadan, Eid time off.
However, when it comes to Christmas, they should not get the same time off that Christians get.
As an employer I disagree as I would probably have to open up for them etcHowever, when it comes to Christmas, they should not get the same time off that Christians get.
Edited by Targarama on Tuesday 15th September 17:39
Bill said:
Has this ever happened in this country?
It just strikes me that the sort of muslim who would insist on praying 5 times a day would probably not have integrated into UK society sufficiently to get a job in a non-muslim business. AFAIK the 5 prayers a day is only friday, which they would presumably prefer to take off anyway, and prayer doesn't have to be the full rug and facing east monty.
There is a petrol station back where my parents live that shuts several times a day for a few minutes while the guy lays out his rug facing east. No one can get petrol or enter the shop during this time. I'm not sure if this is just on a Friday or not though.It just strikes me that the sort of muslim who would insist on praying 5 times a day would probably not have integrated into UK society sufficiently to get a job in a non-muslim business. AFAIK the 5 prayers a day is only friday, which they would presumably prefer to take off anyway, and prayer doesn't have to be the full rug and facing east monty.
voyds9 said:
Targarama said:
We live in a multicultural/racial world. Unless this is a tiny business that can't survive, then yes Muslims should get the time to pray if they want it. Plus relevant Ramadan, Eid time off.
However, when it comes to Christmas, they should not get the same time off that Christians get.
As an employer I disagree as I would probably have to open up for them etcHowever, when it comes to Christmas, they should not get the same time off that Christians get.
Edited by Targarama on Tuesday 15th September 17:39
nonuts said:
Shaw Tarse said:
RemaL said:
IL_JDM said:
Targarama said:
We live in a multicultural/racial world. Unless this is a tiny business that can't survive, then yes Muslims should get the time to pray if they want it. Plus relevant Ramadan, Eid time off.
However, when it comes to Christmas, they should not get the same time off that Christians get.
+1However, when it comes to Christmas, they should not get the same time off that Christians get.
Edited by Targarama on Tuesday 15th September 17:39
I think there's an element of Daily Wailism creeping into some of the replies on here...
First off, for any Muslim to stop work for prayers 5 times in a day, they would have to be working quite exceptionally long shifts! The official times of prayer in London today were 04:41, 06:35, 12:56, 16:23, 19:15 and 21:04.
Secondly, in my experience, Muslims take no more than 5-10 minutes to say their prayers. Given the amount of tea breaks, fag breaks, fresh air breaks and the like that most people take during the working day, Muslims are hardly taking the piss if they take a few minutes in their lunch break and in the afternoon for prayers, are they?
Thirdly, it might be argued that people with the conscientiousness to pray on a daily basis - whatever their religion - are generally going to be conscientious in other areas of their lives, and thus possibly inclined to be more hard-working overall.
Finally, regardless of the employee, the happier they are, the harder they are likely to work. It would be a pretty short-sighted employer who pissed off his Muslim employees for the sake of a short break for prayers.
My personal experience of all of this was when visiting a reseller in Egypt. If prayers occurred during a meeting, then those who wished to pray did so, and those of us who didn't just took a quick tea break. It really didn't inconvenience anyone in the slightest degree.
First off, for any Muslim to stop work for prayers 5 times in a day, they would have to be working quite exceptionally long shifts! The official times of prayer in London today were 04:41, 06:35, 12:56, 16:23, 19:15 and 21:04.
Secondly, in my experience, Muslims take no more than 5-10 minutes to say their prayers. Given the amount of tea breaks, fag breaks, fresh air breaks and the like that most people take during the working day, Muslims are hardly taking the piss if they take a few minutes in their lunch break and in the afternoon for prayers, are they?
Thirdly, it might be argued that people with the conscientiousness to pray on a daily basis - whatever their religion - are generally going to be conscientious in other areas of their lives, and thus possibly inclined to be more hard-working overall.
Finally, regardless of the employee, the happier they are, the harder they are likely to work. It would be a pretty short-sighted employer who pissed off his Muslim employees for the sake of a short break for prayers.
