Trials of Finding New Job
Discussion
oldbanger said:
In defence of testing etc. I use cognitive skills tests and a short written exam with only two questions when hiring. I come from an industry where this is common for some technical roles, anyway, so have carried this on having moved to another similar field. I have found that I can’t rely on cvs - people can look great on paper and use the right jargon at interview but then can’t even tackle basic questions (I regularly get people not even trying and I have made sure the answers are clear if you know the basic techniques)
All candidates who show up (and some don’t) get detailed feedback though.
Problem here, is that most interviewers are managers who've never actually done the job.All candidates who show up (and some don’t) get detailed feedback though.
For example I attended an interview at an electronics company, the manager had NEVER been hands on, a career manager, but he had an OU degree in electronic engineering. He immediately starts asking me to solve electronics related maths equations, ohms law, kirchhoff's law, all that stuff I did 20 years ago and have NEVER needed to use and dare NEVER will. I don't fill my head with useless maths formulas. So he puts a circuit in front of me and asks me to give him the voltage and current values at each point, I glance at the paper and I write down the answers, it wasn't difficult, I just used experience, no calculations needed. He's not happy with this, he says he wants to see my "working out" (I mean what is this, f**king high school 1995???), to which I replied "well.... I didn't need to, I've seen roughly those numbers before, it's right though isn't it?", he knew it was right, I think he thought I was cheating by not doing it the "academic way".
Point is, interviews are rarely run by people who know the job, so the questions tend to be designed to catch out blaggers, but they actually ask stuff that experienced people just don't need, don't use and probably never will, AND which the blaggers will almost certainly have brushed up on before the interview.
On the other hand i've been in interviews with engineers (and got the job), where we've just had a really cool conversation, no real questions, they could tell I knew my stuff just from the chat we had.
funkyrobot said:
HistoricBM said:
applied for a senior level role recently.....
28th September
Thank you for your application for the role of ....
We appreciate the time and effort taken in submitting your application.
After careful consideration, we regret to inform you that we are not progressing with your application on this occasion.
1st October
Congratulations! You have been progressed forward in the recruitment process and next we would like you to complete the assessments detailed in the table below....
28th September
Thank you for your application for the role of ....
We appreciate the time and effort taken in submitting your application.
After careful consideration, we regret to inform you that we are not progressing with your application on this occasion.
1st October
Congratulations! You have been progressed forward in the recruitment process and next we would like you to complete the assessments detailed in the table below....
Prohibiting said:
Sorry if I've missed this earlier in the thread:
OP, which county of the UK do you live? If you're anywhere near Gloucestershire, I can put you in touch with a genuinely decent recruiter who managed to secure me a job and always got back to me!
Hi! Am enjoying this thread but thought I'd "pop in" to ask in what field/s your guy operates, please?OP, which county of the UK do you live? If you're anywhere near Gloucestershire, I can put you in touch with a genuinely decent recruiter who managed to secure me a job and always got back to me!
Just had an offer dropped because of a delay in returning paperwork.
Was for a big company, lots of security paperwork, and my work history is often hard to trial, lots of contracts, partly my fault for not keeping enough records of agencies etc.
But anyway. Offer was only a month ago, received paperwork, it never works online properly so had to do it all by post. They had it for quite a while then I get frantic calls late last week to go over it all, check everything, found a few errors.
They sent it all back for corrections (Happens all the time), then yesterday I am told by the agency guy about his deadline not mine, it was all sent today special delivery.
Email received an hour ago saying offer been taken away because of delays with security paperwork, no mention of the weeks they had it, apparently, the agent that recruited me left, and I basically got ignored, perhaps should have rung them, but been in this situation countless times and presumed it was just waiting for references and other checks.
Feel a little hard done by, I could have done things quicker, but as I say, these things always take weeks, and to be dropped because of a guy leaving? Sounds a little harsh. Plus the company were very pedantic and oversights other similar firms would ignore were not able to be.
Sounds to me like they panicked late last week, I was away from Friday morning, could do nothing over weekend and was not told of any deadline or urgency and then the rug is pulled.
Was for a big company, lots of security paperwork, and my work history is often hard to trial, lots of contracts, partly my fault for not keeping enough records of agencies etc.