My personal experience of all of this was when visiting a reseller in Egypt. If prayers occurred during a meeting, then those who wished to pray did so, and those of us who didn't just took a quick tea break. It really didn't inconvenience anyone in the slightest degree.
quite simply, it should be down to the employers choice. If they want their workers to work from x o'clock to y o'clock with "x" minutes lunch break and 2 "x" minutes tea breaks, one in the morning, one in the afternoon, then any prospective employee should either accept that, or not accept the position. You want the job, you work to the contract put in front of you.
Davi said:
quite simply, it should be down to the employers choice. If they want their workers to work from x o'clock to y o'clock with "x" minutes lunch break and 2 "x" minutes tea breaks, one in the morning, one in the afternoon, then any prospective employee should either accept that, or not accept the position. You want the job, you work to the contract put in front of you.
What if you convert to islam after being in the job for a long time?Kermit power said:
I think there's an element of Daily Wailism creeping into some of the replies on here...
First off, for any Muslim to stop work for prayers 5 times in a day, they would have to be working quite exceptionally long shifts! The official times of prayer in London today were 04:41, 06:35, 12:56, 16:23, 19:15 and 21:04.
Secondly, in my experience, Muslims take no more than 5-10 minutes to say their prayers. Given the amount of tea breaks, fag breaks, fresh air breaks and the like that most people take during the working day, Muslims are hardly taking the piss if they take a few minutes in their lunch break and in the afternoon for prayers, are they?
Thirdly, it might be argued that people with the conscientiousness to pray on a daily basis - whatever their religion - are generally going to be conscientious in other areas of their lives, and thus possibly inclined to be more hard-working overall.
Finally, regardless of the employee, the happier they are, the harder they are likely to work. It would be a pretty short-sighted employer who pissed off his Muslim employees for the sake of a short break for prayers.
My personal experience of all of this was when visiting a reseller in Egypt. If prayers occurred during a meeting, then those who wished to pray did so, and those of us who didn't just took a quick tea break. It really didn't inconvenience anyone in the slightest degree.
Priceless response First off, for any Muslim to stop work for prayers 5 times in a day, they would have to be working quite exceptionally long shifts! The official times of prayer in London today were 04:41, 06:35, 12:56, 16:23, 19:15 and 21:04.
Secondly, in my experience, Muslims take no more than 5-10 minutes to say their prayers. Given the amount of tea breaks, fag breaks, fresh air breaks and the like that most people take during the working day, Muslims are hardly taking the piss if they take a few minutes in their lunch break and in the afternoon for prayers, are they?
Thirdly, it might be argued that people with the conscientiousness to pray on a daily basis - whatever their religion - are generally going to be conscientious in other areas of their lives, and thus possibly inclined to be more hard-working overall.
Finally, regardless of the employee, the happier they are, the harder they are likely to work. It would be a pretty short-sighted employer who pissed off his Muslim employees for the sake of a short break for prayers.
My personal experience of all of this was when visiting a reseller in Egypt. If prayers occurred during a meeting, then those who wished to pray did so, and those of us who didn't just took a quick tea break. It really didn't inconvenience anyone in the slightest degree.
Stevenj214 said:
Davi said:
quite simply, it should be down to the employers choice. If they want their workers to work from x o'clock to y o'clock with "x" minutes lunch break and 2 "x" minutes tea breaks, one in the morning, one in the afternoon, then any prospective employee should either accept that, or not accept the position. You want the job, you work to the contract put in front of you.
What if you convert to islam after being in the job for a long time?
t. You sign up to work for an employer on his terms, you accept those terms, you work to those terms or leave to find alternative employment. Why the hell should a business be made to compromise just because you want to bend a knee to some new imaginary friend?!Only one thing I hate more than employers that take the piss, and that is employees that take the piss, somehow think they are doing their boss a favour by turning up.
Last company I was at I hired a guy into our team who asked to have a bit of extra time on Fridays to go to Mosque, not an issue at all as he never took long lunch breaks and was a great worker. Couldn't really argue as we also had a few orthadox Jews in the team who needed to disapear early on a Friday during the winter.
He used to find a private office sometime and pray, not sure if he did it 5 times a day or not but I think so. Made no difference as he never seemed to be gone for more than a few mins. Of course, we could have hired someone else who did not have those requirements but we liked him, wanted him in the team and he worked really hard generally anyway. As I saw it, we gave him a little consideration and in return, he would do the same for us but making sure he did not abouse it and did not take long lunch hours etc. Nothing was ever agreed formally, just worked that way. I don't see an issue with it at all unless for some reason the job makes it impossible to have that flexibility. Perhaps being a cop or something might be a tad tough I suppose.
We all have personal requirements be they faith based or otherwise and as long as they dont negativly impact the overall business I don't see a problem with showing a little consideration. It has the added benefit that if you are nice to staff, they tend to work hard and be loyal back.
He used to find a private office sometime and pray, not sure if he did it 5 times a day or not but I think so. Made no difference as he never seemed to be gone for more than a few mins. Of course, we could have hired someone else who did not have those requirements but we liked him, wanted him in the team and he worked really hard generally anyway. As I saw it, we gave him a little consideration and in return, he would do the same for us but making sure he did not abouse it and did not take long lunch hours etc. Nothing was ever agreed formally, just worked that way. I don't see an issue with it at all unless for some reason the job makes it impossible to have that flexibility. Perhaps being a cop or something might be a tad tough I suppose.
We all have personal requirements be they faith based or otherwise and as long as they dont negativly impact the overall business I don't see a problem with showing a little consideration. It has the added benefit that if you are nice to staff, they tend to work hard and be loyal back.
Davi said:
Stevenj214 said:
Davi said:
quite simply, it should be down to the employers choice. If they want their workers to work from x o'clock to y o'clock with "x" minutes lunch break and 2 "x" minutes tea breaks, one in the morning, one in the afternoon, then any prospective employee should either accept that, or not accept the position. You want the job, you work to the contract put in front of you.
What if you convert to islam after being in the job for a long time?t. You sign up to work for an employer on his terms, you accept those terms, you work to those terms or leave to find alternative employment. Why the hell should a business be made to compromise just because you want to bend a knee to some new imaginary friend?!Only one thing I hate more than employers that take the piss, and that is employees that take the piss, somehow think they are doing their boss a favour by turning up.
Kermit power said:
Davi said:
Stevenj214 said:
Davi said:
quite simply, it should be down to the employers choice. If they want their workers to work from x o'clock to y o'clock with "x" minutes lunch break and 2 "x" minutes tea breaks, one in the morning, one in the afternoon, then any prospective employee should either accept that, or not accept the position. You want the job, you work to the contract put in front of you.
What if you convert to islam after being in the job for a long time?t. You sign up to work for an employer on his terms, you accept those terms, you work to those terms or leave to find alternative employment. Why the hell should a business be made to compromise just because you want to bend a knee to some new imaginary friend?!Only one thing I hate more than employers that take the piss, and that is employees that take the piss, somehow think they are doing their boss a favour by turning up.
BigAlinEmbra said:
Kermit power said:
Davi said:
Stevenj214 said:
Davi said:
quite simply, it should be down to the employers choice. If they want their workers to work from x o'clock to y o'clock with "x" minutes lunch break and 2 "x" minutes tea breaks, one in the morning, one in the afternoon, then any prospective employee should either accept that, or not accept the position. You want the job, you work to the contract put in front of you.
What if you convert to islam after being in the job for a long time?t. You sign up to work for an employer on his terms, you accept those terms, you work to those terms or leave to find alternative employment. Why the hell should a business be made to compromise just because you want to bend a knee to some new imaginary friend?!Only one thing I hate more than employers that take the piss, and that is employees that take the piss, somehow think they are doing their boss a favour by turning up.
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