But anyway. Offer was only a month ago, received paperwork, it never works online properly so had to do it all by post. They had it for quite a while then I get frantic calls late last week to go over it all, check everything, found a few errors.
They sent it all back for corrections (Happens all the time), then yesterday I am told by the agency guy about his deadline not mine, it was all sent today special delivery.
Email received an hour ago saying offer been taken away because of delays with security paperwork, no mention of the weeks they had it, apparently, the agent that recruited me left, and I basically got ignored, perhaps should have rung them, but been in this situation countless times and presumed it was just waiting for references and other checks.
Feel a little hard done by, I could have done things quicker, but as I say, these things always take weeks, and to be dropped because of a guy leaving? Sounds a little harsh. Plus the company were very pedantic and oversights other similar firms would ignore were not able to be.
Sounds to me like they panicked late last week, I was away from Friday morning, could do nothing over weekend and was not told of any deadline or urgency and then the rug is pulled.
HistoricBM said:
ToothbrushMan said:
what an unholy mess. that just goes to show what we are dealing with..............i doubt its an isolated response. To them we are just a 0 or a 1 in some algorithm.
Second time. About to give them a call to ask them what they want me to do.Just been let down (final candidate for a pretty senior role) on a process that has taken nearly 3 months! Company is reavaluating and the position is on indefinite hold.
Attended a (large company) recruitment day. Mostly telling me about a company i knew all about. Talked to a head of department and all he could really say was along the lines of 'with all that experience you could easily do my job' and 'i don't think we are looking for people with that much competence'. They were right, particularly for design, engineering etc most of these 'consultancies' have page after page of STEM jobs advertised.
Another:
"Unfortunately you’ve either not completed your online test within the given time period or let us know that you're no longer interested in the above role, so we’ve had to withdraw your application."
Shame i had not been notified there was a test to do! I've informed them but no response thus far.
The email telling me to do the assessment arrived a day later, after the assessment deadline had passed.
I used to do the technical part of the interview for some of our contract roles.
It was rare I ever had to actually ask any properly technical questions. We would have a chat about experience and I could just tell from the language they used what sort of level they were at. there were lots of little tells, proper names for things vs the slang most people used. The real-world way of doing things vs the classroom way.
Only once did I need to get into proper technical questions as what the guy was telling me just didn't ring true. Mind you, being a small industry you know a lot of people and when someone says I deployed "x" and you can ask, "so you know Bill" can get them caught out. Doing low level data fill is not the same as being the technical Architect on a project as you claim....
It was rare I ever had to actually ask any properly technical questions. We would have a chat about experience and I could just tell from the language they used what sort of level they were at. there were lots of little tells, proper names for things vs the slang most people used. The real-world way of doing things vs the classroom way.
Only once did I need to get into proper technical questions as what the guy was telling me just didn't ring true. Mind you, being a small industry you know a lot of people and when someone says I deployed "x" and you can ask, "so you know Bill" can get them caught out. Doing low level data fill is not the same as being the technical Architect on a project as you claim....
to the chap ^ chunder27 who had his offer pulled........in my head I am thinking as the employer "we've found the right person". just because paperwork was delayed is no reason to just pull the offer. The job is I presume still needing to be filled (unless of course they are glad the agency messed up as this has perhaps allowed them to get out of the whole offering you the job melee they find themselves in for whatever reason).......
If the agency has messed up by sitting on your papers for 3 weeks because a guy there had left then I'm sorry I would say that agency have potentially cost you that job and that they should be answerable. If that doesnt constitute professional negligence then I dont know what would.
First up did you have the offer in writing on the employers letterhead or on the agents letterhead or in email form? Had you verbally accepted and do you know if that was conveyed by the guy that recently left leaving you in limbo?
I know people and I would do the same who on receipt of a firm job offer would maybe book a late holiday or treat themselves to a weekend away of book a meal or something maybe replace the broken washing machine or boiler on the strength that youve got a nice salary coming in ahead of you so the heat is off financially. If youve done similar thinking the agency had it all under control and theyve Flocked it up then I would go gunning for them if they cannot get the employer to reason with them and reinstate the offer. Is the job still there? Is it the employer who has said its pulled or only the agencies word that its been pulled Ie; was there ever really an offer?
I had an offer taken off me in 1996. The reason was it was subject to completion of a proper application form and the letter that came with the form back then clearly stated "you have 14 days to complete and return this form otherwise our offer will automatically terminate" I sat on it for 7 days and got a letter saying offer pulled! I filled my pants as I had resigned from my other job. Anyway the employer was very understanding (back then you could actually telephone the guy who had sent me the form who would be the line manager) so he was very apologetic and said no sweat send it in tomorrow and all sorted.
If the agency has messed up by sitting on your papers for 3 weeks because a guy there had left then I'm sorry I would say that agency have potentially cost you that job and that they should be answerable. If that doesnt constitute professional negligence then I dont know what would.
First up did you have the offer in writing on the employers letterhead or on the agents letterhead or in email form? Had you verbally accepted and do you know if that was conveyed by the guy that recently left leaving you in limbo?
I know people and I would do the same who on receipt of a firm job offer would maybe book a late holiday or treat themselves to a weekend away of book a meal or something maybe replace the broken washing machine or boiler on the strength that youve got a nice salary coming in ahead of you so the heat is off financially. If youve done similar thinking the agency had it all under control and theyve Flocked it up then I would go gunning for them if they cannot get the employer to reason with them and reinstate the offer. Is the job still there? Is it the employer who has said its pulled or only the agencies word that its been pulled Ie; was there ever really an offer?
I had an offer taken off me in 1996. The reason was it was subject to completion of a proper application form and the letter that came with the form back then clearly stated "you have 14 days to complete and return this form otherwise our offer will automatically terminate" I sat on it for 7 days and got a letter saying offer pulled! I filled my pants as I had resigned from my other job. Anyway the employer was very understanding (back then you could actually telephone the guy who had sent me the form who would be the line manager) so he was very apologetic and said no sweat send it in tomorrow and all sorted.
Edited by ToothbrushMan on Tuesday 2nd October 16:49
Now I’m convinced there’s a disconnect between HR departments and reality.
Just spoke to a mate, we shared a desk for 18 years doing the same job.
Exactly the same job.
He was phoned by an organisation who we both used to speak to who asked him to apply for a job, they said they were having a hell of a time finding people with relevant experience.
I applied for the same job a few weeks ago and got a standard rejection from a no-reply email address.
I’ll be genuinely chuffed for my mate if he gets it, but ffs, what do you have to do to get your cv in front of the right person?
I really believe that applying cold (ie via a careers page) just isn’t worth the bother, either that or there’s a spelling mistake on my cv which has been autocorrected to read “I piss in the coffee pot of every office I work in”...
Just spoke to a mate, we shared a desk for 18 years doing the same job.
Exactly the same job.
He was phoned by an organisation who we both used to speak to who asked him to apply for a job, they said they were having a hell of a time finding people with relevant experience.
I applied for the same job a few weeks ago and got a standard rejection from a no-reply email address.
I’ll be genuinely chuffed for my mate if he gets it, but ffs, what do you have to do to get your cv in front of the right person?
I really believe that applying cold (ie via a careers page) just isn’t worth the bother, either that or there’s a spelling mistake on my cv which has been autocorrected to read “I piss in the coffee pot of every office I work in”...
In answer to toothbrush.
I have spoken to the agency, they are blaming me for taking too long. Because of the person leaving the new agent was unaware of the dealings I had to deal with why i could not complete the DBS check, this was for some unknown reason, I thought it was council tax, then electoral roll, and the waiting time was for this reason, as reported to the agent who left.
So that took quite a while, then was hurriedly sorting stuff out last week and this only tin find the company took back the offer, I was never informed of any deadline on my part, and was able to explain any delays.
Fair enough I did not do everything as soon as I found out or received the info, so that's a lesson to learn, but even so the job was offered, via an agency, and the company are saying I took too long to complete the paperwork.
I now fund references have not been attained, Iw as not informed of this. Nor of any impending job deal closure.
The agency is Morson
One ot avoid
I have spoken to the agency, they are blaming me for taking too long. Because of the person leaving the new agent was unaware of the dealings I had to deal with why i could not complete the DBS check, this was for some unknown reason, I thought it was council tax, then electoral roll, and the waiting time was for this reason, as reported to the agent who left.
So that took quite a while, then was hurriedly sorting stuff out last week and this only tin find the company took back the offer, I was never informed of any deadline on my part, and was able to explain any delays.
Fair enough I did not do everything as soon as I found out or received the info, so that's a lesson to learn, but even so the job was offered, via an agency, and the company are saying I took too long to complete the paperwork.
I now fund references have not been attained, Iw as not informed of this. Nor of any impending job deal closure.
The agency is Morson
One ot avoid
HistoricBM said:
An upside of not working, one is able to conjure up some interesting lunches that you would not ordinarily have if you were working. I've tried all sorts of varieties of fish finger sandwiches! Should really start another thread!
My home baking has excelled while I've been off work. Bullett said:
Never resign until you have a signed contract in your hand.
Easy to say, sometimes difficult to put into place.I had to leave my last job. If I didn't, I would have has a breakdown. I also tried to make people aware of my plight via the grievance process. I was literally ignored.
HistoricBM said:
Just completed another set of personality, verbal/numerical reasoning tests. These appear to be quite prevalent now. Not really had to do any since I
graduated 20 odd years ago! Another part of the in vogue mechanistic approach taken now to dwindle the field down with minimal human intervention. Some are quite long (and tedious) - 100 personality questions, one soon loses focus....and will to live.
I did similar for a job I applied for on Thursday. I did a 10 minute reading test, a 10 minute maths test, a 30 minute situation/scenario test and a 138 question personality test. I did this in just over an hour, but you should leave an hour and a half. Was hard work. graduated 20 odd years ago! Another part of the in vogue mechanistic approach taken now to dwindle the field down with minimal human intervention. Some are quite long (and tedious) - 100 personality questions, one soon loses focus....and will to live.
Been reading this thread since it started and share the frustrations. Made redundant from a large global corporation after nearly 20 years and trying to find something has proved more difficult than I could imagine. Some of it has been my fault (hindsight is wonderful) but as others have stated the recruitment processes for a lot of jobs is difficult, possibly broken and in a number of case unprofessional.
This evening I was at my parents who live nearby and they have leaflets from the Royal Mail regarding temporary work for Christmas. I'm not keen but can't be picky either and as there is a main sorting / delivery centre (where the leaflet came from) about 4 miles away I went online via the specific link. They listed nearly a 100 entries for Christmas vacancies at various locations. But none for the centre local to me and the nearest is a 20 to 30 mile roundtrip. Seems a waste of time and money sending out leaflets to an area where there are no vacancies.
But if anyone is interested the link is below, if you do apply you will need to enter "Leaflet" when they ask where you found the role, or you just enter "irritated bloke on the net gave me the link"!
https://christmasrecruitment.royalmailgroup.com
This evening I was at my parents who live nearby and they have leaflets from the Royal Mail regarding temporary work for Christmas. I'm not keen but can't be picky either and as there is a main sorting / delivery centre (where the leaflet came from) about 4 miles away I went online via the specific link. They listed nearly a 100 entries for Christmas vacancies at various locations. But none for the centre local to me and the nearest is a 20 to 30 mile roundtrip. Seems a waste of time and money sending out leaflets to an area where there are no vacancies.
But if anyone is interested the link is below, if you do apply you will need to enter "Leaflet" when they ask where you found the role, or you just enter "irritated bloke on the net gave me the link"!
https://christmasrecruitment.royalmailgroup.com
Got a call off a recruiter yesterday. Mentioned about a job in the west mids she was collecting candidates for - told me nothing else then waffled on for a bit then “added me to their DB”. Pretty confident there was no job was just a name collecting excercise.
Got called from another agency today - knew nothing of my job even though on my CV - again was appearing to read it while talking to me.
Wants me to come in for a chat so they can then “know me so they can sell me” to clients. Asked salary then was then on about she works in day rates to tried to convert it in her head. I suspect she wants to line my up for contracts - not interested want a proper PAYE job. No job info offered so assume wants to just punt me to as many companies on a low day rate to get me through the door (probably punting on me not being up on contracting - which she’s half right really).
Might tell her I’m not bothering coming in - been contacted before by the same agency and there were none of these hoops to jump through.
Got called from another agency today - knew nothing of my job even though on my CV - again was appearing to read it while talking to me.
Wants me to come in for a chat so they can then “know me so they can sell me” to clients. Asked salary then was then on about she works in day rates to tried to convert it in her head. I suspect she wants to line my up for contracts - not interested want a proper PAYE job. No job info offered so assume wants to just punt me to as many companies on a low day rate to get me through the door (probably punting on me not being up on contracting - which she’s half right really).
Might tell her I’m not bothering coming in - been contacted before by the same agency and there were none of these hoops to jump through.
SteBrown91 said:
Got a call off a recruiter yesterday. Mentioned about a job in the west mids she was collecting candidates for - told me nothing else then waffled on for a bit then “added me to their DB”. Pretty confident there was no job was just a name collecting excercise.
Got called from another agency today - knew nothing of my job even though on my CV - again was appearing to read it while talking to me.
Wants me to come in for a chat so they can then “know me so they can sell me” to clients. Asked salary then was then on about she works in day rates to tried to convert it in her head. I suspect she wants to line my up for contracts - not interested want a proper PAYE job. No job info offered so assume wants to just punt me to as many companies on a low day rate to get me through the door (probably punting on me not being up on contracting - which she’s half right really).
Might tell her I’m not bothering coming in - been contacted before by the same agency and there were none of these hoops to jump through.
I haven't found any recruiters that wanted to "get to know me" who actually found me a job. Got called from another agency today - knew nothing of my job even though on my CV - again was appearing to read it while talking to me.
Wants me to come in for a chat so they can then “know me so they can sell me” to clients. Asked salary then was then on about she works in day rates to tried to convert it in her head. I suspect she wants to line my up for contracts - not interested want a proper PAYE job. No job info offered so assume wants to just punt me to as many companies on a low day rate to get me through the door (probably punting on me not being up on contracting - which she’s half right really).
Might tell her I’m not bothering coming in - been contacted before by the same agency and there were none of these hoops to jump through.
I also hate recruiters on LinkedIn - they just want your network connections. I've added a few, but then removed them after a short time if they haven't found me any leads. If they aren't working for me, why do I need them?
I've had recruiters tell me "you're not worth that rate, we need to be realistic" only because they wanted to meet their quota for a job ad. Don't let anyone tell you what you are worth! You can gauge this by researching, talking to people in the field etc, recruiters aren't impartial.
I landed a job today at a huge global firm. This is my third job in a little over 3 years - spent 18 months each at the last two. I applied for this job in March, interviewed in June, and landed it today so I've been patient to say the least. I had 6 interviews over that period, got declined for one job but the rest were either positive/offer or I didn't fancy them. I probably applied for 30-40 jobs, which is a bit less than I'd done before (50 ish is about right). If you get to interview, you are almost home!
The only advice I can give is to be persistent and optimistic as hell. Optimism is about having hope for positive outcomes and it helps you to be persistent. I've always had a knack for maths and science, and I've always been a persistent guy - at uni our maths problems often took a week to crack and I loved them. Think of it as a problem and don't take a knock-back personally. The best thing to do is move on - develop a pipeline of opportunities so you're never at the point of relying on one interview/job to come to your rescue.
Getting face to face with the decision maker is almost a game of pure numbers and statistics if you're using job boards. You are much more likely to find a job through non-traditional route (e.g. through your network on linked in, recommendations, seeking out the hiring manager directly, boutique firms). Be entrepreneurial!
Also, your CV should be a continuously updated profile. I've had friends and family asking me to help them with their CV and often found they were shiny looking but lacked in substance because they didn't know themselves. The CV is a selling device - it's a lot more than just sharing information. If you don't truly understand what value you can bring and articulate that, it won't stand out. The CV is not the nicest way to sell yourself but it's all we have; the objective is to get someone to notice you so that you can sell in person! Selling and negotiation are seen as dirty words but you do it everyday without second thought - whether its your 10 year old child negotiating with you about going out, or getting a quotation from a decorator. Get used to it.
Edited by silent ninja on Tuesday 2nd October 22:08
silent ninja said:
I applied for this job in March, interviewed in June, and landed it today so I've been patient to say the least.
We had a new guy start this week from a job ad that had a closing date of September 17! My boss is grumbling that he's started a month earlier than he'd like as he's not really got the budget for him until next month 
3 people recruited from that job ad, the first started in June and I started in August. Not the speediest of organisations
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